Can we stop denying AP is weak?

tieger05·Aug 17, 2017·62 votes·3,375 views

I feel like the meta hasn't been with AP champions for a while now, and people have either ignored this, or are acting like this is still the AP Meta. Honestly right now, I wouldn't be even afraid to classify AP Champions as weak, because of how hard the meta has shifted, and I believe it's been this way for a while now.

I feel like a lot of things have lead up to this. Cass Nerfs, Taliyah Nerfs, Ori Nerfs, Syndra Nerfs, and nerfs to some other AP mid laners for the World's balance changes played a big part in it, but also The tank meta has become really anti-AP overall. AP Champions are being either CC'd by tanks, or Outscaled by Hypercarry ADCs (Especially now since Lane bullies like caitlyn have been nerfed).

133 Comments

ZezockaryAug 17, 201724 votes

As an immobile mage main, if we are weak right now I don't think I want us to be strong.

tieger05Aug 18, 20172 votes

Thats were the problem lies. Immobile Mages are abusing AP Items with their scalings, and yet the majority of AP Champions are garbage right now

ZezockaryAug 18, 20172 votes

What mages in particular do you have issues with?

EedatAug 17, 201712 votes

Because it's not weak which is why almost all of the best mid laners are still AP. But I'm sure someone is going to tell me how 45% winrate Lucian mid is so strong and OP

CatastropAug 17, 20174 votes

{quoted}

Because it's not weak which is why almost all of the best mid laners are still AP.

Okay, I don't disagree with you, but this is a dumb argument. It's like saying all the best ADC's are marksmen. If you still don't get what I mean, there are more AP mids than AD mids, them dominating a role which they are designed around isn't exactly rocket science to figure out.

NineTailedMysticAug 17, 20171 votes

Because who else can contend for the highest winrates in the only AP dominated lane? The like, 3 AD mid laners of Talon, Yasuo, and Zed?

EedatAug 17, 20173 votes

So if APs are bullying ADs out of arguably the most powerful role in the game, how does that make AP weak?

NineTailedMysticAug 17, 20172 votes

Because there's no contest?

EedatAug 17, 20172 votes

No shit there's no contest? Because any time there are viable AD mids the community loses their shit and demands 47% WR Corki be gutted and 45% WR Lucian is broken. Your response is literally "AD cant contend in mid" and that somehow proves that AP is weak lmao

NineTailedMysticAug 18, 20172 votes

Because most ADs are oppressive as fuck outside of bot lane if they're a Marksman. Their WR is only low because most lack the utility and skew a team's damage ratio to Physical. Corki's is only so low because he gets hard nerfs since he crowds out other mid picks if he's strong enuogh to be picked there.

And my comment of "Because there's no contest" meant that the lane is 99% AP champions. Of fucking course they're going to be better on average than an AD. There's so many more of them.

Zero Skill TankAug 17, 20174 votes

Best midlaners are AP because - and after Syndra, Ahri and Ori nerfs that's THE ONLY reason - magic damage is vrtually nonexistant outside of mid. You need one magic damage threat, because otherwise your enemies will just stack armor, and top/jungle/support/bot champions with high magic damage are all complete crap.

Best princess EUAug 17, 201710 votes

Ap weak? rofl

the reason taliyah got nerfed is because she was broken and she deserved it, no clue why taliyah mains are denying it

i don't agree with syndra and ori nerfs and other mages however there is one thing that is universally true:

marksmen are BEYOND BROKEN right now it's not ap that is weak

marksmen are the only class getting benefit from the broken support itemization and it turns them into markstanks while they also get to late game just with item 3087 item 3031

can't wait for their nerfs

An Undead bratAug 17, 20174 votes

So... in comparison mages are weak?

Best princess EUAug 17, 20172 votes

to the most broken class atm? yeah they are

to other classes in the game? nop

An Undead bratAug 17, 20172 votes

Which class is weaker than them atm?

WhatAGeiniusAug 17, 20172 votes

Assassins, bruisers.

tieger05Aug 18, 20172 votes

I didn't say Mages were weak, I said AP Carries in general are weak. Most assassins fall under AP Carries.

And yeah, Bruisers are probably the only class weaker than them

WhatAGeiniusAug 18, 20171 votes

Most assassins are neither AP nor carries.

2Charmnot2CharmAug 18, 20171 votes

Ekko Leblanc Akali Fizz Katarina Kassadin Ahri Evelynn Nidalee Shaco

That's 11 AP champs that riot has with assassin as one of their 2 roles. 12 if you include shaco since he can go ether ad or ap depending on whichever is better for the shaco players.

