Worst thing about the Duskblade meta?

L Psy Kongroo·Jul 23, 2017·78 votes·3,263 views

Makes having decent vision even MORE difficult to achieve. Seriously, when 4 people on the enemy team have Duskblades and 1-2 have a sweeper plus whatever pink wards they're dropping, is there really any point to buying Sightstone at all?

More importantly, should an item whose only real counterplay is vision have the ability to also REMOVE vision? This is honestly trying my patience, it's not fun getting auto-attacked for half your HP simply because you're not playing a tank.

71 Comments

DragonSheaJul 24, 201714 votes

My fucking problem is that Duskblade is not for stealth or invisible champs such as: Talon , Zed Shaco or even Assassin type Marksman like Twitch and Vayne , but its being a fucking cheese item for someone like. MissFortune and Jhin . item 3147 is supposed to be crème de la crème of assassin items. not a goto lethality item.

TheGreatNinxJul 25, 20172 votes

Yea I miss when I could play my crit build Jhin and not get flamed for it or team fight lost which losing that team fight resulted in the enemy team winnning game and then everyone blaming me cause I went crit even though our mid laner flashed into the enemy team 5v1 allowing kled just to ult us down for the ace.

DragonSheaJul 25, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Yea I miss when I could play my crit build and not get flamed for it or team fight lost which losing that team fight resulted in the enemy team winnning game and then everyone blaming me cause I went crit even though our mid laner flashed into the enemy team 5v1 allowing kled just to ult us down for the ace.

Yeah the same, I feel like he is not really being build like he should and he is forced to get lethality because of how good it is. I don't have a problem with getting a bit of lethality, my problem is that Duskblade is meant for assassins and there are not any real Marksman lethality items around.

Bouncemaster ZacJul 24, 201712 votes

We've known for a while Riot hates vision and wants it gone. Remove buyable green wards, swap pink wards for Control wards which provide less vision but deny vision, introduce scrying plant which grants temporary vision of a huge area, but more importantly sweeps every ward in that huge area. Riot hates the concept of having good vision. They've been trying to get rid of it for 2+ seasons. Of course they added a broken item that also has a free sweeping lens. Its not a surprise at all.

SnaketitsJul 24, 201710 votes

Removing and weakening vision tools will only make immobile champions unviable to play as in a game that's infested with mobility creep. You're as good as dead if flash is on cooldown the moment the enemy jungler comes into your lane, that's extremely toxic. I absolutely despise the current direction they're taking.

BØLTJul 24, 20173 votes

They also deleted wriggles and clairvoyance...They want ppl to die fighting for pink wards, because this makes a good show. And most recently they said:

We've begun a multi-patch project to assess which vision-granting abilities should give vision, and which ones just sort of... do

First things to go:

Anivia’s W - Crystallize no longer gives vision around the cast area Trundle’s E - Pillar of Ice no longer gives vision around the cast area

The cost of keeping vision:

Ivern’s W - Brushmaker cast range changed to 1600 ⇒ 800

ElikainJul 25, 20171 votes

Wriggle's has been removed but Tracker's Knife is there to replace it. It has the same active as Sightstone (aka jungler's Wriggle's) so i see no issue with anything. The fact is, you're buying Tracker's Knife and can opt into Bloodrazor enchantment, which gives you the same passive and active of Wriggle's.

BØLTJul 25, 20171 votes

Yes but to me, and maybe some others left around, wriggle's was the ultimate split pushing tool that even allowed you to clear jungle camps faster than usual on a regular basis which also refilled your hp after most fights. What we have now is just a jungler-only husk, which is a choice of one of many jungle-only items and typically the most inferior. I mean you could still get it on splitpush capable junglers like Yi and Shyv but it doesnt even refill itself until you go to the shop LOL and those knife stats dont even help you fight so good luck dueling with that. So yea its similar to wriggles but I wouldnt call that thing a wriggle. The real wriggles had 15% lifesteal, 25 AD, 25 armor, a 90 second cooldown ward, and although they removed the RNG maim being applied to minions they made it do 100 damage on every hit to monster. It is simply worlds apart from tracker's (which you would have to pick over skirmisher/stalker now and is only for junglers) Also the real wriggle's total cost was 2000g

Dominick DestineJul 25, 20173 votes

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They also deleted wriggles and clairvoyance.

Holy shit I completely forgot about Clairvoyance.

That summoner spell was amazing.

AlmightyJul 24, 20173 votes

So, if they keep this up, League will turn into a survival-horror game.

Almighty.

Wildlife1Jul 24, 20171 votes

and the murderers would be the assassins.

The typical teenage couple that will survive through the power of love and tankyness, the bruisers and a tanks Obvious person who dies first adc Second killed any mage Might survive, but probably won't the Support

GayFluffyUnicornJul 25, 20172 votes

Because vision=less #LC$bigPlays Riot hated how safe and stale lcs games were, so vision reduced to make more people facecheck and getting caught out. Best thing is riot was like "low elo noone buys green wards anyways"... ???? Who cares what low elo does? As if it's the pinnacle of gameplay lol.

robotgameJul 25, 20171 votes

vision can slow down games alot and thats why smoke was added to dota because it allowed people to have vision but still be able to do ganks, but i dont think smoke is a healthy item for lol at this moment because of all the ways to clear vision.

aZ3R0nJul 23, 20176 votes

I personally like the blackout passive on the Duskblade. It's honestly a little overpowered if a lane can simply drop a couple stealth wards in strategic areas and refresh them as necessary, and then they are ungankable. That makes for some very boring and noneffective ganks and roams. To compensate for the strength of the blackout passive it has a fairly long cooldown, so that an assassin cannot simply roam the entire map undetected.

