Vayne's buff was ridiculously unneccessary.

tieger05·Aug 9, 2017·113 votes·4,582 views

Patch 7.15, Vayne was sitting at a neat 51.09%, which was the 6th highest ADC winrate at the time. She has a Play % of 9.71, and is within the top 5 most banned AD Carries.

It's just outright depressing whenever riot decide to buff a champion because of it's player base. I mean, here we had diana, who was at a 46% winrate for 5 god damn years (or the patch after her release) before she got some real buffs, and yet red lights go off at riot when vayne hits 51%, because apparently thats underpowered, and needs help.

62 Comments

MordepoolAug 9, 20179 votes

Pre world's Vayne buff happens every year. No surprise there.

My HeartshakerAug 10, 20172 votes

Still ends up not being picked at all for worlds and just gets heavily nerfed after worlds for the rest of us Vayne players.

MordepoolAug 10, 20171 votes

I wonder if that's one of the contributing factors as to why a large part of the community hate that Champion

Chess1Aug 9, 20174 votes

i dont see the problem she can no longer oneshot and kills tanks better..... which is her niche

OnanThaManAug 9, 20171 votes

The heal tacked onto the ult is stupid imo. I hope to god they remove it.

Chess1Aug 9, 20172 votes

with bork and infinity 1v1 against tanks she already outheals them lol

Mira Arya EntheAug 9, 20171 votes

Because boards

fuffychanAug 9, 20173 votes

It amazes me how so many people cry about a champion with very short range, no AOE, no defense, and no reliable CC.

tieger05Aug 9, 201726 votes

And yet that same champion has the ability to farm for 30 minutes, and then completely obliterate a team in a 1v5. "no reliable cc", her E's stun literally lasts for for years if you use it right. Then again, people will deny anything

Automated RivenAug 9, 20179 votes

her e stun is 1.5 seconds. Thats a pretty normal stun

Romans VI XXIIIAug 9, 20172 votes

not at all, normal stunns don't get to 1.5 until maxxed, most stuns on basic abilites are .5-.75 seconds.

Automated RivenAug 9, 201710 votes

the only .75 second stuns are riven w and ren w unless renek has fury then its 1.5 and point blank xerath stun. Otherwise stuns typically scale from 1.0 to 2.0 or around that general area.

This is a list of crowd countrol in the game for your spare time. Take your tome to realize that you are completely wrong in your statement. http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Stuns#Types_of_action_modifiers

Kingdom CornAug 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

And yet that same champion has the ability to farm for 30 minutes, and then completely obliterate a team in a 1v5. "no reliable cc", her E's stun literally lasts for for years if you use it right. Then again, people will deny anything

Even if you dont land the e stun a fucking knock back that sends you flying to the other fucking side of the world is reliable to me and is very usefull when you get ganked. Fucking jarvan e q you? just press e all of a sudden jarvan is in china and you dont have to worry.

weeaboomerAug 10, 20171 votes

I wish i could always delay games like that, but then I remember games can esily end way earlier and I can't delay it as easily if I were low elo..

Daddy AntsAug 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

And yet that same champion has the ability to farm for 30 minutes, and then completely obliterate a team in a 1v5. "no reliable cc", her E's stun literally lasts for for years if you use it right. Then again, people will deny anything

"E stun lasts for years"

It's a conditional stun that requires you to be near terrain.

If you are getting stunned by Condemn it's your own fault.

DaNinadAug 10, 20172 votes

If a vayne obliterates your team 1v5, your team is garbage.

Hèntaî Aug 10, 20171 votes

Id expect a late game champ to farm for 30 and be a monster tbh

UF DanAug 10, 20171 votes

{quoted}

And yet that same champion has the ability to farm for 30 minutes, and then completely obliterate a team in a 1v5. "no reliable cc", her E's stun literally lasts for for years if you use it right. Then again, people will deny anything

"Ability to farm for 30 minutes" "obliterate a team in a 1v5"

How disappointed will I be when I look up your rank? How can I have a rational discussion about Vayne buffs when you think current Vayne has the luxury of farming for 30 minutes or that she's able to 1v5 at any stage of the game? I'm just gonna take the same leap of logic ane be just as unreasonable by assuming you play in low elo. At least that way your grasp of Vayne's power holds some water.

