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I'm fucking tired of this narrative where ranged champions need everything

Bultz·Nov 21, 2019·28 votes·7,728 views

I'm so tired of ranged champion receiving everything. If I am a melee champion and you are a ranged champion, in my range, I should be a terror to you, not the other way around. I'm playing Warwick or Kayn or Darius or any tank and I barely have 400 movement speed to catch my targets. I play someone like morgana and I have over 400 ms with just boots. Movement speed should go to melee champion, not Jhin so he can dick on you and you never catch him because he has a free build in . It's bullshit all of it. If your a ranged adc, you melt everyone in sight with attack speed. Pile that on with absurd damage and endless cc. Why do Ranged champion need everything? They are meant to be at the back of team fights, yet I am dueling most adcs hoping not to be kitted into the ground in two fucking seconds.

Ranged adc's have;

higher attack speed
Higher Damage
Tons of crowd control
Zero real mana costs
Most have a lot of hard CC
High movement speed and MS builds

Ranged mages have;

Tons of CC
Tons of damage, mostly burst
tons of magic pen
Higher movement speed than most Melee champions

Do you know what it's like to be hit by a ranged champions cc as a melee champion and just sit there waiting for it to end because tenacity does nothing, but all that happens is you instantly die or get popped by these people.

Melee champions need the following;

If they are not super mobile, they need ms buffs.
Ranged champions to lose damage, they are safe, they don't need pop you level of damage all game
More items with tenacity, tons more.
Tenacity to allow melee champions to avoid a percentage of CC. Just dodge it and not just lower it's length.

If you have the ranged advantage that is your sweet spot, If I am on you, you should melt me. It's not hard.

34 Comments

NaughtyWordNov 21, 201924 votes

This guy plays mostly Warwick, Darius, and Yasuo in Summoner's Rift according to match history.

Dude, you play Yasuo with 2,000,000 dashes, what the fuck are you on? You play Warwick who gets some of the largest movement speed boost in this game, what the fuck are you on?

I would say you might have a point with Darius, but then again, if he is on top of someone, especially and ADC, he will absolutely shit on them, so again, what the fuck are you on?

Ranged adc's have; higher attack speed

At the cost of being a wet paper bag.

Higher Damage

At the cost of being a wet paper bag. Why don't you build crit and attack speed and you'll be in the same spot adc's are where the overwhelming majority of them fall apart to a scuttle crab sneeze.

Tons of crowd control Most have a lot of hard CC

Hard CC? MissFortune has no hard CC$ Kaisa has no hard CC, in fact, doesn't have CC at all. Lucian has no hard CC, in fact, doesn't have CC at all. Ezreal has no hard CC, in fact, doesn't have CC at all. Twitch has no hard CC$ KogMaw has no hard CC$ Draven has no hard CC$ Sivir has no hard CC, in fact, doesn't have CC at all. Tristana has no hard CC$ Kalista has no hard CC$

$ These champions have a soft cc, things like snares (slows), knockups, etc.

Of those that do have a Hard CC Ashe on a skill shot ult Vayne situational, do try to stay away from walls. Senna if you want to count her as an ADC. Jinx has her traps Caitlyn has her traps Xayah is situational, do try to stay away from feathers Jhin technically has a hard CC, but he actually needs to hit you with some ability before hand. (I'm not counting teammates here, just kits in a vacuum) Varus on a skill shot ult

So MOST ADCs do not have a hard CC, quite a few have no CC at all, and of those that do, are either situational, easily avoided, or are skillshots on ults. So again, I've no idea what the fuck you are on about.

Zero real mana costs

Laughs in Sivir Varus

High movement speed and MS builds

The 325 club (slowest movement speed for anyone not named Janna):

Ashe Caitlyn Ezreal Jinx Kalista MissFortune Tristana Xayah

The 330 club:

Draven Jhin KogMaw Senna Twitch Varus Vayne

The 335 Club:

Kaisa Lucian Sivir

Meanwhile your champions:

Darius : 340 Warwick : 335 Yasuo : 345 Kayn : 340

The champions you mostly play are faster than all ADCs with the one exception of Warwick and he's faster than most ADCs. This is of course before his MS burst toward weakened players, most likely the ADC.