There's a give and take for it all. Duskblade aids and rewards stealth, but it gives absolutely no defensive measures. Catch the assassin in a web of your own, and they will be screwed.

Zone of EndlessJul 23, 201710 votes

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I personally like the blackout passive on the Duskblade. It's honestly a little overpowered if a lane can simply drop a couple stealth wards in strategic areas and refresh them as necessary, and then they are ungankable. That makes for some very boring and noneffective ganks and roams. To compensate for the strength of the blackout passive it has a fairly long cooldown, so that an assassin cannot simply roam the entire map undetected.

There's a give and take for it all. Duskblade aids and rewards stealth, but it gives absolutely no defensive measures. Catch the assassin in a web of your own, and they will be screwed.

it give no defensive measure because it is a full on offensive item. It is an extremely overloaded item for the price of only 2900g. Wards are really hard to keep on the field right now with how limited they are. Sightstone only holds 3 charges until you upgrade it and yellow trinket has a very long cooldown compared to sweeper. Control wards are also only 75g. So with the blackout passive on duskblade lasting 8 seconds you can clear a lot of wards before it disappear.

If anything it should be an active with 4 seconds duration. Now it actually involve some sort of skill when you have it.

Or just outright remove it.

aZ3R0nJul 23, 20172 votes

Or maybe you should just work on your ward placements.

Zone of EndlessJul 23, 201713 votes

[{quoted}](name=xX aZ3R0n Xx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VzQkOeTL,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2017-07-23T23:54:37.396+0000)

Or maybe you should just work on your ward placements.

Thanks for the tip. I'll keep that in mind.

Jet SettJul 24, 20177 votes

Wouldn't that mean having to ward where people with Duskblade won't see it? Which means it won't be near them, which means the ward will barely do its job?

aZ3R0nJul 24, 20171 votes

No, it means having enough of the map warded so that someone with Duskblade can't even effectively use its blackout passive. Every time they step out of a lane and the cooldown is off they find a deep ward or something near an epic objective or buff, so by the time they get to a lane it would be on cooldown. If all you're doing is warding bushes near your lane then you're doing it wrong.

RavenKouhaiJul 24, 20175 votes

Except when 3 people on the enemy team all have Duskblade they can still easily clear the map.

UgubearJul 24, 20176 votes

Okay but no ones going to mention how busted Zed is with just duskblade? Okay. Lmao.

Sexy Jack RabbitJul 24, 20172 votes

I went colorblind playing against Duskblade Zed.

KloqdqJul 24, 20171 votes

Sees a Zed go 2/13 in my game this morning.

Feels bad ;-;

DaNinadJul 24, 20171 votes

but talons fine

GayFluffyUnicornJul 25, 20171 votes

You misspelled "kha" right there.

VekknaJul 24, 20175 votes

I started buying Frostfang as my regen item in mid lane and upgrading it to EotW once the enemy team has finished their 2-3 duskblades.

I'm totally serious. It's fucking absurd, but my most successful build in lethality/DB meta is: item 2301 item 3020 item 3151 item 3285 item 3135 item 3083 item 3364 with scaling armor seals.

Ending games with 100+ vision score as the midlaner. More than enough damage to blow up an adc or assassin with duskblade. Oh, and not having to recall after being jumped on nonstop.

As stupid as it sounds to build this, what's more stupid is that Duskblade distorts the game so much that this shit actually works.

EnloctJul 24, 20172 votes

That's pretty hilarious. Who are you building this on? Just anyone?

VekknaJul 25, 20171 votes

Zyra. She hits 2750 hp at level 15.

Sire HippingtonJul 24, 20175 votes

More importantly, should an item whose only real counterplay is vision have the ability to also REMOVE vision?

Countering one's own counter seems to align with riots item concept tho. Lifesteal for example is countered by burst and/or cc, now look at lifesteal items: BT gives a shield vs burst, DD delays 30% of the burst you take, Mercurial gives some mr and a fucking cleanse...

Also, removeing vision seems to fit riots agenda, they started it in S6, followed up on it with the wardclearing plants and now they finish it with free oracles effects for everyone(really, i think at this point it's more likely to get a blackout passive on luden's than seeing it removed from duskblade)

BubblyRainbowsJul 24, 20175 votes

Personally, I just think that duskblade should, like certain other items, be restricted solely to melee characters. If it was no longer viable on ADCs, it wouldn't be as oppressive as it is now.

