Make Tryndamere more like a barbarian warrior with a huge sword and less of a saboteur or bandit

Critkeeper·Oct 10, 2016·81 votes·13,161 views

slower moving, slower hitting, a wider array of defensive tools and a bigger sword

When Tryndamere attacks 2.5 times a second it kind of destroys the illusion that the sword he's always dragging behind him is heavy or unwieldy.

And watching Tryndamere split push all day and then scurrying off when some heat is coming his way doesn't feel right. It makes him feel like a bandit who wants to vandalize your benches, lightpoles, trees, public spaces, libraries, your yard and your towers, not a barbarian who wants to be surrounded in violence.

325 move speed, 1.25 attack speed cap, replace mocking shout with a channeled block ability so he can team fight without being a binary one button champ, and double his sword size and range and make it feel big and unwieldy. Make it so that his auto attack strikes a linear area in front of him and can miss if enemies step out of it. But if it lands make it smash shit hard. Real hard. Like "I don't give a shit if you stacked armor on alistar ult this shit will fuck you up so get the hell out of the way" hard.

81 Comments

TeemoXNidaleeOct 11, 201629 votes

Barbarians need no armor.

Why barbarians need no armor you may ask?

Because barbarians don't fight; Barbarians splitpush.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKbWrP6b3WY

D357R0Y3ROct 11, 20163 votes

i fcking died

The 2nd HorsemanOct 12, 20165 votes

That was amazing

EvewynnOct 11, 201618 votes

I dunno, barbarian doesn't really seem like a hulking archetype to me.

Attack hard, attack fast, move quick, all at the cost of defense. That's all a barbarian is to me. Slow and heavy sounds like some sort of super armored person.

RalanrOct 11, 20163 votes

There are different interpretations of barbarian but you're probably pointing to the most accurate. Since "barbarians" couldn't afford the best defenses they had to focus on ambush and hit and run tactics.

I'm pretty sure even Conan relied on stealth for numerous occasions.

But the hulking juggernaut barbarian also exists, though I'm pretty sure Sion would suit that archetype better with his Q and R already.

CritkeeperOct 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

There are different interpretations of barbarian but you're probably pointing to the most accurate. Since "barbarians" couldn't afford the best defenses they had to focus on ambush and hit and run tactics.

I'm pretty sure even Conan relied on stealth for numerous occasions.

But the hulking juggernaut barbarian also exists, though I'm pretty sure Sion would suit that archetype better with his Q and R already.

I don't want to make Trynd a Sion duplicate. I don't think "heavy and slow" has to imply juggernaut. I think people associate it with juggernaut and can't imagine a melee carry with that sort of "feel" because all melee carries that have ever been made for this game were narrowly focused on sort of a "blitz" approach of doing as much damage as quick as possible to the most important targets, and then likely dying or snowballing from there. But thats basically an assassin with auto attacks.

I want a proper melee carry. One that does the same job that a ranged carry does. Ranged carries can work because range is a defense that allies can amplify with peel and presence. I want to give Tryndamere an array of defensive tools that when used in conjucntion provide his allies the ability to amplify his Time To Battle, the same way his allies might be able to do so for a ranged champion.

I want Tryndamere to feel like an undying brutal badass in fights but even I can see that you can't just give him the raw power to 1v5 enemy teams. You have to gate some of his power behind the strategy and interaction of his allies. I'm okay with that. As long as it means Tryndamere can be more of what he is supposed to be-- a proper melee carry.

RalanrOct 14, 20161 votes

I had an idea where instead of being unable to die he can just come back to the rift faster. Sort of like Diablo in Heroes.

SherogarthOct 11, 20166 votes

Fun historic fact - term "vandalize" comes from Vandals a Germanic tribe from middle Europe that were in fact barbarians (or at last they were seen like this by ancient Romans). So vandalizing your whole base is 100% legit for a barbarian champion.

CritkeeperOct 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Fun historic fact - term "vandalize" comes from Vandals a Germanic tribe from middle Europe that were in fact barbarians (or at last they were seen like this by ancient Romans). So vandalizing your whole base is 100% legit for a barbarian champion.

Fair enough. Actual barbarians didn't want to fight unless they had to, they'd rather steal and pillage because its a much easier and less risky way to make a living.

The barbarian trope itself isn't necessarily aligned with the historical facts of what barbarians truly were and did.