Hexs FortuneAug 9, 201727 votes

{quoted}

It amazes me how so many people cry about a champion with very short range, no AOE, no defense, and no reliable CC.

Say what you will, these buffs will only lead to more nerfs on other parts of her kit down the road

Dextix LTAug 9, 20178 votes

Not short range, her range is average, and she makes up for that with great mobility.
Yes, no AOE.
No defense? She has a dash on a low cooldown, invisibility, increased movement speed AND a knockback/stun. That is a lot of defense.
She has, her e is a stun, and its piss easy to proc except for maybe 5 specific positions on the map.

It amazes me how little people know about the champ and then try to bullshit their way through a discussion.

DragonSheaAug 9, 20173 votes

[{quoted}](name=Dextix LT,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pmAEUh0Q,comment-id=00000004,timestamp=2017-08-09T14:54:01.031+0000)

Not short range, her range is average, and she makes up for that with great mobility.

Yes, no AOE.

No defense? She has a dash on a low cooldown, invisibility, increased movement speed AND a knockback/stun. That is a lot of defense.

She has, her e is a stun, and its piss easy to proc except for maybe 5 specific positions on the map.

It amazes me how little people know about the champ and then try to bullshit their way through a discussion.

About your points

1: She is a skirmishering champion so that makes sense considering she dances around champs.

2: With a good tank, vayne can bounce from one target to the next, with her heal on kill on the PBE, She is immortal.

3: Tankiness is not the most absolute form of defense. Ofc she got a lot of defense and his hard to kill not because she can eat up damage. Your examples on 3 proves it.

4: No more comments. Too easy to proc.

Riot playing favorites with X champ is the of the biggest threats to balancing and since they giving Vayne the Cho'Gath treatment. I think that People need to tell riot they are fucking up the game, Hell. the moment when Fiora and Yasuo earlier in the season was a pain was nothing compared to this shit.

KlavierAug 9, 20172 votes

When they talk about short range, they are refering to the fact that vayne has no way to deal damage outside her autoattack range, that's not the case with any other adc :)

Dextix LTAug 9, 20172 votes

I disagree with this statement on the mobility basis. Yes, some other adc's have higher range skills, but they are either comparatively low damage or those adc's sacrifice mobility.

Vayne however has unparaleled mobility and thus makes up for her not having long range poke abilities with her quick poke and run away strategy due to her passive mobility and tumble

KlavierAug 10, 20171 votes

I would agree with you but Vayne has high single target damage and mobility but no wave clear or poke abilities. Remember that her passive only works as a chasing / engage tool. Would you care to explain her quick poke and run away strategy? I'm not familiar with that.

Sp33d Zer0Aug 10, 20171 votes

In lane, a vayne will auto tumble reset and e. This applies her bolts and does a fair chunk of damage. It is a little mana intensive,.

That being said, because of her chase, vayne's will auto, auto, Q to the side that is easiest to escape from and land the last auto and back off. Most adc's don't want to take the third auto and will turn around to try to break it. By the time they turn around they can rarely continue to trade due to range limits.

KlavierAug 10, 20171 votes

But that only happens if your supp is careless too. It's a duo lane, and many supports can punish vayne for even attempting to do that.

Sp33d Zer0Aug 10, 20171 votes

It can be punished, I'm just stating how she does it.

KlavierAug 10, 20171 votes

Yeah, sorry and thank you.

FiddlesOnTheRoofAug 9, 20171 votes

She's the shortest range AD in the game besides I believe Sivir? She is very low range. The champion isn't very good.

Dextix LTAug 9, 20171 votes

The range of vayne is 550, others adc's with the same range - Corki, Draven, Ezreal, Jhin, Kalista, Miss fortune, Twitch.

Adc's with lower range - Jinx (Machinegun form), Quinn, Kindred, Kog'maw, Lucian, Sivir.

Adc's with higher range - Varus, Ashe, Caitlyn, Tristana, Jinx (Bazooka), Kog'maw (Barrage), Twitch (Ultimate)

So yes, her range is average. Also, range is not everything.

TyermaillinAug 9, 20171 votes

All of them have ways to deal damage beyond their autos except Vayne though. That's the point lol.

weeaboomerAug 10, 20171 votes

Why is varus in the higher range list.