As a side note, I've always thought it was kind of silly that most of the core items used by ranged ADCs are swords and axes... item 3153 item 3147 item 3031 item 3071 item 3072 . Maybe I'm in the minority, but I would be fine with them expanding the items, restricting more of them from being used by melee/ranged fighters, but introducing new objects that better represent what each type of AD champ needs. And I could be wrong, but I'd imagine items would be easier to balance when you can't have ADCs picking up an item meant for melee fighters and vice versa.

AnidanJul 25, 20171 votes

Something in me tells me that the idea would meet some pretty strong resistance. You're restricting build choice and confining it artificially because "balance is hard." If you thought people had problems with stale builds before, imagine when the ranged AD Carry is buying the pre-set items specially designated for his class literally because they were made just for him and thus he has the greatest synergy with them and thus he has no reason to ever change up his build except in random screw-around matches--but don't get too wild now, a lot of options are closed off, so be creative, but not too creative because we've already defined what you can and cannot have. I've already seen people in both League and DotA2 essentially say that most of the roster on League just buys whatever everyone else is buying because it's mathematically the best since items largely function as stat-sticks, and I'd rather not see that complaint become even more justified and true.

BubblyRainbowsJul 25, 20171 votes

I was talking more about EXPANDING the item lists, and restricting some items to one type or another. There are already a few items restricted to melee/ranged... I think item 3074 item 3085 item 3748 are the only ones so far. But would it really kill item build creativity if they were to restrict item 3072 , item 3071 and item 3147 to all melee only (these are just off the top of my head, not for any specific reason), and then they created three items for ranged AD characters that better catered to their strengths? And personally, I'd like to see them add way more than just three for either side. I'm all for expanding item builds. I don't think there's enough choice as it is, and certain items are just so much better than others that I find myself building the same 5 items on specific types of characters most games, with the sixth (or usually the 3rd, if you want to go chronologically) depending on what I'm against.

RexxieeJul 23, 20174 votes

The worst thing is that they'll gut duskblade, lethality will go back to the dumpster and tanks will stay broken for another half season.

Sexy Jack RabbitJul 24, 20172 votes

Nah. They'll just gut Duskblade like it needs to be right now until they can figure out a way to make it balanced, not OP or UP. Edge of Night and Youmuu's are fine since the buffs.

Gone by NightJul 24, 20172 votes

They need to make duskblade a lot less effective on ranged champions...

Sexy Jack RabbitJul 24, 20173 votes

It's not balanced on anyone right now. Zed is disgusting, so is Yi and basically any other champion who builds it. The item needs serious adjustments, not just for ranged.

KairoptraJul 24, 20171 votes

Don't worry, the damage is getting nerfed and even more so for ranged. In addition, the slow is being removed for ranged.

TálØnlyJul 24, 20172 votes

Guess what if they really have 4 people building duskblade you get a free win except you/your team is feeding every lane and if you really do this it doesn't matter how much you ward .

DarkRitualJul 24, 20171 votes

Teamcomps depending.

SpookyNeedleJul 24, 20172 votes

If the blackout passive only disabled wards but didn't tell you exactly where they were, it would be a little easier to deal with.

Stars ShaperJul 24, 20171 votes

That's something worth experimenting with.

And I tell you as some1 who loves playing Lethality Jhin and Varus.

Sun Wu RyuumokuJul 24, 20172 votes

Duskblade will be fixed, when this items will be balanced u won't see more than 2 dusk per game maybe 3 but it will be rare.

KloqdqJul 24, 20172 votes

It's overloaded when you consider the item gives you Ult levels of damage. Blackout should be removed from the item. The only vision tools we should have in this game are ones with low gain items like the jungle item, sightstone or the trinkets.

PePsiLemoNNJul 24, 20172 votes

item 3147 is the worst thing about Duskblade meta :^)

ZapMyHeartJul 24, 20172 votes

The Blackout passive isn't much of a problem, as it's Blackout with Nightstalker.

Duskblade, prior to its changes, wasn't really a great item, but tack on Nightstalker for more damage with vision removal on top of it, it's absurd. A powerful passive shouldn't have a secondary one, especially when Blackout acts as a secondary Oracle's lens. Zhonya's slapped with a 120s cooldown with a mediocre buildpath, yet an AD champion can abuse the Nightstalker passive over and over again.

aZ3R0nJul 24, 20172 votes

item 3070 RIOT THEY GOT BY MY STEALTH WARD!!

Meanwhile, in the item shop...

item 3363

Squidward DabJul 25, 20173 votes

I constantly struggle trying to get my ADC to purchase one of these like if ur yhe squishiest player on the team what makes you think warding with the yellow trinket is gonna be safe

aZ3R0nJul 25, 20173 votes

Level 18 ADC, fully geared 6 items and sold boots, walks up to ward a bush, dies immediately.

You ain't carrying shit when you're dead, so stop face checking bushes with stealth wards!

ssj8BrolykugetaJul 25, 20171 votes

why is dusk blade beeing abused? i havnt played in months and now evveryones spamming it.

Immaculate RheaJul 25, 20173 votes

Duskblade got buffed so now it slows on hit and does bonus physical damage, making almost everyone able to abuse it. Especially ranged champions Thank god, the slow is being removed for ranged but the bonus damage is staying.

I think Duskblade was better the way it was before. This is just fucked now