SherogarthOct 11, 20162 votes

The barbarian trope itself isn't necessarily aligned with the historical facts of what barbarians truly were and did.

Ok then lets have a look at barbarian class or tropes in other games:

Neverwinter Nights (based on classic D&D) Description: Barbarians are brave, even reckless warriors, and their great strength and heartiness makes them well suited for adventure. Barbarians scornfully reject the fighter traditions of arms training and discipline, instead tapping into a powerful rage that makes them stronger, tougher, and better able to withstand attacks. They only have the energy for a few such displays per day, but it is usually sufficient. Constant exposure to danger also gives barbarians a sort of "sixth sense," a preternatural ability to sense danger and dodge attacks, and their running stamina is legendary. Proficiencies: armor (light, medium), shields, weapons (martial, simple) Class feats: barbarian fast movement, barbarian rage, uncanny dodge, damage reduction

So light/medium armed raging warrior that dodge attacks and can outrun his enemies.

The Elder Scrolls III Morrowind (back when TES games were class based) Description: Barbarians are the proud, savage warrior elite of the plains nomads, mountain tribes, and sea reavers. They tend to be brutal and direct, lacking civilized graces, but they glory in heroic feats, and excel in fierce, frenzied single combat. Specialization: Combat Attributes: Strength, Speed Skills: Axe, Medium Armor, Blunt Weapon, Athletics, Block, Acrobatics, Light Armor, Armorer, Marksman, Unarmored

Again light/medium/none armed raging warrior that dodge attacks and can outrun his enemies.

Heroes of Might and Magic III Barbarian hero: Barbarians are might heroes of Stronghold. They are little concerned with anything outside the pursuit of military might. Consequently, they advance most quickly in attack based skills and slowly in all others. Barbarians wield massive weapons and wear little armor.

Ok this description doesn't tell us much but if you check what are those "attack based skill" they "advance most quickly in":

Offense, Artillery, Ballistics(to destroy enemy walls), Tactics, Scouting, Pathfinding(to move fast), Logistics(to move fast)

High offense, low/medium defense, fast army and good siedge.

And last but not least: 4.

Warcraft 3 Description: The Horde possesses the game's most powerful ground units, including the savage Grunt and gargantuan Tauren. The Orcish Horde has modest air and ranged capabilities, but their true strength lies in their brute strength and raw melee power. Even the magic of their spellcasters is designed to enhance their frontline troops. And some of thier skills: Pillage: Certain Orc units can be upgraded to salvage gold and lumber when attacking enemy buildings. Bloodlust: Increases a friendly unit's attack rate by 40% and movement speed by 25%.

So yeah, again fast, strong looters.

Looks like trynda fits right into his theme.

Or maybe you have some counter examples?

CritkeeperOct 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

So yeah, again fast, strong looters.

Looks like trynda fits right into his theme.

Or maybe you have some counter examples?

Dungeons and dragons, Diablo, Everquest, Morrowind are examples. You are entitled to disagree about what the barbarian trope is supposed to be or even if it is consistent with itself. I'm not interested in having a debate about it because I am not personally vested in the idea that the trope must mean one thing or another. I said the trope isn't necessarily aligned, which is trivially true.

Whether it is aligned or is not aligned is incidental and irrelevant because different people will submit to different definitions of the trope, since the trope itself is defined indirectly through the media in which is subsists, but that very same media can't be determined to be appropriate examples of the trope unless you have a definition to make that determination if the first place. I won't waste time with arguing about something that is intrinsically circular.

SherogarthOct 11, 20162 votes

Ok i get it that there are tones of ways to make a champion fit into theme. Taric's theme was a paladin but he was not a traditional holy warrior or crusader, he was the gem knight (now he's more like a star cleric but that other story).

But then please ask yourself do you really want Tryndamere to be different or do you just want a new champion that fits you. There are tones of players that enjoy Trynda as he is now (not me i hate his playstyle).

I can get behind your idea of melee champion but cant make this into new champion instead of killing one of existing?

Stick In MuddOct 10, 20165 votes

I kind of like this. Tryn has always been a strange niche pick inside of League, and him receiving an update like this would probably be a good thing.

It's a little like Jhin, but a front line juggernaut rather than a back line assassin.

His rage meter could increase his damage and the AoE AA effect you're suggesting, so the more he is in battle the harder he becomes to deal with, which would allow him to build tanky and still be a problem to deal with in deal fights. Get rid of his dash and replace it with some sort of targeted charge ability that allows him to close the gap with his target, unless someone gets in the way.

