Whenever I go on mobafire, searching up a build guide for champs like diana, ori, ahri, basically every AP carry, rabadons is always in there. but when i come to the boards, everyone says its gold-inefficient and shouldnt be built.
wouldnt you always want to build it as your last item on these champs? like if you build another ap item instead of it, for example protobelt, ur losing a ton of AP. Just confused on how this works
Ok sure but why7 votesBecause every single mage has massive base damage and abhorrent AP scaling.
2016: No one uses Rabadon's :(((( Let's lower the ap on every item and boost the Rabadon's passive
2017: Wow mages are too weak, let's raise all their base damages xDDDDDDD
Sohleks1 votesAccurate
PePsiLemoNN7 votesThat's why you don't take guides or builds and just do everything it says there. The ones you read might be old or something tho.
On most mages you NEED 
then 
against heavy AP / 
for AD (probably both) , 
is a must . You throw boots somewhere in there and you have one slot left. Building 
with only one free slot is a pain as you need to sit on 
for a long time. If you build it earlier you'll have no defence/no mana.
P.S : There also is kind of a tank meta right now so building 
is way better.
Rins Thigh Socks4 votesThere's a few reasons why you would or wouldn't want Rabadon's. You can break it down quite simply.
Burst champions almost always can get away with base damage items plus penetration. Void Staff almost always (and by that I mean there are a few almost theoretical amounts of MR where Rabadon's > Void) outdamages Rabadon's and then you go items with high base damages like Luden's, Liandry's, or Gunblade to make up for lost damage and give you nifty passives/actives.
I will always get Rabadon's on champions with utility scalings though because it significantly ups your shield power. On a champion like Lux or Ori you want builds like Morello Luden Liandry Void Dcap Sorc Shoes for ungodly amounts of burst as well as strong defensive spells.
tieger052 voteswould you get rabadons on diana?
Warlord Rhinark2 votesDidn't you listen to his explanation?
tieger052 votesYes, I did actually lmao.
Warlord Rhinark2 votesThen why can't you decide for yourself whether Rabaddon is good on Diana or not?
Pierce The Veal2 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord smilla,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vsq0PzMU,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-09T10:39:00.841+0000)
Then why can't you decide for yourself whether Rabaddon is good on Diana or not?
Except Rab Cap is really good on diana because it significantly buffs her defense.
It is so core that not building it is basically purposefully trying to lose.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesI'm not saying Rabaddon on Diana is bad. I'm saying this guy should be able to determine if Rabaddon is good on Diana by himself based on the explanation given above. I have never said anything about Rabaddon being bad.
Pierce The Veal2 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord smilla,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vsq0PzMU,comment-id=0002000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-09T14:03:16.457+0000)
I'm not saying Rabaddon on Diana is bad. I'm saying this guy should be able to determine if Rabaddon is good on Diana by himself based on the explanation given above. I have never said anything about Rabaddon being bad.
But the issue with that post is that you really CANNOT tell which one diana is, because she mostly falls under the first category but builds like the second category.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesBut you've already concluded that Rabaddon is good on Diana. I'd say the argument is closed then.
Pierce The Veal2 votes[{quoted}](name=Lord smilla,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vsq0PzMU,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-08-09T20:48:31.976+0000)
But you've already concluded that Rabaddon is good on Diana. I'd say the argument is closed then.
But that's because I play Diana. That's because I can look up the stats. However when you just give someone a generalization and tell them to figure it out from there, and the conclusion you would reach from said generalization is incorrect, there needs to be at least the responsibility to notify the exceptions that come up.
Rins Thigh Socks1 voteswould you get rabadons on diana?
Sorry I was asleep.
I don't know about Rabadon's on Diana since I don't play her. If you get it I imagine it's very late into the game since you already have enough defense via Zhonya's.
The rest of her build is about killing power.
Pierce The Veal1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vsq0PzMU,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2017-08-09T15:50:32.427+0000)
Sorry I was asleep.