So I've no idea what you are talking about.

AnythingSupportsNov 21, 20192 votes

{quoted}

This guy plays mostly Warwick, Darius, and Yasuo in Summoner's Rift according to match history.

Dude, you play Yasuo with 2,000,000 dashes, what the fuck are you on? You play Warwick who gets some of the largest movement speed boost in this game, what the fuck are you on?

I would say you might have a point with Darius, but then again, if he is on top of someone, especially and ADC, he will absolutely shit on them, so again, what the fuck are you on?

At the cost of being a wet paper bag.

At the cost of being a wet paper bag. Why don't you build crit and attack speed and you'll be in the same spot adc's are where the overwhelming majority of them fall apart to a scuttle crab sneeze.

Hard CC? has no hard CC$ has no hard CC, in fact, doesn't have CC at all. has no hard CC, in fact, doesn't have CC at all. has no hard CC, in fact, doesn't have CC at all. has no hard CC$ has no hard CC$ has no hard CC$ has no hard CC, in fact, doesn't have CC at all. has no hard CC$ has no hard CC$

$ These champions have a soft cc, things like snares (slows), knockups, etc.

Of those that do have a Hard CC on a skill shot ult situational, do try to stay away from walls. if you want to count her as an ADC. has her traps has her traps is situational, do try to stay away from feathers technically has a hard CC, but he actually needs to hit you with some ability before hand. (I'm not counting teammates here, just kits in a vacuum) on a skill shot ult

So MOST ADCs do not have a hard CC, quite a few have no CC at all, and of those that do, are either situational, easily avoided, or are skillshots on ults. So again, I've no idea what the fuck you are on about.

Laughs in

The 325 club (slowest movement speed for anyone not named Janna):

The 330 club:

The 335 Club:

Meanwhile your champions:

: 340 : 335 : 345 : 340

The champions you mostly play are faster than all ADCs with the one exception of Warwick and he's faster than most ADCs. This is of course before his MS burst toward weakened players, most likely the ADC.

So I've no idea what you are talking about.

Draven and Tristana have hard cc BTW Draven has stand aside and trist has the ADC clump knock back version of dragon's rage

NaughtyWordNov 21, 20193 votes

{quoted}

Draven and Tristana have hard cc BTW Draven has stand aside and trist has the ADC clump knock back version of dragon's rage

A knockback is not a hard CC.

A hard CC in any game is any ability that causes loss of control or movement. Eg: A stun, a root, a sleep etc.

A knock back is a soft cc, you maintain control of your character, it is simply moved. Even if I were to give you that, MOST ADCs do not have a hard cc, so my overall point stands.

AnythingSupportsNov 21, 20192 votes

{quoted}

A knockback is not a hard CC.

A hard CC in any game is any ability that causes loss of control or movement. Eg: A stun, a root, a sleep etc.

A knock back is a soft cc, you maintain control of your character, it is simply moved. Even if I were to give you that, MOST ADCs do not have a hard cc, so my overall point stands.

I mean hard enough to proc aftershock

But yeah most don't

Pierce The VealNov 21, 20192 votes

It... it does proc aftershock.

AnythingSupportsNov 28, 20191 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pierce The Veal,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=W7WGVJZy,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-21T23:05:18.569+0000)

It... it does proc aftershock.

That's what I'm saying

NyarlathοtepNov 21, 20194 votes

{quoted}

A knockback is not a hard CC.

A hard CC in any game is any ability that causes loss of control or movement. Eg: A stun, a root, a sleep etc.

