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Can we nerf veigar?

JhomasTefferson··9 votes·5,251 views

He's op. I can't abuse the stun cd because it's too short, and he does too much damage. Also, his early game is too strong. for how powerful his lategame is.

I was just playing a game as amumu. I had 600 hp, a little over half at 15 min into the game. Just his ult killed me. No other ability. I was under mid tower just soaking farm, and he just ulted me. Not his w and ult. Not hit q and ult. Not ignite and the ult. Just the ult. 600 hp. Thats ridiculous. I thought "oh, me must be fed" Nope. He was 1/2/1 when he killed me.

Immediately after that, i want to shut him down, so i gank him as hes coming back to lane, so he can't ward first, and thankfully, the lane was pushed towards our side.. His e and ult hit me. I had bought some more mr and hp while i was dead. i had a null magic mantel, and about 1300 hp. I landed my stun, he landed his at the same time. So, he uses dark matter and his ult. i die.

Lategame, I have a abyssal scepter and a banshees veil for mr. I had about 3400 something hp, and 180 mr. We had just taken baron too. he was off pushing a lane by himself, taking abig wave of our minions, I think, "Ok, I'm tanky now, i have minons, i have baron, iron elixir, ult, flash, banshee shield and red smite. I kill him, then use the big wave to take bot inhib" He oneshotted me. This isn't ok. We were both at full build sure, but, I had banshees, so one of his abilities was negated, and i had 180 mr. I could have built more, i guess, but they had a fed graves and a trist too, so i built Tmail, FH, and tabi instead. Veigar is just ridiculous.

Veigar is just too strong. I'm not asking for him to be gutted, but, maybe have his numbers nerfed. I think he should be able to kill squishies easily, and people who dont build a few mr items, but not people who are building tank. The only item i had that wasnt a tank item was abyssal, and thats at least an mr item. Maybe, his ult shouldn't be quite so good as an execute, at least early on. And maybe, his stun, since its aoe and potentially 5 man, and it works as a wall which last a few seconds, should have a meaningful cooldown. With a 14 sec cooldown at max rank and 20% cdr, which he'll definitely have, since they almost always build morello, its at 11 sec. with full cdr, its at 8-9. Thats just too short. I think his other CDs are ok, but this one, for the value of the spell, is just way too short.

edit: sorry about those typos and weird word orders, i didnt want to lose what i had typed and was having browser issues it should be fixed now.

23 Comments

Brutalitops014 votes

his ult does execute damage. Also, his E is on an 18/17/16/15/14 second cooldown and he maxes it last, so it should've been like 18 -10% if he had a cdr item by that point. Also, did you look at his stacks? While he may not have been fed, he gets bonus AP for hitting enemy champions with his abilities and killing all enemies, including minions. His Q deals 70/110/150/190/230 (+60% AP) damage, his w 100/150/200/250/300 (+100% AP), his E deals no damage and is just a stun wall that lasts 3 seconds and stuns for 1.5-2.5 seconds, and his ult deals 175/250/325 (+75% AP) (+1% of the total damage per 1% health the target is missing) damage. Also, the absolute lowest Veigar can get his E cooldown is 8.4 seconds at max rank (Veigar level 18 because he maxes it last) and max CDR (requires typically 3 CDR items). Plus, his counterplay is the fact that his ultimate is his only targeted ability and if he misses everything else it only deals like 300 even to squishy targets. His E is also incredibly telegraphed with a .5 second delay before it spawns, so you know if you see the little ring forming to not go anywhere near it and then he misses his other skillshots and is useless. I remember when his Q was targeted and his E formed instantly, you had to be legit wood 10 to mess him up.

JhomasTefferson1 votes

I just checked some guides. They have the e as the second skill to max, and, as i said, in my op, with max cdr it would be 8-9 seconds. 8.4 falls in that range.

And, as i said, most veigars, and mid mages with that play style, build morello first, which gives 20% cdr. Also, in a lategame teamfight, as a tank with 3500 hp, its hard not to get down to 1500 hp, even if you arent hit by any of his abilities, an amount of damage which his ult is completely capable of doing.

Brutalitops011 votes

{quoted}

I just checked some guides. They have the e as the second skill to max, and, as i said, in my op, with max cdr it would be 8-9 seconds. 8.4 falls in that range.

And, as i said, most veigars, and mid mages with that play style, build morello first, which gives 20% cdr. Also, in a lategame teamfight, as a tank with 3500 hp, its hard not to get down to 1500 hp, even if you arent hit by any of his abilities, an amount of damage which his ult is completely capable of doing.

3 things: 1: Magic resist (items are getting heavily buffed next patch, with 1 of them giving you 80 Armor and MR each if at least 3 enemies are nearby and allowing you to double your health) 2: If he targets you with his ultimate that should mean that your carries should be able to win the teamfight because he becomes completely useless in terms of burst the instant his ult is down unless he lands an E. If your carries can't win a teamfight where the enemy focuses the tank that much, they must be bronze 10. 3: Since when do you max E second on him?? I've been playing this game for 7 years and I've only ever seen maxing Q first, then W, and E last. I have never, in 7 years playing this game, seen a single Veigar max E second because literally the only thing you gain from maxing it is a lower cooldown, whereas his other abilities give either 40 or 50 bonus damage in addition to lowering the cooldown if you max them first. I say that anyone who maxes E second on Veigar is stupid and has no idea how to play this game.