Dextix LTAug 10, 20171 votes

I looked up the range lists, and appareantly Varus does have higher aa range. Not by much, but still higher.

Karn BishopAug 10, 20171 votes

lets not forget that you only have a single second to actually hit a vayne with anything if they are tumbling properly and with only a 1 second response window 95% of all spells will cancel when she invis tumbles again.

I think vaynes major frustration points would go away if they allowed in progress spell/ability casts on her to complete even if she tumbles away.

weeaboomerAug 10, 20171 votes

Great, let's do that for every champion that can stealth, or better yet, allow reds to let you view all of them....

Hèntaî Aug 10, 20171 votes

I can make a champion sound busted too;

Passive gives him a ton of free AD and lets him basically 100-0 someone without any counter play at all
He has a Q that basically lets him last hit without much effort
His W is a snare that gives him ms when it hits
Who needs mobility when you can drop a weird ass lookin flower that has a slow and gives him the ability to root you
Dont even get me started on his broken ass ult thats a long range execute

On the real though, I do have faith in riot to tune down some of her other abilities to compensate for the buffs she getting. I also do think its a good step to help her in the early stages of the game so that she can stay relevant in terms of early game since games tend not to last longer than 15-20 minutes. You also gotta remember that shes very bad early on and that mobilty helps her during those stages as well as teamfights since vaynes either go balls deep or flank around.

Dextix LTAug 11, 20171 votes

Did you read the original comment i responded to? I was not listing out things to say that she is busted, i was simply telling the op why his points were wrong. Before posting, please read up on the context.

Hèntaî Aug 11, 20171 votes

I did, before replying try keeping your panties out of a bunch kay? In the lower paragraph I put my actual opinion. On top of that I hint that the above was a joke. "On the real though" Read the whole thing before you get butthurt friend.

RainfallAug 9, 20172 votes

riot is trying to ruin the game so that the lcs is intresting for the couple of thousands of people that will watch it.

JorenciceAug 9, 20172 votes

You mean millions?

I've seen 10s of millions actually. One world's match was more popular than the baseballs world series.

GayFluffyUnicornAug 11, 20171 votes

Any source to these numbers? Considering any CS GO or dota event has 10 times the viewers than any league event through out the year on twitch alone. Pro scene is dying that's why riot is so desperate on turning this game into a clownfiesta so more people watch it and be like PogChamp.

Mira Arya EntheAug 9, 20173 votes

*Ruin the game for salty boards members

SlampieceHawkeAug 9, 20172 votes

As a casual Diana player I whole heartedly agree with all of this.

The moon remembers.

MurdercapAug 9, 20172 votes

[deleted]

OriyokiAug 9, 20172 votes

You still white knight protecting Vayne? You been here doing that for like 10 hours at least now.

MurdercapAug 9, 20172 votes

This is the first time i have commented on this post? are you dumb?

Mira Arya EntheAug 9, 20172 votes

Yes it was, I need a way to easily make tank mains cry, besides she is weaker against low HP targets now.

Karn BishopAug 10, 20171 votes

This is a myth people keep on spreading, its not true and never will be so long as silver bolts grants true damage vs both tanky folk and non tanky folk alike.

How do they fix this you might ask? give silver bolts HP comparison thresholds so that your opponent must have % more hp then vayne does to get true damage and if she fails the hp % check silver bolts lose 1/4th of their damage vs that target.

MaeDoSanAug 10, 20172 votes

He is right tho her tumble no longer crits , meaning her auto attack after her tumble won't do more damage than Draven spinning axes now , she is nerfed against squishes definitely

ProfDrDeathAug 10, 20172 votes

If it was purely a buff, you'd be correct in its assessment of being unnecessary.

However, the projected Vayne changes on the PBE are not pure buffs. Rather, they are changes that target the currently dominant build (Shiv/IE), that relies on Q's bonus damage critting as a tool to explode squishies.

With that gone, Riot is free to balance Vayne in a more anti-tank direction, with buffs to Silver Bolt's damage (but nerfs to its minimum damage, again making it less efficient against squishies) and the healing based on target's health during Final Hour.

Now, you could make an argument that 20% of target's health could be a bit overtuned for the healing...