look at karmas tether range. does anyone has the exact number. its not even close. lb tether must be twice as long for such an offensive champion the tether range should be reduced. a flash doesn't even get you half way to get rid of it.
i got the numbers. karma tether is 675/1000 while lb is 1750 at all ranks.
with the slow its practically impossible for any low-mid mobility champs to get out of it. meanwhile karmas has less range and it doesn't slow
OverpoweredSoap42 votesTo be fair, Karma's tether is point and click.
And LeBlanc's kit is just odd.
Thematically, it should have a rework tbh.
MunchCrunchLunch4 votesTo be fair, Karma's tether is point and click.
And LeBlanc's kit is just odd.
Thematically, it should have a rework tbh.
yeah but with that hit box does it even matter? and #2. champs with higher skill caps should not have advantages. they should just be. idk good in a certain situation. more flexible. lets nerf every point and click champ and buff every kinda high skill champ and call it a day. riot can design their champions the way they want. but they shouldn't have advantages in similar abilities in literally every single way. karmas slow is in no way better than leblanc. point and click but its easy as hell to get out of . matches shouldn't be decided in champ select screen. right?
Llanite16 votesWhat you described goes against high risk-high reward principles.
Skill shot has a chance to miss, hence when it hits, it hits harder.
MunchCrunchLunch6 votesWhat you described goes against high risk-high reward principles.
Skill shot has a chance to miss, hence when it hits, it hits harder.
how is she high risk when she can dash twice. and has a passive that makes it nearly impossible to kill her. shes one of the safest champions if not the safest in the game
magic pole10 votesi play a lot of leblanc so i won't say anything about her balance bc i will be down voted and I'm probably biased.
however, the best advice i have to make laning easier against her is to learn her zone of threat (i.e. the range of her Q and W). Be very aware of that zone and stay out of it; force her to use W to gap close rather than as part of her damaging combo. It will greatly reduce her burst and if she wants to lay on the harass, she will need to use E to pop Q, which drains her mana early on.
Also, the E can be sidestepped somewhat reliably as it is rather thin (unless you fucked up and let her W on top of you leaving her with a point-blank E). Always try to sidestep left or right when she W's towards you.
lastly, if you have to fight her, hide in your minions and she will have a very hard time landing E
iamleburk2 votesYeah play against her like you would a talon; Stay out of her W range. If you do that, her only poke option would be to W forward then Q-E, which is risky as it uses a lot of mana, is a skill shot and you already used one of your main combo tools for mobility.
This changes a little with her ult, but you should never let a leblanc get off a free Q-W. Think of her not as an assassin, but as a burst mage, a Lux with (much) shorter range, higher burst, and more reliable burst. Avoid her burst and the champ is useless. There's also the trade off of mobility vs CC between those champs, but thats not relevant to this point.
Llanite2 votesI also find a strong pusher is every effective. If you push hard (but safely), she'll have to max W and her Q-E becomes even weaker.
Spoofghoul2 votesIm going to be downvoted for this :p
But would you not agree that leblanc can be easy to lane against, epending on wether your champion can push hard at lvl1. I always hardpush her at lvl 1 into her tower so she has to use her mana to farm or lose cs. I pretty much keep poking pushing and fighting at lvl 1 untill we are both out of mana. So by forcing her to use all her mana too she will no longer have any kill pressure after which i can keep shoving waves everytime i see her jungler is far enough from our lane.
Works most of the time for me.
You can do this with champions like Brand and Malzahar or Orianna to name a few. And since you have stronger teamfight turning the lane into a farmfest is a win for you.
And whenever this for some reason doesn't work out Magic pole pointed out some good ways to deal with Leblanc
magic pole2 votesyup i would agree that is one viable strategy against leblanc. Malzahar is great at this for sure. you have to be able to shove pretty quickly though or your lane gets stuck at her tower
also if you just want to hard counter her, pick 
. All 3 of these dumpster leblanc when played correctly and seeing them picked are my nightmare when i pick leblanc.
MysticFlameHaze1 votesI also play LB pretty often, and i staying in minions will not help you simply because i would not use my E ever to poke, you would be better off maxing your W about 3 points before your Q and poke with that over anything simply because you deal more damage with the W early over the Q which needs a second spell to proc it, while looking to dish some damage out as lb against your enemy laner attempt to hit them with the W when their minions are low so you pick up some farm with it, very good for farming and poking, you will generally clear the minions in the way when you W'd in opening the chance for a point blank E followed with a Q, jump back to the W and let the chain proc the Q.
that's just some advice of dominating your lane, but my major point is hiding in your minions would not be a great idea, just to avoid the E. if anything stand behind them out of reach of the W and you should be fine, once her ult is there, you're just gonna have to deal with the Q R combo which chunks you but really doesn't do that much unless you leave yourself open for her dash
magic pole1 votesyeah, it's more of a last resort tactic if you get caught out or ganked and HAVE to trade with her. Agreed though once her W is level 4 or 5 it can probably 1 shot caster minions. so there's that
Scarabking1 votesI know a very avid leblanc player that completely agrees her gameplay is totally unhealthy and we both scratch our heads about why she of all people hasn't been reworked already.