JhomasTefferson1 votes

1: Magic resist (items are getting heavily buffed next patch, with 1 of them giving you 80 Armor and MR each if at least 3 enemies are nearby and allowing you to double your health)

Cool. Im looking forward to that.

2: If he targets you with his ultimate that should mean that your carries should be able to win the teamfight because he becomes completely useless in terms of burst the instant his ult is down unless he lands an E. If your carries can't win a teamfight where the enemy focuses the tank that much, they must be bronze 10.

I am in bronze, soo, yeah. I guess you're telling me i can blame my teammates this time?

3: Since when do you max E second on him?? I've been playing this game for 7 years and I've only ever seen maxing Q first, then W, and E last. I have never, in 7 years playing this game, seen a single Veigar max E second because literally the only thing you gain from maxing it is a lower cooldown, whereas his other abilities give either 40 or 50 bonus damage in addition to lowering the cooldown if you max them first. I say that anyone who maxes E second on Veigar is stupid and has no idea how to play this game.

I can link you the guides. Theyre written by people that allege to be diamond

Brutalitops011 votes

{quoted}

Cool. Im looking forward to that.

I am in bronze, soo, yeah. I guess you're telling me i can blame my teammates this time?

I can link you the guides. Theyre written by people that allege to be diamond

Do it. Also, as for the item changes, there are 2 completely new items and several changes to items.

Abyssal Scepter has the same passive, but is now focused on MR, having the current Banshee's Veil build path and stats. Banshee's Veil has the same passive, but is now focused on fighting, having the current Abyssal Scepter's build path and stats.

I don't know much about the new items or the rest of the changes, however I do know that one of them gives +40 armor and MR, which doubles to +80 if at least 3 enemies are nearby and it has an active to give increased size and double your total health (so for example if you have 2,000 health, this item's active will make it 4,000). I know there is another new MR item and that GA now gives AD and I believe only armor, not MR anymore.

JhomasTefferson1 votes

You're kidding. GA is gonna give ad and armor? I think I might quit. And double your health? Like, are they gonna nerf cho, or are they gonna allow the 20K hp monstrosity?

And when you said "do it" did you mean blame my teammates or link the guides?

Brutalitops011 votes

{quoted}

You're kidding. GA is gonna give ad and armor? I think I might quit. And double your health? Like, are they gonna nerf cho, or are they gonna allow the 20K hp monstrosity?

And when you said "do it" did you mean blame my teammates or link the guides?

GA currently gives +60 Armor and +45 Magic Resistance. The magic resistance is getting removed and the build path changed to be Pickaxe and Longsword with the armor item instead of Negatron Cloak. I don't know exactly how much AD it will give, but the MR has been removed and it now gives AD instead, yes.

And yes, that item has an active that doubles the your current health total. Not sure if it has been nerfed on the PBE yet, but I expect it will be before the change goes live. It's an active, though, meaning it only lasts a certain amount of time. However, I can only imagine ADCs becoming unkillable monstrosities with this + Sterak's Gage, especially if they have Tri Force synergy (Lucian, Ezreal) because I now am an Ezreal with 5k HP and the ability to get a 1500 health shield. Good luck fighting me. Oh, and my revive item now also gives me more damage. Because fuck you, assassins.

JhomasTefferson1 votes

That's absolute aids. I Bought GA for the tank stats, i think everyone did. Now its going to be built all the time on assassins, divers, and adcs alike. I'd be willing to bet hundreds of dollars that it becomes core on all ad champs in the next couple of patches.

MissingKayo2 votes

Learn to dodge.

JhomasTefferson3 votes

Dodge as an immobile tank whos supposed to be, idk, tanking for the adc? and when he has that stun thats up way too often? I can understand people saying "learn to dodge" when theyre talking about a lee or yas Q, or thresh or blitz q, a fizz ult, any Ez ability, basically, anyone who doesnt have a good ranged cc setup,

but, when youre talking about someone who has a built in ranged stun that lasts long enough for him to hit his highest damage ability,, thats not really a fair statement

MissingKayo2 votes

If you're a tank, Veigar doesn't do shit to you. So it doesn't even matter. A carry shouldn't be in frontline to be hit by Q anyways, W is easily dodgeable, you shouldn't be stunned by Veigar E unless one of his teammates pulls you or pushes you into it, and if you're low enough to die to his R, you shouldn't be in his range.

JhomasTefferson4 votes

As i just demonstrated, and experienced, he still does do shit to tanks. and, his r does 1700 damage, so...

MissingKayo1 votes

Yes, your personal anecdote of your idiotic playing is incredibly valid. Oh wait.