A knock back is a soft cc, you maintain control of your character, it is simply moved. Even if I were to give you that, MOST ADCs do not have a hard cc, so my overall point stands.

Actually it is hard cc. https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Crowd_control

Besides, you cant take any actions during any knockback (or airborne effect) so it is a loss of control. Yes you are moved in a direction but you still have no control over your champ.

Pika FoxNov 21, 20194 votes

{quoted}

A knockback is not a hard CC.

A hard CC in any game is any ability that causes loss of control or movement. Eg: A stun, a root, a sleep etc.

A knock back is a soft cc, you maintain control of your character, it is simply moved. Even if I were to give you that, MOST ADCs do not have a hard cc, so my overall point stands.

All displacements are coupled with stuns. Displacements are hard CC.

Heos00Nov 21, 20194 votes

And Trist is stil a trash champion even with all that, you have nothing to complain if you are playing a lane abuser like Darius. Also if you CC Draven most of the time he is just dead.

I don't know why the fuck people is complaining about adc's in this thread when they don't even have the same agency in the game as a solo laner... zzz

Daddy AntsNov 21, 20192 votes

{quoted}

This guy plays mostly Warwick, Darius, and Yasuo in Summoner's Rift according to match history.

Dude, you play Yasuo with 2,000,000 dashes, what the fuck are you on? You play Warwick who gets some of the largest movement speed boost in this game, what the fuck are you on?

I would say you might have a point with Darius, but then again, if he is on top of someone, especially and ADC, he will absolutely shit on them, so again, what the fuck are you on?

At the cost of being a wet paper bag.

At the cost of being a wet paper bag. Why don't you build crit and attack speed and you'll be in the same spot adc's are where the overwhelming majority of them fall apart to a scuttle crab sneeze.

Hard CC? has no hard CC$ has no hard CC, in fact, doesn't have CC at all. has no hard CC, in fact, doesn't have CC at all. has no hard CC, in fact, doesn't have CC at all. has no hard CC$ has no hard CC$ has no hard CC$ has no hard CC, in fact, doesn't have CC at all. has no hard CC$ has no hard CC$

$ These champions have a soft cc, things like snares (slows), knockups, etc.

Of those that do have a Hard CC on a skill shot ult situational, do try to stay away from walls. if you want to count her as an ADC. has her traps has her traps is situational, do try to stay away from feathers technically has a hard CC, but he actually needs to hit you with some ability before hand. (I'm not counting teammates here, just kits in a vacuum) on a skill shot ult

So MOST ADCs do not have a hard CC, quite a few have no CC at all, and of those that do, are either situational, easily avoided, or are skillshots on ults. So again, I've no idea what the fuck you are on about.

Laughs in

The 325 club (slowest movement speed for anyone not named Janna):

The 330 club:

The 335 Club:

Meanwhile your champions:

: 340 : 335 : 345 : 340

The champions you mostly play are faster than all ADCs with the one exception of Warwick and he's faster than most ADCs. This is of course before his MS burst toward weakened players, most likely the ADC.

So I've no idea what you are talking about.

You could count Tristana ultimate as Hard CC though.

It is a knockback, knockbacks do prevent you from doing things.

Pierce The VealNov 21, 20192 votes

Lmfao ADC main reporting in.

You play Ashe, Sivir, Morgana, Caitlyn, and Kayle (wow must suck to be melee levels 1-5 eh?). Basically multiple of the serious problem champions. Caitlyn easily kites melees. So does ashe. So does sivir. Let’s not even mention morg’s Q.

5-10 more base movement speed doesn’t make ANY difference considering by the time a melee closes the distance you will have already killed them late game, or put them at half health early game.

Without using dumb gimmicks like duskblade+electrocute melee champs don’t even have a chance to kill ranged champs unless they are ridiculously overloaded. At the end of the day, ADC’s and overpowered mages are absolutely the reason behind the bullshit you see assassins doing.