I think they will go in this direction with an Aatrox update. More of a front line tank disruptor that deals increasingly more damage the more time he's ignored.

PermabannedGarenOct 11, 20164 votes

Tryndamere's theme is that of an unrelenting berserker who channels his fury to hit hard and fast while abandoning all reason and notion of defense, surviving due to his seemingly supernatural inability to die. This fits his glass cannon but with a big defensive ultimaate playstyle well. He's as far as I know the original melee carry, and I don't think he should be turned into another juggernaut. Now, he does need work, but any work should be done to refine his identity and make it workable, since Rito has shown us that melee carry kits can work with Yasuo and Fiora. He's not old Poppy levels of bullshit where he needs his whole kit scrapped.

I'll be honest, I don't know why you play Tryndamere if you hate his identity as a champion lol.

WoodakoodashoodaOct 11, 20163 votes

Tryndamere certainly has needed a rework for a long, long time now. And I agree that something aimed toward his lore and theme is a step in the right direction.

RalanrOct 11, 20162 votes

The main thematic in his lore is his sheer refusal to die however. Currently it doesn't translate into a healthy manner, but I'm not sure how to make a healthy version.

The two ideas I can think of are either something similar to Ekko's ult or a way for his death timer to decrease like Diablo in HoTS.

Actually the latter could be interesting.

GlaedrOct 11, 20163 votes

What is wrong with having splitpush carries? You can argue his theme may not be perfectly aligned with his lore, but it is certainly a hell of a lot better than Nasus or Swain.

CritkeeperOct 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What is wrong with having splitpush carries? You can argue his theme may not be perfectly aligned with his lore, but it is certainly a hell of a lot better than Nasus or Swain.

Nothing is wrong with it, I just don't think it fits Tryndamere, thats all. If we had something like a proper saboteur in league, it would fit that champion a lot better.

PBnJamsOct 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Nothing is wrong with it, I just don't think it fits Tryndamere, thats all. If we had something like a proper saboteur in league, it would fit that champion a lot better.

Saboteur is someone who: "a person who destroys or damages something deliberately : a person who performs sabotage"

I do not understand how Tryndamere's current form of a splitpushing god does not coincide with that. Also, It sounds like you want him to be a King of sorts. He is already a King, a barbarian king who united the barbarians by literally DESTROYING everything he came across and redefining the foundation of the Frejlord because of it.

AnidanOct 11, 20162 votes

It sounds like he wants Tryndamere to be up front and in your face, to beat you down with sheer manpower rather than running away any time a threat looms near with "Brave Sir Robin Ran Away" playing in his head, alongside "Yakety Sax" if the chase goes on for a while.

Fondling GemsOct 11, 20161 votes

Bravely bold Sir ~~Robin~~ Tryndamere Rode forth from Camelot He was not afraid to die Oh, brave Sir ~~Robin~~ Tryndamere He was not at all afraid To be killed in nasty ways Brave, brave, brave, brave Sir ~~Robin~~ Tryndamere

He was not in the least bit scared To be mashed into a pulp Or to have his eyes gouged out And his elbows broken To have his kneecaps split And his body burned away And his limbs all hacked and mangled Brave Sir ~~Robin~~ Tryndamere

His head smashed in And his heart cut out And his liver removed And his bowels unplugged And his nostrils raped And his bottom burnt off And his penis split and his...

"That's... that's enough music for now, lads."

Brave Sir ~~Robin~~ Tryndamere ran away (No!) Bravely ran away away (I didn't!) When danger reared its ugly head He bravely turned his tail and fled (No!) Yes, brave Sir ~~Robin~~ Tryndamere turned about (I didn't!) And gallantly he chickened out

Bravely taking to his feet (I never did!) He beat a very brave retreat (All lies!) Bravest of the brave, Sir ~~Robin~~ Tryndamere! (I never!)

CrazyBear1987Oct 12, 20163 votes

Ever heard of Art of War? He is a KING, not just your average Barbarian. Maybe what your looking for is trundle or Olaf, but those roles are already filled. Tryn is fine, he has been fine for several years now. Rework? maybe. Complaint? No.

GULAG 4 UOct 11, 20162 votes

You;ve posted the thread before. Also melee carries need mobility. They need it in mass so they can keep up with ranged ones.

MunchCrunchLunchOct 11, 20161 votes

they can't keep up with ranged ones thats why they split push. thats why they are cancer to deal with with no melee carries because there isn't a lot u can do.