Poske5 votesyeah but with that hit box does it even matter? and #2. champs with higher skill caps should not have advantages. they should just be. idk good in a certain situation. more flexible. lets nerf every point and click champ and buff every kinda high skill champ and call it a day. riot can design their champions the way they want. but they shouldn't have advantages in similar abilities in literally every single way. karmas slow is in no way better than leblanc. point and click but its easy as hell to get out of . matches shouldn't be decided in champ select screen. right?
OP is comparing champion abilities which is dumb you have to compare entire kit + base stats.. Honestly Le bl e is her weakest ability anyway...
Le bl e has 50 width. Thats actually really thin .. It was nerfed but it seems that none in boards knows anything about that nerf..
Le bl players start having positive winrate with her after 125 + games And its like 50.1 good luck climbing divisions with her ...
But lets better nerf her Am I Right???
Dengeden2 votesThe W-R-Q-E combo is pretty potent poke though. There's almost no time to react.
Nobody remembers that LB had the worst winrate in the game after her silence was removed :[
Weeb Guardian1 votesTrue, while she still had a silence she had one of the highest winrates tho... Btw didn't she get some compensation buffs?
Kosm1K1 votesnope, not really. Every change since silence removal has been a nerf with the exception to E missile speed and passive stealth duration. Not counting the buff to dash speed from 1300 to 1450 because that's just fixing what they overnerfed EDIT: forgot to mention that technically the clone having buffs too is a buff itself EDIT2: The only "compensation buffs" LB got was mana cost reductions on her Distortion for late game, and not by a significant amount either
V6.1:
Ethereal Chains / Mimic Ethereal Chains Missile speed increased to 1750 from 1600. V5.22:
Mirror Image Clone will now possess copies of Crest of Cinders, Crest of Insight and Hand of Baron.
V5.16:
Distortion Dash speed increased to 1450 from 1300.
V5.11:
Distortion / Mimic Distortion Dash speed reduced to 1300 from 1600. Ethereal Chains / Mimic Ethereal Chains Missile width reduced to 55 from 70. Improved the rate at which the ability checks if the tether is broken by 400%. Fixed a bug where the ability would not root targets if they were protected by Black Shield.png Black Shield when hit initially, even if the shield was broken before the ability resolves.
V5.6:
Mimic Sigil of malice ratio decreased to (+60% AP) from (+65% AP). Distortion ratio decreased to (+90% AP) from (+97.5% AP). Etheral chains ratio decreased to (+60% AP) from (+65% AP). V4.19:
Mirror Image Flashing no longer de-stealths LeBlanc and her clone when Mirror Image is triggered. V4.17:
General Texture update to Classic, Mistletoe, Prestigious and Wicked LeBlanc. Mirror Image The clone now spawns instantly and stealthed. Stealth duration increased to 1 second from 0.5. Breaking the stealth on either the clone or LeBlanc will remove the stealth on the other. Distortion Reactivation time increased to 4 seconds from 3. V4.13:
Distortion Mana cost reduced to 80 / 85 / 90 / 95 / 100 from 80 / 90 / 100 / 110 / 120.
Weeb Guardian1 votesK thx :p wasn't sure, that's why i asked :p
Dengeden2 votesShe did but they hung her out to dry for months.
Reactivation time increased to 4 seconds from 3. The clone now spawns instantly and stealthed. Those buffs during late S4 pushed her over the edge again. What she lost in kill pressure, she made up for in outplay potential (somewhat, her late game and reliance on snowball was and is still bad). The Athene nerfs made it harder for squishy mages endure her damage and prevented them from pushing her into her tower too.
Poske1 votesThe W-R-Q-E combo is pretty potent poke though. There's almost no time to react.
Nobody remembers that LB had the worst winrate in the game after her silence was removed :[
WRQE is a one type of ranged insta kill combo
Or it is just bad version of Aoe combo ...
and there is lots of time to react.... Humans need 0,3 or less seconds to react.. by the time she flies to you can use your entire combo
She had low winrate even when she had silence tbh
Dengeden1 votesBut what if she jumps at you from FoW? At least, that's how I saw them play her in LPL after laning phase ended.