When an ADC does 1000+ damage on their autos it’s ok, but when an assassin does 500 damage on a skill at full build it’s “broken.”

This is coming from a person who plays basically everything. There is 0 incentive to ever play most melees. There is never a good reason to not just play a ranged adc or even better, a super ranged mage, and simply never interact with the enemy team.

The minimum skill required in this game belongs to adc’s right clicking at range. The maximum dps in this game goes to that same least skill requiring gameplay. Does that not sound like bull-fucking-shit to you?

FurriesAreHotNov 21, 201912 votes

I actually laughed when you made the assertion ranged ADCs have more Hard CC than melee champions.

Only a couple ADCs actually get to run mach 5 on their own, I'll use Jhin as the example. Jhin's 4 shot gimmick requires him to be more mobile since he cannot continously click people.

"They are meant to be at the back of team fights, yet I am dueling most adcs hoping not to be kitted into the ground in two fucking seconds."

Uh no shit? Ranged ADCs are fundamentally designed to kite melee characters.

2Charmnot2CharmNov 21, 20195 votes

You’re right. Its just another salty player taking things out of context again.

Heos00Nov 21, 20195 votes

Basically yes, another salty player complaining about not being able to kill an adc while he tanks his support and probably the mid laner in the middle of a teamfight, with a no gap closer champion like Darius... lol

JamareeNov 21, 20198 votes

It used to be like that in season 2, but it turns out not being able to play the game if said bruiser got in your zone wasn't fun.

Hayaishi2Nov 21, 20197 votes

OP your problem is garbage champions not marksmen.

Darius is a shit champion, he has no agency, a lot of melee champions have no problem with range. Likewise a champion like Varus has issues with everything that can easily get close to him while Kaisa doesn't.

Not every marksman is OP (Varus) just like how not every melee is garbage (Darius)

Heos00Nov 21, 20193 votes

His problem is probably trying to kill an adc in the middle of a teamfight while he gets focused by another 5 champions, then baby rage about how he got cc'ed to dead and then died without realizing that his champion is a lane abuser, 1v1 abuser at some points (early-mid game) and needs teammates with cc to succeed in teamfights, also he is not a frontline that can tank 3-5 champions at all...

Pika FoxNov 21, 20196 votes

..... Ranged champions dont have "more damage". If you build full damage, most melees would dumpster ranged champions damage wise.

Also, naut and leona are melee. Guess who wins in the CC game. Or are you trying to tell me lucian has some CC hes been holding out on us?

EnderspiderNov 21, 20194 votes

the thing is though, ranged champions have the chance to deal damage to melee champions while the melee champions still have to get in range. This means that ranged champions have way more opportunity to actually deal the damage they have than melee champions, which is why melee champions should have higher stats/more tools.

Pika FoxNov 21, 20194 votes

{quoted}

the thing is though, ranged champions have the chance to deal damage to melee champions while the melee champions still have to get in range. This means that ranged champions have way more opportunity to actually deal the damage they have than melee champions, which is why melee champions should have higher stats/more tools.

Sure.... Except most have movespeed and CC.

ThefrostyvikingNov 21, 20196 votes

OP you are so incredibly full of crap it´s actually amazing.

Your very first line about Morgana hitting 400+ MS with just boots....yeah if she runs item 3117 , anything less is false since she has 330 base movespeed.

Should i flame say a Blitzcrank Thresh Alistar for being too fking fast and it being OP if they build those item 3117 run down my KogMaw item 1001 ?

The answer is no, i should definitely not because that would be r%%%%%ed in various ways.

And then,.,...how in all the worlds are you failing to gapclose on fricking Kayn or Warwick ? Are you boosted or what? Kayn can literally run through walls to make the marksman´s positioning irrelevant while Warwick with his W+R cannot be kited by any marksmen short of Vayne or Tristana.