KloqdqAug 17, 20177 votes

The items around APs kind of blow. I mean about 70% of them NEED item 3165 to function and not grabbing it often hurts a lot.

Ben SharpioAug 17, 20176 votes

nah i dont care. You guys caused hell when rylais was broken as fuck for so long, everyone else gets a chance to play the game now.

Critmaster GarenAug 17, 20175 votes

[{quoted}](name=Corsair Sion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l0X7eTiQ,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-08-17T13:19:07.006+0000)

nah i dont care. You guys caused hell when rylais was broken as fuck for so long, everyone else gets a chance to play the game now.

i really like not being nailed to the ground because someone pressed a button on me from range.

looking at you, zyra and malzahar.

plus, mages arent weak. they just cant burst through bruisers and tanks, which is intended.

instead of buffing mages, we need to dial down marksmen midgame.

PennsAug 17, 20175 votes

item 3022 hehe

Critmaster GarenAug 17, 20177 votes

{quoted}

hehe

fuck ranged champions with mallet too.

LyingOnLineAug 18, 20171 votes

Gnarbage.

Velzard of KozAug 17, 201711 votes

looking at you, zyra and malzahar.

What button Zyra just presses? She has delayed abilitied and skillshots. The irony it's Garen main who complains? What ability can you fail in? What can you miss? A lot of Mages pay the range with the fact they can actually miss their abilities.

WalkingInACircleAug 17, 20177 votes

He can miss his skillclicks.

Critmaster GarenAug 17, 20174 votes

[{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=l0X7eTiQ,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2017-08-17T14:35:42.398+0000)

What button Zyra just presses? She has delayed abilitied and skillshots. The irony it's Garen main who complains? What ability can you fail in? What can you miss? A lot of Mages pay the range with the fact they can actually miss their abilities.

she spams plants all over the place and just passively slows anything they hit? rylais is basically aimbot for zyra. all she needs is a plant hitting something and then her skillshots might aswell be direct targeted.

just because you asked, garen can miss his slow cleanse, the parry on his w and he can miss the execution on his ult which is not a trivial matter against non villains. he has micromanagement mechanics in his kit. there is also more risk involved in committing to a fight in melee range on a relatively slow champion, than throwing skillshots from range.

zyra might be able to miss some of her abilities, but the consequences are small. most of the time whats going to happen is that she just walks back and tries again a couple seconds later.

but im not trying to start a discussion of which champion is harder to play. especially when theyre just so incredibly different. the point im trying to make is that first of all, rylais is a broken item and i hope never to see it common in a mage build again.

and second, just because mages cant burst bruisers and tanks, doesnt mean theyre too weak. marksmen are just straight up op right now with their midgame/lategame scaling and should get nerfed.

why break another class of champions when all you have to do is fix the one overtuned class?

Voluug13Aug 17, 201711 votes

Zyra's plants cant autolock on champions if you dont get hit by her delayed spells.

Also she is awful outside support, where chances are she wont get Rylai unless she is already winning.

GrimspeakeAug 17, 20175 votes

Syndra pressed r and my adc disappeared. What do i do?

Best princess EUAug 17, 201728 votes

syndra pressed R on your adc

item 3109 item 3193 item 3190 item 3107

welp, try an other time LUL

ExecutionerAug 17, 20174 votes

Why is stoneplate in with those other 3 items? Stoneplate is never used on an ADC, however it only is used on yourself. So the point of putting that item up here too is a bit... dumb.

Locket is a instant, and same with knights vow. Redemption is used first because of the delay. Redemption will not make it before the burst is done by syndra. Everything else will thats instant however. Also why are you picking a fight 1v2?

Best princess EUAug 17, 201712 votes

are you new to the game? stoneplate makes things like nunu giving over 1k hp shield to the adc

and i list redemption because it's used AFTER the burst, to make the adc going back to full hp after the burst also with ardent draintanking and lifesteal

ExecutionerAug 17, 20173 votes

How does he actually give hp to the ADC from stoneplate?

Stone Skin: If 3 or more enemy champions are nearby, grants 40 bonus armor and 40 bonus magic resistance.

METALLICIZE: Increases current and maximum health by 40%, as well as champion size, but reduces the damage you deal by 60% for 4 seconds. If STONE SKIN is active, instead increases health by 100% (90 second cooldown). Current health percentage is conserved when the effect ends, as well.

Where does it say anywhere hp is going to the another champion?

Best princess EUAug 17, 20178 votes