Thoughts on Spell Vamp and Lifesteal, and defining Sustain's place in League.

Omnem Occido··1 votes·1,311 views

Currently, there are six roles that champions fit into within League of Legends: the Tank, who soaks up damage while providing CC for their team to capitalize on; the Fighter, who can deal good damage over time, while also being able to soak up a moderate amount of damage; the Mage, a generally squishy champion that uses spells to lock down and/or deal major damage to an enemy; the Assassin, an opportunistic, highly mobile champion that picks out “high value” targets and deals massive damage to them, the Support, who through spells and abilities aid their teammates, and the Marksman, who deals massive damage from afar with basic attacks. There are a few subclasses that certain champions make up: the loosely defined “Bruiser”, a role that is defined by semi-tanky champions that deal moderate damage in the form of their spells (Darius, Ryze, etc.); the undefined role of melee AD carries, who are squishy, but are insanely mobile champions that burst down enemies via empowered melee attacks, and the recently unused “Sustain” champions, who are characterized as being able to stay alive by continually dealing damage to enemies and gaining health in return. The disappearance of these Sustain champions is a result of a general nerf on sustain items (see Spell Vamp nerfs), as well as turning items that better sustain into items that are damage based, with sustain as an extra perk. It has clouded the purpose of certain roles, causing some roles to be emphasized over others, and thereby reducing the usage of champions that fall within that role. To return these champions to prominence, there is a solution that will refine the definitions of the roles, reverting them to their original intent.

First, there is the matter of Lifesteal. Currently, Lifesteal is guaranteed on many roles, including Marksman. The role of the Marksman, however should not focus on sustain, but rather the ridiculous amount of damage they put out over time. Because of Lifesteal being on high damage items like The Bloodthirster or Essence Reaver, they are used too frequently on Marksman, ruining the definition of a Marksman. Now, at the end of a game, a Marksman can fight any other role 1v1 and win the fight without dying. What should realistically happen is that the Marksman should be able to kill certain enemies, but not enemies with burst. The Marksman needs to rely on his allies to provide peels, heals/shields, and cc on enemies so they can chew through the enemy champions. Instead, they can withstand the onslaught of an enemy assassin by out-sustaining the damage, kill the assassin, and then proceed to the rest of the enemy team.

Second, there is the matter of Spell Vamp. Spell Vamp used to be what Lifesteal is like now, only for the “AP” carries. It used to be that AP assassins used it to be able to withstand the heavy blows because they were out-sustaining the damage, while carrying their team by erasing the enemy's priority targets. Riot, however, overshot it when they nerfed Spell Vamp, reducing the effectiveness of AP sustain mages. Currently, champions that live off of spell vamp (Fiddlesticks, Vladimir, etc.) are suffering from a lack of a major part of their builds.

To answer these problems, there is a simple solution: Lifesteal and Spell Vamp ought to have ratios that are different per champion. For instance, Marksmen and Assassins should not be out-sustaining champions, so the Lifesteal and Spell Vamp on their items will have less of an effect. Sustain Mages and Sustain Fighters, however, need the Lifesteal and Spell Vamp more than anyone else, so the Lifesteal and Spell Vamp on their items will have a greater effect.

The changes detailed here would make for a more well defined game, with more champions used as their utility returns.

4 Comments

JustMyBassCannon4 votes

Alright, first detail; you kind of described Mages and Assassins very similarly, and seem to have overlooked that Mages are actually the primary AoE damage role. Just a nitpick.

You seem to have a lot of misunderstandings about sustain items.

  • Spell Vamp, as a concept, is actually not that useful to most champions. Mostly just the sustain-based mages, like Mordekaiser and Vladimir, can really use Spell Vamp as a means of sustain in combat, because their kits are based on spell DPS instead of spell burst.
  • Lifesteal is a Marksman's defense. You'll notice that there are no Crit items with defense stats (after Atma's gets removed, anyway...okay, technically, there's Trinity Force), and the very few AS/Defense items don't scale very well on Marksmen. The two main AD/Defense items that they can use are Maw of Malmortius and Mercurial Scimitar, but they're both situational choices at best. Lifesteal is the Marksman's defense tool, because they cannot really afford to expend extra gold on more than one directly defensive item.
  • Spell Vamp was nerfed specifically because the AP assassins were able to play carry. They were throwing off balance with their burst sustain, allowing them to take a lot more punishment than they should have.

I personally think that sustain items, as a whole, need a rework to simplify this ridiculously complex system. The idea I like the most is making it so that it's all based on a single stat (we can still call it Lifesteal) that affects attacks and single-target burst by (x)%, and AoEs/DoTs by (x/2)%, and then either making Lifesteal a named passive like Tenacity, or giving it a cap like Cooldown Reduction.

Omnem Occido1 votes

I understand what you mean, but my point is that the adc should have to forego defense in favor of abusive offense. I am not saying no Lifesteal at all for marksmen, I am just saying, reduce the effectiveness of it for adcs. Maybe by a factor of 0.25.

The strongest defense of a marksman should always be in the form of his support. The support and the adc are two functioning halves of the same whole, and their roles complement each other. If the support isn't there to protect the adc, the adc should not be able to withstand a fight. In the same way, the support will almost never kill an opponent without the adc's help. By reducing the adc's ability to fend for himself, that will make supports all the more important in the tandem.

As for the Spell Vamp, I personally think that it is not useful because Sustain Mage is a role that Riot has not delved deeply into. There are plenty of the same champion archetypes when it comes to the ranged mages: it is either burst them with a set combo of abilities, or poke them until they are low enough to use a finishing move. Champions with dps damage are weak because they don't fall into these categories. If Spell Vamp were put on more items, and champions were give Spell Vamp ratios, you could very well open up a new category of viable champions, all the while keeping the assassins from being too strong.

junglerboy162 votes

No, the strongest defense of a Marksman is and always will be their range. A support is totally variable (Some games, nobody plays Support, and the support is also taking care of every other champ on the team) but range is a constant for each marksman. Lifesteal IS a marksman's only true defensive option stat-wise, and I agree with you that it is overtuned in favor of them at the moment.

Spell vamp as a stat Is in NO way similar to life steal aside from the most basic concept of damage=health gain. Spell vamp needs to be removed from items and instead balanced champion to champion. Right now, spell vamp requires balancing around mana cost, no mana cost, damage, damage over time, AOE damage, etc. but most importantly regarding the issue of consistency, most spells can MISS; AAs don't miss (unless blinded). Spell vamp from items will ALWAYS be over or under tuned: Either everyone will use it, or nobody will. If they just remove it as an item stat, then all the champions that rely on sustained spell damage for health sustain, like Swain and Vlad, can have their own kits tuned appropriately once they are not pigeon holed into building sub-par sustain items. We see this work in cases like Ryze and Morgana, if their innate spell vamp is too high/low, it can be nerfed/buffed appropriately without affecting any other champions directly.

I would advocate the total removal of spell vamp as an item stat, and instead giving it to champs who should use it directly (as in swain's ult heals for X% up from Y%, vlad's healing abilities heal for more Z% more, etc.). You can already see this shift in Riot's design ideology, looking at the Cassiopia rework, she is all about DoT and sustained DPS. While her passive isn't perfect, the part that lets her heal for a small amount every time she uses twin fangs is the best thing they could have given her. It means that they can balance her freely since she has no need for spell vamp. If all sustained damage mages had hp sustain mechanics like this, then thy could finally balance them well and sustain would become viable again.

Oatmeal Piper1 votes

...are you a vlad main? cause fiddle sure as hell does not need a buff

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