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Rank restriction: Benched if you are lose 7 of 10 of your last games.

Occams Raiser··3 votes·1,151 views

Would anyone be on board with benching people that take ranked tooooooo casual? I have seen a lot of people with horrendous records. You wouldn't think that 30% would win rate would be hard to stay above but it can be sometimes. I myself have been trolled down to bronze 2 in less than 20 games. Since trolls and Afks are going to be a part of ranked from here to eternity, it just lets me know that I have to get better at dodging nonsense and get better at more roles so when the opportunity for a string of good games presents itself I will be ready for advancement.

Where I have benched myself, there are plenty of players that do not leaved ranked after a slew of loses. They make bronze what it is. Should those that fall to 30% get a little "come to Jesus time" or are they free to make ranked a practice ground? Think of real world equivalents. The dojo is for practice not the streets. When I play ranked, I often feel mugged. BY THOSE ON MY TEAM. The duration of the restriction is up for debate.

Thoughts?

46 Comments

Ghiefelstein6 votes

Being toxic is a reason to bench someone. Being on a losing streak is not. Any player can have bad luck, even with >50% win rate there is a reasonable chance of a losing streak. No need to restrict them from ranked for that.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Yikes 7 games lost. Maybe they need time to gain some perspective. If you had a coach for a competition they would say the same. Trolls are a different story all together. I don't want this to be thought of as a punishment cause I don't want reoccurrences to escalate the restriction in tiers.

Matthias91191 votes

Yikes 7 games lost. Maybe they need time to gain some perspective.

For losing seven games in a row? Maybe.

For losing seven games out of 10? ie, being two games under a 50% winrate in 10 games? No, that's just a really terrible idea. If you have a 50% chance of winning each game, you have a ~17% chance of losing 7 or more out of a set of 10 games.

Genuwhine2 votes

i have 70% win rates so i dont think its a problem (^:

Occams Raiser1 votes

Why?

Occams Raiser1 votes

Why did you post?

Genuwhine1 votes

because you are blaming everything but yourself when you are obviously complaining because you are bronze 2. I could get out of bronze 2 in a heartbeat even with these imaginary trolls that happen "every game" ive been there before all i did was realize i sucked and then i won every game.

SolarisDisruptor1 votes

Don't search up someone's rank. It doesn't help prove your own point and it just makes you sound like a jerk by comparing.

Genuwhine1 votes

maybe to an incompetent fool like you but it does. Hmm a guy stuck at the bottom with alot of games right or someone at the top with alot of games? does little timmy whos in little league know more about baseball than derek jeter? no.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Well I assume that is what he was going for. He tried so hard to go full asshole it had to be a personal goal. This post isn't even about anything he is talking about. The stopped making projectors in the 90s. Stop projecting.

Bresn2 votes

Ha, funny. Let's slap people with a loss streak this (Riot system means that losing once could ruin 3 wins' worth of LP) and make them rage.

Occams Raiser1 votes

I don't know what you mean. I think everyone is reading it as falling below 70 percent cause I meant to wright "losing 7 of 10 games". I never actually talked about it being an actually percentage of games.

Bresn1 votes

If you're on a loss streak, League basically makes you lost lose more than you win, at that point, the typical player will be pissed and then all of a sudden they get hit with a rank restriction.

"Fuck this game"

Poptart Evelynn2 votes

This would actually make players play worse. It creates tension and stress just for doing bad a couple times in a row.

Occams Raiser1 votes

How does a win rate of less than 30% translate to a couple of times?

Poptart Evelynn2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Occams Raiser,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VzELzzXH,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2015-05-19T05:35:00.608+0000)

How does a win rate of less than 30% translate to a couple of times?

Losing twice would create anxiety and make a player more tense which leads to playing worse. As the player continues to stress and get worried they play even more badly until the last game that could be their last which is all out stress.

Think about it.

Occams Raiser1 votes

So if you lose two games, you get worried cause you have 5 more games before you get benched.

Sir Yamazuki2 votes

A better idea would just to have a friendly notification suggesting to take a break due to potential tilting after losing x number of games back to back. In season 3 I once went on an almost 20 ranked loss streak and demoted multiple times, and a fair amount of them were my fault due to having a negative mental state from the first couple losses that weren't even in my control.

Occams Raiser1 votes

In this game however you are effecting other people that can not escape your negativity. Everyone only thinks of the game from their point of view. You need more than a friendly warning when you are sending others into a nose dive with you.

Nameless Voice2 votes

There are three reasons why a player might go on a losing streak:

  • Their current MMR is higher than their skill level, so their opponents are better than them and they are more likely to lose

  • They were randomly placed with a higher-than-usual number of trolls and other game-ruining toxic players

  • Probability. If you have a ~50% chance to win, you can still get a sequence where you lose 7 out of 10 games, for the same reason that you can land 7 heads if you flip a coin 10 times.

For the first one - skill level - if you lose more games than you win, your rank goes down. Eventually, you are playing with other players who have an equal level of skill to you, so you stop losing that many games. That's how the ranked system works. That's the entire point. Why should you punish someone for them moving towards their appropriate MMR?

For the second one - trolls (edit for clarity: players with trolls on their team) - these players have just lost an abundance of games because of bad luck and are already feeling pretty awful because of those toxic players. Why should they be punished even more when it wasn't their fault?

For the third one - probability - basically anyone can have a bad run.

Occams Raiser1 votes

or the first one - skill level - if you lose more games than you win, your rank goes down. Eventually, you are playing with other players who have an equal level of skill to you, so you stop losing that many games. That's how the ranked system works. That's the entire point. Why should you punish someone for them moving towards their appropriate MMR?

This is a flawed system but that is for another argument.

Why should they be punished even more when it wasn't their fault?