Naturally, it's a subpar version of what other champions can offer with items but that's kind of the point of an early-mid game champ like LB, isn't it?
When LB had a silence she was Pick/Ban in LCS though, right? I had no idea how to play solo laners back then (Middlesticks, Flask-Ward start, Athene's Annie, you name it) so my knowledge on that era is kind of eh.
Poske1 votesBut what if she jumps at you from FoW? At least, that's how I saw them play her in LPL after laning phase ended.
Naturally, it's a subpar version of what other champions can offer with items but that's kind of the point of an early-mid game champ like LB, isn't it?
When LB had a silence she was Pick/Ban in LCS though, right? I had no idea how to play solo laners back then (Middlesticks, Flask-Ward start, Athene's Annie, you name it) so my knowledge on that era is kind of eh.
If assassin attack you from out of fog of war you are death.. Thats how Moba works, Thats how assassins work and you do deserve to die then
Le bl can kill you in so many different ways fast but if we are speaking out of brush for example then the best combos would be ewqr /eqrw / eqwr
WRQE / WREQ is more of chase one shot reach combo
Le bl was considered strong for a month and a half and she had silence since release
chipndip17 votesTo be fair, Karma's tether is point and click.
And LeBlanc's kit is just odd.
Thematically, it should have a rework tbh.
Yea, but Karma has to get closer to launch it, stay closer to get the snare, and she's secondarily a support with no other form of cc anyway. LB's missile speed on her chain is extremely fast anyway.
Karma's could at least slow, or LB's could at least not. -_-
Poske17 voteslook at karmas tether range. does anyone has the exact number. its not even close. lb tether must be twice as long for such an offensive champion the tether range should be reduced. a flash doesn't even get you half way to get rid of it.
i got the numbers. karma tether is 675/1000 while lb is 1750 at all ranks.
with the slow its practically impossible for any low-mid mobility champs to get out of it. meanwhile karmas has less range and it doesn't slow
I cant tell if you are stupid or trolling
1750 is her missle speed
Lunar Silkworm4 votes[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VliAAmX7,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-01-17T23:28:06.778+0000)
I cant tell if you are stupid or trolling
1750 is her missle speed
Thank god someone else caught it.
Faith restored.
Malriet7 votes
Etheral Chain (E) -
Cast range: 975
Missile width: 55
MIssile speed: 1750
Tether range: 1000
Focused Resolve (W) -
Cast range: 675
Tether range: 1000
Your numbers are slightly off, but that's beside the point. The fact that their tether range is the exact same is stunning. I think the range-update frequency on the chains are quite different though. As a Karma main, almost the millisecond they step out of the range it gets cancelled. In the case with LeBlanc, the tether has quite the wiggle-room.
I have seen LeBlanc's chains cause the root on someone when she is far beyond her tether range - generally linked to teleporting back with Distortion. They need to update the frequency of the range-check so that it is much more in-line with other tether abilites.
And for the sake of consistency, PLEASE make all tethers have the range-check circle. (Similar to Morg's Ult)
Kosm1K2 votesthey actually made leblanc's tether range update check 4 times faster than it used to, so it should be up to snuff with karma's now
V5.11:
Ethereal Chains / Mimic Ethereal Chains Missile width reduced to 55 from 70. Improved the rate at which the ability checks if the tether is broken by 400%. Fixed a bug where the ability would not root targets if they were protected by Black Shield.png Black Shield when hit initially, even if the shield was broken before the ability resolves.
Malriet1 votesI have a gut feeling it went something like this: Originally, LeBlanc's tether was updated once per second. So when the chain connected, it has an immediate range-check of 1000. Then when it has .5 seconds left on the chain, it would check again. After the .5 seconds was left on the chain (regardless of how far away you are) it would root them no matter what.
After the 400% increased range-check frequency: LeBlanc's tether is updated every .25 seconds. The chain connects -> checks tether -> .24 seconds remaining until the root applies -> Distort backwards (farther than 1000 units) -> root connects.
I believe the problems lies in the fact when the root "triggers," it doesn't apply a final range check. So after the last tick of the range-check, you're free to go however far away from the target as you please. [zombie-brand-clap]
Kosm1K1 votesyeah maybe, but someone who managed to distort after waiting just short of the 1.5 secs should be pretty rare
PiVoRx5 votesThe biggest bullshit ive seen is that when LB disortions into you from half of the mid lane, catches with tether and then returns and you still are leashed.. Like holy shit.