I don't know about Rabadon's on Diana since I don't play her. If you get it I imagine it's very late into the game since you already have enough defense via Zhonya's.
The rest of her build is about killing power.
No, on the contrary, you usually get it pretty early. First three items even.
Though there are some cases where you leave it to late.
Rins Thigh Socks1 votesNo, on the contrary, you usually get it pretty early. First three items even.
Though there are some cases where you leave it to late.
Again, I don't play her.
That being said, Zhonya's and Nashor's seemed like a must pre-rework, and Void is better for bursting people down.
idk all the Diana builds seemed quite counter-intuitive to me.
Pierce The Veal1 votes[{quoted}](name=Ahri Lover Rock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vsq0PzMU,comment-id=00020000000100000000,timestamp=2017-08-09T21:49:25.543+0000)
Again, I don't play her.
That being said, Zhonya's and Nashor's seemed like a must pre-rework, and Void is better for bursting people down.
idk all the Diana builds seemed quite counter-intuitive to me.
The rework just opened up paths everywhere. But even then she could build a lot of things and get away with it.
Requirements in build: defensive item Protonelt/lich bane/nashors Deathcap And sorta void staff.
Sujiren3 votesNot sure what your talking about. Most mages build it as 2nd 3rd or 4th item excluding the shoes.
Pierce The Veal1 votesNot sure what your talking about. Most mages build it as 2nd 3rd or 4th item excluding the shoes.
This.
But hey, let's hop on the mages are crap make rab cap cost only 2 gold bandwagon am I right?
Sire Hippington2 votesIt is built but usually only as last item on most champs, and it feels like a chore till you get it. The builtpath is just horrible and there are alot much better options early in the game. And since many games end befor reaching 6 items, deathcap often isn't used at all.
Akali is SO HOT2 votesEveryone builds Deathcap I don't know what people are on about. The reason you don't see it in game as much is because games usually end before you can finish Deathcap because of how long it takes to build. A typical build for Taliyah is Morellos, Pen Boots, Liandries, Void Staff, and then Rabadons. Sometimes people will opt to get an extra item beforehand like a Banshee's which delays buying Deathcap longer, but there aren't very many champions where you wouldn't want to build Deathcap on. It's just games end before people have a chance to buy it.
FantasySniper2 votesRabadon's has a pain-in-the-ass recipe with a massive combine cost. If you want damage, building Void Staff is significantly easier and arguably better, and Luden's is still a better choice after that.
BLACK REALM GOD1 votesreason why no one builds rabbadon? because 400 gold - 800 gold is an extra item and full builds matter. you're literally forced as a pure AP champion to get penetration. it's not only helpful, but in most cases it's required. if you're building rabbadon then you should also be building void staff, archangel staff, morellonomicon, luden's echo, and a 10 minute rod of ages. and forget boots. you're bringing those sweet sweet movement speed runes for maximum damage. anything else is a complete waste of death cap. and the fact is... with that set up you're going to get killed. a lot. so it's not worth. a spell shield negates it 100%. you cant one shot with pure ap champions against any half wit player who accidentally buys magic resist because "oh look it has ___" so flat penetration is pointless even though it stacks with %penetration now. you're better off just getting % penetration if you're getting rabbadon. and we all know that % penetration is worthless on anything but tanks. and tanks arent going to get one shotted with gargoyles and solari. then there's the fact that cooldowns exist. so if you have high ones as a pure AP champ you can forget taking on an entire team or even 2v1's because you wont have enough cooldown to matter. most champions have 1 movement imparing or dash effect that does almost no or exactly no damage so you're not even going to get 4 spells off. instead more like 2. or 3. or 2.5. and furthermore the fact that you have no fallback on your basic attacks further emphasis your whole one and done shtick. might have worked on veigar pre rework of his R when it didnt matter, but now you're just better off with the second item.
that's my opinion anyway.