TalisidOct 11, 20161 votes

I mean, melee carries are forced to split push most of the time because they are shit in teamfights (get kited or bursted) but really good 1v1 duelests. I don't think there is any way to fix this.

If you are getting splitpushed on make sure your lanes are pushed up before you go for teamfights/objectives that way you have time to react before he's beating down your inhibs and sweep his wards so you can collapse onto him when he tries to split. Its really frustrating, I know, because it takes way more team coordination to prevent a splitpush than it does to implement one.

CritkeeperOct 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I mean, melee carries are forced to split push most of the time because they are shit in teamfights (get kited or bursted) but really good 1v1 duelests. I don't think there is any way to fix this.

If you are getting splitpushed on make sure your lanes are pushed up before you go for teamfights/objectives that way you have time to react before he's beating down your inhibs and sweep his wards so you can collapse onto him when he tries to split. Its really frustrating, I know, because it takes way more team coordination to prevent a splitpush than it does to implement one.

I think there is a way to fix this. But all the melee carries RIOT has every put forth are more offensive than defensive. They focus too much on blowing up someone before dying, rather than just pushing out lots of damage on whatever they can reach while NOT dying.

The latter is the pattern that ranged carries use to survive. I think we can have some melee carries designed around that approach, but they'd have to be slow, squishy, but with game changing, utterly warping defensive abilities that allow them to survive focus from an entire team reliably, repeatedly and persistently under SPECIFIC conditions that both teams struggle to control, with the same amount of conflict that both teams would generally have controlling range vs ranged champs.

TalisidOct 12, 20161 votes

but then you just have another fighter/bruiser archtype with a tank-shreding ability like Vi or tanky yasuo, and although I think Vi is fun she's not a really a melee carry.

CritkeeperOct 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

but then you just have another fighter/bruiser archtype with a tank-shreding ability like Vi or tanky yasuo, and although I think Vi is fun she's not a really a melee carry.

I don't think vi has the pattern I specified, she more or less just dives hard, hits hard and dies hard.

Yasuo is closer, but he can't go far enough because he tries to be part assassin.

TalisidOct 12, 20161 votes

{quoted}

I don't think vi has the pattern I specified, she more or less just dives hard, hits hard and dies hard.

Yasuo is closer, but he can't go far enough because he tries to be part assassin.

It depends on how you build her. Personally I build a mix of one attack speed item (usually bloodrazor enchant) and tank stats. She grinds tanks down with surprising speed with her built in armor pen and % health shred. I know a lot of people build her as a sort of assasin-type where she just dives the backline and blows somebody up with an AD-Caster type item build, maybe that's stronger but I personally don't enjoy it and my team is usually lacking a tank anyway.

DradaOct 14, 20161 votes

{quoted}

You;ve posted the thread before. Also melee carries need mobility. They need it in mass so they can keep up with ranged ones.

This idea sounds closer to a more offensive juggernaut than a straight melee carry

MLDzXnRRROct 11, 20162 votes

His mocking shout is interesting - probably inspired from the warcries in diablo 2. Passive crit + bonus AD - typical for melee DPS in many games. Spin - barbarians in Diablo and orcs in WC3 had spins. His ult is strictly worse than Abaddon's in DOTA and Kindred has another AOE version. The healing on Q is underwhelming unless you go AP - build that was nerfed to the ground. Unlike Yi, Yasuo and friends, Trynda is completely dependant on right clicking. This champion is so bad... it will need so much work to make him playable in league of ranged ADCs and supports.

Immortal spaxOct 11, 20161 votes

So rework him in on another juggernaut?

CritkeeperOct 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Immortal spax,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vr4sFriN,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2016-10-11T10:10:56.651+0000)

So rework him in on another juggernaut?

I don't want him to be a juggernaut. I don't want him to be a huge hulking duplicate of Sion.

I want a melee carry who doesn't attack all that fast but hits extremely hard and wide. There is no reason why every melee carry out there has to attack fast, move fast, and focus squishies-- they just start to feel like auto attack based assassins.

Instead, Imagine a melee carry that moves slow and attacks slow, but has an array of best-in-game defensive TOOLS (not raw stats) that are powerful enough in the ideal circumstances to literally block the entire enemy team's focus fire.