MyNameIsFaran1 votesthat is a trick see its like red buff in jg well think of it like that. so shes in mid and she w's and e's you her e as soon as it goes off she will w back which makes it seem like she is doing bull shit but in your def the tether stays on .1 sec so if you have goten good enough at timeing it you can do it really easy
WookieJesuz4 votesDont worry, its getting buffed next patch.
Tribbles Foxfolk3 votesDont worry, its getting buffed next patch.
Reality check: It already did. Missile Speed (how fast it travels) went up slightly (+50 iirc). Hitboxes still wonk af.
@OP LB's really a 1-trick pony that gets shut down pretty hard by any CC that's at least a snare (Ahri greets you). Q-R-W+E EVERY TIME. If you have to use your R on anything else besides to mop up a kill you missed, you're playing her wrong.
IAMS4T4N4 votes[{quoted}](name=Eevee Girl Alex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VliAAmX7,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-01-17T22:40:23.939+0000)
Reality check: It already did. Missile Speed (how fast it travels) went up slightly (+50 iirc). Hitboxes still wonk af.
@OP LB's really a 1-trick pony that gets shut down pretty hard by any CC that's at least a snare (Ahri greets you). Q-R-W+E EVERY TIME. If you have to use your R on anything else besides to mop up a kill you missed, you're playing her wrong.
idk about you but W-R-Q-E is a pretty nice combo as well
FistOfSharkiesha4 votesAlso has a 100% AP ratio and takes less time to complete the tether, has a higher root duration, and a scaling cooldown so it can be 2/3rd the cooldown of Karma's tether at rank 5. [zombie-nunu-bummed]
Gregor Gysi4 votesGoddamn, check your facts and come back again. Karma tether range is 1000 - the cast range is 675 (OP got them confused). LeBlanc has a 950 Cast range but it is a skillshot rather than a targeted instant tether - with a missile width of 55 - the tether itself has a range of 1000. TL;DR: Both have the exact same tether range. OP missread the wiki article and everyone got excited. Thread is over boys.
Poske1 votesGoddamn, check your facts and come back again. Karma tether range is 1000 - the cast range is 675 (OP got them confused). LeBlanc has a 950 Cast range but it is a skillshot rather than a targeted instant tether - with a missile width of 55 - the tether itself has a range of 1000. TL;DR: Both have the exact same tether range. OP missread the wiki article and everyone got excited. Thread is over boys.
width is 55? isnt it 50? Can you give me source? Edit yeah its 55 according to wiki
Cabalist3 votesKarma's tether is click and cannot be disrupted by minions while LeBlanc's Tether is blockable by minions and if you get caught in it and arent able to escape, its either Lb was lucky, you didnt react, or that the Lb is a Lb main
Face The Lewd2 votesWhat do you mean I love when flash isn't even enough to escape it on top of the slow it applies
MunchCrunchLunch5 votes[{quoted}](name=Face The Lewd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VliAAmX7,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-01-17T21:50:33.109+0000)
What do you mean I love when flash isn't even enough to escape it on top of the slow it applies
there is practically nothing to be done. you run at her. she runs away. you run away. she runs at you but honestly even if she doesn't the range is so long it doesn't matter. unless you flash and have some dash.
YCitizenSnipsY10 votesI don't know whats sadder, the fact that you think Le Blanc's 1000 range tether is greater than Karma's 1000 range tether. Or the fact that your getting this much up votes for spreading lies.
iamleburk3 votesI believe the term is "confirmation bias"
Darth West2 votesI don't know whats sadder, the fact that you think Le Blanc's 1000 range tether is greater than Karma's 1000 range tether. Or the fact that your getting this much up votes for spreading lies.
The forums is loaded with Bronze people, expect them to lie about a champion after they lose thinking how overpowered a champion is.
Calabok2 voteshow the heck is she going to get any kills if her tether is as long as a vienna sausage?
XXSweepStakesXX2 votesMore or less because they don't want LB herself to break the tether after a distortion. That would limit it to an initiation spell and take away any safety
Although, one must question why she needs to have safety when not even wall made of solid titanium keeps you safe from her as she nukes you to oblivion
Dominick Destine2 votesOne is a skillshot. The other isn't.
Mystery solved.
rtbf2256182412 votesTo be honest i am fucking sick of that tether shit, she is running away from you (while trading) and still manages to hit it.
Arion4351 votesI don't care about any of the math. All I know is that it feels really unfair. Most abilities you can walk away from or skirt if you are good enough. Her tether is not one of those. Literally, the range is long enough that low mobility champs like Annie simply cannot do anything against it. If you get tethered, you ARE going to get stunned and there is no counterplay unless you have flash. So basically, every 5 minutes you can actually escape her tether.