In all seriousness. Fuck these people. I say this with a straight face. When has someone's mood ever been a defense for malicious actions? "sorry, your Honor. I was having a bad day when I keyed his car. I went on a losing streak and didn't start trolling. There is a line they crossed and the only discussion should be how will we punish them.

For the third one - probability - basically anyone can have a bad run.

Agreed. But most don't share this sentiment. How can "you have to carry yourself out of low elo" exist in the same environment as " No one should be forced to step back and evaluate their performance to see what they can improve on"? If you need practice, don't do it in Ranked. Practicing falling in LP and MMR is not what you need help with.

Nameless Voice1 votes

You misunderstood my second point. I wasn't saying that the trolls shouldn't be punished, but that the people who had them on their team shouldn't be punished for losing games because of the trolls.

Occams Raiser2 votes

I did misunderstand.

ForPortal1 votes

If benching was justified, it sure as hell wouldn't be that quickly. On average, we have a 50% chance of winning - for every person who wins, there's a person who loses. That's an average of 5 losses every 10 games. Even if they're doing nothing wrong, approximately 1 in 6 players will have at least 7 losses in the past 10 games. A 17% false positive rate is ridiculous.

Occams Raiser1 votes

So you are actually saying that it would be more like losing 10 in a row would be legit?

ForPortal1 votes

At any given time, one in a thousand legit players will be on a 0-10 streak. (2^10 = 1024) That is certainly less bad than the one in six, but that's still a lot of people who will be getting unfairly hit by your restrictions.

Occams Raiser1 votes

Give them one extra loss per 100 games. 1000 games gets 20 in a row (10+10).

Krigjer1 votes

Punish people for something they do on purpose. Most people don't lose games on purpose.

Occams Raiser1 votes

People think any time off is a punishment. OK. Ranked should not be your practice.

Krigjer1 votes

A 'restriction' is viewed as a punishment to most people.

'I lost games, whether by my own fault or not, and am now being forced to play a different gamemode than what I would like to play.'

Occams Raiser1 votes

you lose 7 games in a row?

Matthias91191 votes

"7 games in a row" is a MUCH higher threshold, statistically speaking, than the "7 out of 10" you asked for.

Edit:

But just to be clear, even that would probably be an unacceptable false positive rate. If you have a 50% chance of winning each match, you have about an 0.7% chance of losing your next 7 matches in a row. According to some fancy math here (http://math.stackexchange.com/questions/4658/what-is-the-probability-of-a-coin-landing-tails-7-times-in-a-row-in-a-series-of), with a 50% chance of winning each game you'd have an almost 50% chance of a 7-game win or loss streak at some point if you played 150 matches.

Occams Raiser1 votes

In a lot of threads I see people wishing that Ranked was more serious but I have never seen a thread that was agreed with when trying to implement anything to make it more serious.

powerbats1 votes

Perhaps a better thing since people would get so worried about getting punished by this type of system tehy'd play worse or rage is to implement a break of some kind. You could have a system that syas hey perhaps you should take a break and gives a bonus for taking said break ie they don't play for x time to cool off so next game they play they get either ip or say 1-5 LP but the break would have to be long enough to make it worth it. You'd also need to ensure it only triggers after x has happened and x would be hidden or have several factors of x.

Since everyone has bad streaks the key is to stop them before they get out of hand and cause more problems but also not make so that people try to get that bonus. You want something even handed yet not counter intuitive in that it encourages the behavior you're trying to stop or lower it's effect.

Yakas1 votes

I thint this could work as long as loss prevented would not count as an actual defeat. It would get the casuals to start playing normals like they should...

Occams Raiser1 votes

yes.

Vistha Kai1 votes

I once had 12 games losing streak and I firmly believe I could do better in only ONE of those games.

No, thankyouverymuch.

Occams Raiser2 votes

You can't objectively rate your performance. Personal bias.

Vistha Kai1 votes

I'm sure I could've helped those flaming individuals who were 0/6/0 after 5 minutes of laning as early game champs, mate. Oh, and I don't play jungle, in case you'd like to ask.

Occams Raiser1 votes

You can't help trolls sure enough. You don't think a week off around loss number six would have helped your slide?

powerbats1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Occams Raiser,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VzELzzXH,comment-id=000b000000000000,timestamp=2015-05-20T03:24:33.935+0000)

You can't help trolls sure enough. You don't think a week off around loss number six would have helped your slide?

Perhaps not a week off but a day perhaps or even a few hours of doing soemthing else and coming back refreshed. Back in Season 3 after having a dcer and thena duo pair of trolls cost me my promo series and having a losing streak start I took a long time off from the game to cool off. That's just me and I do it occasioanly when stressed or just frustrated with game or rl since otherwise it just feeds on itself.

Occams Raiser1 votes

That is the one fair argument against this I think. Trolls are so numerous it is hard to say you lost, cause someone was actively sabotaging your game. You can't really hold anyone to a competitive standard until you reduce the trolling.

Vistha Kai1 votes

You think I didn't? Those 12 game were player throughout about two weeks.

I might not play League for a year, what would it change if matchmaking decided that I'm going to play with trolls anyway? Sure, I was actually pretty depressed around 7th game, but then I simply went like emotionless "yeah" after every other game.

Occams Raiser1 votes

fall off with time off would be an easy fix.

Wendingo1 votes

lol bad idear

Occams Raiser1 votes

With a straight face I ask. Do you troll or have a habit of bad play? I ask because in real life people care very little for how a prison system is run. Yet in the virtual everyone defends the lowest common denominator like they are refugees. There is a place for a casual player and a place for competitive play. I see nothing wrong with restricting casual players. Is it the idea that is bad or simply the number is too low? Cause If I looked at your streak after the game was over, I would be like "this guy".

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