Of course that is assuming you arent playing blue kayn who runs at march 1-2 and then just vaporizes any lonely squishy he encounters if he´s even with them-

You know why ranged need all that CC&damage? Because if your melee ass gets on them it´s GG for them if they arent fed or havent poked you down already.

And Darius? The motherdunker who heals like 36% of his max HP with one good Q on a 3 seconds cooldown in a later teamfight? Name me one marksman with that much sustain built into their kit, or has a true damage execute built into it.

You gotta take what you get and learn to appreciate it, Riot sucks at balancing numbers but the general idea they have is often not wrong, like for instance Darius.

If it was easy for Darius to gapclose as he is now and he could shrugg of CC easily if he picked some runes&boots for it then he´d probably be the most broken melee champ there is by far, and that´s just one example.

vgamedudeNov 21, 20195 votes

This is the fundamental flaw of league and why range is broken. DOTA 2 has no such issue and has turn rates and more. Melee is strong and a melee carry is just as viable as a ranged one.

Meanwhile on league you HAVE TO HAVE a ranged auto attacker to succeed in 99.9 percent of cases. It's so dumb that people pretend like marksmen are ever weak when they are the single requirement in this game.

Tin ObliteratesNov 21, 20195 votes

You're saying you don't like a moderately fed adc face-tanking you in melee range?

AronCartmanNov 22, 20192 votes

No i think an adc facetanking darius is fine, since the R clicks from that adc took an immense amount of skill

WoonStruckNov 21, 20194 votes

Yeah. Same thing with lower ranged mages.

I know everyone hates Vlad, but you have to admit he risks more with his range than Anivia, Vel'koz, xerath, Zoe, etc. Yet, they deal more damage. And have more utility. And some of them have more base MS.

This game simply doesn't properly budget the strength of range.

Look at how much of a problem Irelia's been with her 200 melee range, as opposed to most others' 125.

Riot doesn't weigh range in a champion's power budget anymore.

2Charmnot2CharmNov 21, 20191 votes

{quoted}

Yeah. Same thing with lower ranged mages.

I know everyone hates Vlad, but you have to admit he risks more with his range than Anivia, Vel'koz, xerath, Zoe, etc. Yet, they deal more damage. And have more utility. And some of them have more base MS.

Vlad literally gains more HP as a passive and along with all his healing he has Pool and access to hourglass. He has the tools to get his job of deleting the backline done.

Meanwhile the other champions you listed will get one shot if they were within vlad range of the enemy team, so obviously they deal more damage at the cost of being more fragile.

PrinceSeikerNov 21, 20192 votes

{quoted}

Yeah. Same thing with lower ranged mages.

I know everyone hates Vlad, but you have to admit he risks more with his range than Anivia, Vel'koz, xerath, Zoe, etc. Yet, they deal more damage. And have more utility. And some of them have more base MS.

This game simply doesn't properly budget the strength of range.

Look at how much of a problem Irelia's been with her 200 melee range, as opposed to most others' 125.

Riot doesn't weigh range in a champion's power budget anymore.

Yeah but anivia risks everything with the lowest base movment speed in the game along with the slowest projectiles in the game.

Sir SaltarinNov 22, 20191 votes

I know everyone hates Vlad

Yes we do, it's nice you notice it.

The thigh guyNov 21, 20194 votes

Wow. It’s almost like most melee champions made to duel auto win against ranged champions once they get in melee. :/

koshkyraNov 22, 20194 votes

If I am a melee champion and you are a ranged champion, in my range, I should be a terror to you, not the other way around.

If you genuinely believe that ranged champions beat melee champions in melee range then you are beyond delusional.

LovelleNov 21, 20192 votes

Darius and Warwick I'll agree, but Kayn has zero issue catching targets.

NyarlathοtepNov 21, 20192 votes

I was about to comment but naughtyword covered me.

Sir SaltarinNov 22, 20192 votes

This guy Hashinshins

VesemirNov 21, 20191 votes

Make conqueror a melee keystone.

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