His R doesn't do 1700 damage by itself without other extenuating factors. Stop crying.

JhomasTefferson4 votes

The extenuating factor is being at half health with 1700 hp.

I wasnt playing idiotically. I built MR items against him. I built banshees, the Highest MR item in the game, and only went in when i should have had a clear advantage. Even with that MR, banshees, and the 20% damage reduction on red smite, He killed me

DragonBound12 votes

{quoted}

Learn to dodge.

His ult is point and click

Mocking Shout2 votes

His cage is the most absurd skill in the game. Its downright unfair that it stuns more than 1 person. That mechanic is a relic from a state of the game long passed. Note how they nerfed Ashe's arrow way back when, because that was stupid good. That was an Ultimate. Give him something to keep his 1v1 relevant but he doesn't need to be so powerful AND be capable of locking down an entire team.

It persists too long. It stuns too long. It stuns too many people.

ggigotfed2 votes

1: He's like nasus when farming, only much scarier. DONT LET HIM FARM! 2: If you are a tank and trying to solo kill veigar, you need to rethink you life. 3: Veigar has this really crazy thing called being squishy. Even if he buys hp/ap items he still melts like butter and all his rotation needs to be manually aimed, except R, which is an execute. 4: did I mention his R executes and you are a tank? 5: if you have baron and he is off farming, why would you as the main tank of your team go off to pick him up, instead of taking that underfed adc I know you have. 6: Respect the midget!

Melager122 votes

I think this topic is fair enough. Low mobility of Veigar is not even disadvantage. Infinite scaling AP with hitiing champions, or getting assists is total absurd. Go on ARAM for example, when people got 530 ap only with rabadon and 300 AP scaled from hiting other players. Its total complete bollox and this char need to be reworked. Not Xin Zhao or Fiora...

NoisyHokage2 votes

With the new runes he's even more broken. His W + stacks deal more damage than Carry can do with a full build auto. It can even reach 1k just for one W of his. It's simply unfair and unpleasant that there is someone like Veigar, who's damage is too great for Carries and even tanks to deal with. Nothing stops it, no MR, no nothing. If you are in range, you literally can go to shop, since you are dead. NERF HIM.

Cloud2731 votes

{quoted}

Hes op. I can't abuse the stun cd because it's too short, and he does too much damage. Also, his early game is too strong. for how powerful his lategame is.

I was just playing a game as amumu. I had 600 hp, a little over half at 15 min into the game. Just his ult killed me. No other ability. I was under mid tower just soaking farm, and he just ulted me. Not his w and ult. Not hit q and ult. Not ignite and the ult. Just the ult. 600 hp. Thats ridiculous. I thought "oh, me must be fed" Nope. He was 1/2/1 when he killed me.

Immediately after that, i want to shut him down, so i gank him as hes coming back to lane, so he can't ward first, and thankfully, the lane was pushed towards our side.. His e and ult hit me I had bought some more mr and hp while i was dead. i had a null magic mantel, and about 1300 hp. I landed my stun, he landed his at the same time. So, he uses dark matter and his ult. i die.

Lategame, I have a abyssal scepter and a banshees veil for mr. I had about 3400 something hp, and 180 mr. We had just taken baron too. he was off pushing a lane by himself, taking abig wave of our minions, I think, "Ok, I'm tanky now, i have minons, i have baron, iron elixir, ult, flash, banshee shield and red smite. I kill him, then use the big wave to take bot inhib" He oneshotted me. This isn't ok. We were both at full build sure, but, I had banshees, so one of his abilities was negated, and i had 180 mr. I could have built more, i guess, but they had a fed graves and a trist too, so i built Tmail, FH, and tabi instead. Veigar is just ridiculous.

Veigar is just too strong. I'm not asking for him to be gutted, but, maybe have his numbers nerfed. I think he should be able to kill squishies easily, and people who dont build a few mr items, but not people who are building tank. The only tank item i didnt have was abyssal, and thats at least an mr item. Maybe, his ult should be quite so good as an execute, at least early on. And maybe, his stun, since its aoe and potentially 5 man, and it works as a wall which last a few seconds, should have a meaningful cooldown. With a 14 sec cooldown at max rank and 20% cdr, which he'll definitely have, since they almost always build morello, its at 11 sec. with full cdr, its at 8-9. Thats just too short. I think his other CDs are ok, but this one, for the value of the spell, is just way too short.

Veigar's cage should have the same cooldown as Yasuo's windwall. That ability is just way too strong. Other than that I think he's fine.

JhomasTefferson1 votes

I'd be ok with this, and i, as someone who plays yasuo, think his windwall at max rank should be a 20 sec cd.

TekkenPlayer1 votes

{quoted} , his early game is too strong. for how powerful his lategame is.

his early game is pitiful, anyone with a blink or strong waveclear gets to freely roam and there is not much veigar can do about it

The Traveled1 votes

How many stacks did he have? What was his keystone? What level was he when he ulted you at level 11? And what was his build at every point? (If you can't remember you should be able to see it via your match history on their website)

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