Pierce The Veal1 votesWhenever I go on mobafire, searching up a build guide for champs like diana, ori, ahri, basically every AP carry, rabadons is always in there. but when i come to the boards, everyone says its gold-inefficient and shouldnt be built.
wouldnt you always want to build it as your last item on these champs? like if you build another ap item instead of it, for example protobelt, ur losing a ton of AP. Just confused on how this works
Good point. There are two, actually perhaps 3 aspects to this.
boards always overreacts. Black is white and white is black. Holy shit the sky is falling 5 movement speed buff/nerf.
It's almost always last or second last item. And giving up special effects and utility to build a 3800 (if I'm not remembering wrong) gold item isn't worth it early on. As such, in the early game meta, it perhaps isn't built in many games, as such people whine about it, because obviously we should be able to build it every damn game.
It's not as core as it used to be. With how easy cdr is to get, and base damages being quite good, getting cdr and being able to spam will net you more inmediate dps than a rab cap would.
Bonus) and then there's the legitimite case where boards is right. However, looking at lolalytics and leagueofgraphs as well as all the other stats graphs, it seems if people get to their final items it's basically always built. As such the cases where it isn't built by final build are almost nonexistent.
I Love Thresh1 votesBuild path and combine cost is just straight up terrible, making it an item that tends to be build very late into the game. Except, games have been getting shorter and shorter, to the point where getting a full build at the end of a game is just straight up rare nowadays.
Basically, no time to build it, it really needs to be reworked.
Poske1 votesWell its good on katarina and azir due to absurd scallings but even then
If you can afford voidstaff / ludens you get those ..
Buying it as 6th item is not correct if you can buy any other item for example if you have 3k gold
Because by the time you have 5 items death timers are to long. YOU MUST ALWAYS SPEND EVERY PENNY before last fights even if that means buying something as wierd as knights vow on yasuo instead of BF Qss mallet/ sterak parts
How likely are you to have 5 items + like 3800 gold xd? Keep in mind you also want to be buying those potions once you are late in a game spending Gold is important
AwesomeGuyDj1 votesBecause if you built it as your final item its crap to build, you have to sit on a large rod. Plus, late game when you would get a rabadons you already have enough AP that your better off going with a protobelt or other ap utility item that gives you a useful active.
Darkdemon6531 voteswouldnt you always want to build it as your last item on these champs?
When was the last time you got to 6 items as a non-tank/TDPS?
Psyrix1 votesI think you were abit confused. Rabadon's is an inefficient early game buy. It only gives AP and a passive increase on that. Other items (e.g. Morello, Zhonya's, Banshees etc.) are more efficient early game buys because of the amount of stats it gives you. AP, defensive stats, mana, and/or CDR. Whilst still remaining less expensive than rabadons. However it will still generally eventually bought because it is a huge AP boost and most effective late game. However mid-game -start of late game it is generally better to get void staff than rabadons because by that time people are building/stacking mr items, therefore Rabadons is generally bought 5 item or 6th, sometimes 4th depending on situational analysis
WoonStruck1 votesMain reason is terrible build path and mage mains being spoiled by overloaded items like Morello's.
zlumpy1 votesYou know what would get more people to wear the hat? Add move speed to it. Most of the immobile mages have to either nuke out their enemy for survival or just die. They have to be super careful in team fights or they just pop due to focus and low survivability.
Unfortunately you can't go the cannon route of extending spell cast ranges due to animations and some champs being able to use the boost more effectively (imagine if an item added even just 100 range to morg Q.)
So I say go with the old force of nature route and give them move speed on another item. Luden's rabadon gotta go fast would be an interesting test on pbe.
HongChongDong1 votesBecause the price efficiency is designed so that it only becomes useful once you've built several AP items, and even then they're always still plenty of items for better power spikes that you can build until late game. Deathcap only ever becomes a good choice when you've completed your build and have a single item slot left, and depending on the champion it sometimes isn't even worth it.