A ranged champion can, with protection, in the ideal circumstances, invalidate the entire enemy team's attempts to counteract. They can leverage their front line and with the assistance of their allies stay just out of lethal range of the enemy team, constantly whittling down enemies that stray near with a flurry of attacks.

I want Trynd to take this approach, except with singularly devastating attacks that strike an area. And instead of "staying just out of range" I want him to be IN range of everything the enemy team can throw at him. His defensive tools should be of such caliber that if he is able to leverage his team in order to wield them to their maximum potential, he has just as good a chance of surviving focus fire as slippery ranged champions do.

The caliber of defense I'm talking about would be like a sword block that has a 2 second cooldown, roots Tryndamere and prevents him from turning, auto attacking, or using spells or abilities while channeling, and blocks everything in a 180 degree in front of him, whether it be crowd control or damage. The enemy could stop the block by getting behind him and either doing so much damage to him he is forced to disengage or ult, or cc him so as to interrupt the channel.

An ability like that would require him to coordinate with his team, because there are some enemy champions that can get behind him and ruin his day. However, if his team is able to protect his flank, he can single handedly protect his vanguard against anything, anything at all. 2 champs, 5 champs, 5 champs a morde ghosts a clone a bunch of heim turrets a baron and tibbers he just doesn't care. He might not be able to move, turn or attack while he's blocking, but you aren't going to do shit to him unless you approach him from more than one angle or can outmaneuver him one on one.

Essentially I'm looking at this from a different perspective. I don't think all melee carries have to do the same job that Yi tries to do, or be as one dimensional.

Immortal spaxOct 11, 20162 votes

Man, you just described a juggernaut: immobile, defense steroid and tanky

Also, this theme cant be realized, because its too similar to mordekaiser.

Actually i think, they didnt realized him to splitpush, but he got relegated to do it. Because melees carries have hard time to survive in team fights

CritkeeperOct 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Immortal spax,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Vr4sFriN,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2016-10-11T17:53:26.990+0000)

Man, you just described a juggernaut: immobile, defense steroid and tanky

Also, this theme cant be realized, because its too similar to mordekaiser.

Actually i think, they didnt realized him to splitpush, but he got relegated to do it. Because melees carries have hard time to survive in team fights

"Tanky" isn't something that can survive all the shit I rattled off. Windwall doesn't make Yasuo "Tanky", it makes him peculiar to fight. You have to fight around it, because there is no fighting through it.

Likewise in a protect the kog comp, there is no fighting "through" kog's range. You have to handle him. That means fighting "around" his range, figuring out how to get to him and kill him, or at least disable him long enough for your team to do its basic operations. That doesn't make Kog a tank, it makes the defense of his range game changing when amplified by the presence of a peel oriented team.

There is no reason you can't have a melee carry centered more on that form of game altering defense than on assassination or split pushing.

And yeah, most melee carries got relegated to split pushing, but none so much as Tryndamere. It feels bad for Tryndamere players, becuase we never asked for this, it was just sort of dropped on us without explanation or even a hope that the game might become more welcoming for us one day.

PBnJamsOct 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

"Tanky" isn't something that can survive all the shit I rattled off. Windwall doesn't make Yasuo "Tanky", it makes him peculiar to fight. You have to fight around it, because there is no fighting through it.

Likewise in a protect the kog comp, there is no fighting "through" kog's range. You have to handle him. That means fighting "around" his range, figuring out how to get to him and kill him, or at least disable him long enough for your team to do its basic operations. That doesn't make Kog a tank, it makes the defense of his range game changing when amplified by the presence of a peel oriented team.

There is no reason you can't have a melee carry centered more on that form of game altering defense than on assassination or split pushing.

And yeah, most melee carries got relegated to split pushing, but none so much as Tryndamere. It feels bad for Tryndamere players, becuase we never asked for this, it was just sort of dropped on us without explanation or even a hope that the game might become more welcoming for us one day.

I actually take offense to that last part that melee carries, especially Tryndamere players never asked for this, because:

1: before I even picked up the character, split pushing is how my group of friends played him. For reference, this was back all the way in 2009 before he had a rage meter. This was when Hao was at his prime in both 3's and soloq as Tryndamere.

2: splitpushing is why I picked up the character. My computer at the time was shit and I absolutely loathed teamfighting even after I got a better PC. I like the option to be a much better player by focusing on objectives and trolling the enemy team compared to having to fully commit to being a "true" team player.

You're talking about how to make Tryndamere better, the unfortunate truth is he's perfect and potentially fun for players of all skill levels already. Don't change him, we need to keep simple champions with even simpler ways to effectively play them in this crazy game of ally friendly walls, crystal capture points, paragraph long double passives, and 6+ spells kits.

CritkeeperOct 11, 20161 votes

We may disagree about Tryndamere specifically then.

But atleast we can agree that there is another angle by which to design effective melee carries that isn't currently being utilized.

ScarPirateOct 14, 20161 votes

Ironically, you just made a better mordekasier design then CertainlyT (sorry not sorry) just a really one for trynd. maybe we should push trynd toward olaf's direction?

churddOct 14, 20161 votes

Melee Jhin without ammo?

ChalkieWhiteOct 14, 20161 votes

I imagine something like Nightmare from Soul Caliber.

n am presiuneOct 14, 20161 votes

huge sword, slow as, good base ad, sounds like making another champion realistic(eg.: Graves)

Call me AstroOct 14, 20161 votes

I dont agree with you. Tryndamere is a niche pick for some and his kit has strenghts and obvious weaknesses, which define him as a champion. But let me tell you that this concept may work for a new champion, but personally i don't like the idea of such a huge gameplay rework. This will delete his whole identity as a champ and i don't think that the REAL Tryndamere wants to give his name for an identity-lacking champ.

GrievenOct 14, 20161 votes

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/F3ApFedm-tryndamere-rework

Just made this. Tell me how do you feel about it, OP?

CritkeeperOct 15, 20161 votes

I really like most of it, but there are two points I'd have different:

I'd prefer if his auto attacks had range and hit in a linear avoidable aoe, that way we can afford to make them hit harder or ignore even more armor or damage reduction than your rework suggests.

I don't think his current W or the W you suggest really fits what he needs as a champion. The biggest reason Trynd can't work right now in a team fight is that the enemy team has all the control over when Tryndamere ults, essentially putting him on a timer. You can't expect a champion to be so powerful that he never needs more than 5 (or 7 in your case) seconds to make enough impact to compare with the roster. So I'd prefer if W served him to that end, taking some of the control of when he ults out of the enemies hands and into his allies hands.

Thats why I suggested in this thread a stationary channeled sword block that roots him and prevents him from turning but blocks all cc and damage directed at him from one direction. There is clear counterplay here-- get behind him and disrupt him or damage him so much he's forced to move. That kind of weakness can be covered by allies, who can body block and protect Tryndamere's flank. That makes him feel like a proper melee carry, and patently different than the melee carries we currently have.

TotalJerkOct 14, 20161 votes

Thematically speaking it would make more sense if Olaf and Tryndamere's ults were switched. Balance wise that isn't a good idea.

JavazonOct 14, 20161 votes

Yea im sure turning tyrnamere into a tank teamfighter would go over well with the fans. Ebin idea b8.

Tyrant KenOct 14, 20161 votes

Olaf is a good exemple of a barbarian, and he attacks fast, really fast.

SaphOct 14, 20161 votes

To be fair, Olaf is a lot closer to the classical berserker archetype, where he charges in and fights until either he's dead or everything around him is dead. It makes sense for him to hit hard and often, and quick strikes make more sense on the guy who's dual-wielding hand axes compared to the guy who's dragging around a sword as tall as he is.

ÐelofashtNov 26, 20161 votes

I posted this in another thread, however I wanted you to hopefully see my thoughts as well, and wasn't sure you would in the other thread.

Just off the top of my head the changes I would suggest would be:

Reduces incoming damage for higher fury Fury used by all skills (not full bar, but some of it) Passive Crit removed, using a skill guarantees next attack to be a crit (lower % damage than usual, more when he's at higher fury levels) Taking damage gives him some rage when he gets low on health Ult make his fury explode around him after a small delay using up his rage and refilling his health (instead of no health and unkillable) Slow changed to frontal line with a wide width Spin moves much further towards enemies, less so moving away from enemies

Just a brief start, keeping in mind his barbarian theme, and his skills do not require huge changes. . . thematically staying roughly the same, just shifting him from a more assassin style play to a more front line style of play. The playstyle is promoted to move toward the enemies by way of the skills and less so about running away, the small delay on full heal from ult means using it becomes gauging the damage of the enemies for what they are going to deal him very important and the detonation makes him want to be in the group of enemies. Seems like everything a Berserker champ wants to do.

CritkeeperJan 3, 20171 votes

bump