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Here is how to rework dorans shield to fix top lane while keeping it fair for bot lane:

Critkeeper··1 votes·614 views

Melee only 80 health 8 health regen Unique: If there are no enemy champions within 600 range for 3 seconds, you gain "Hit and run" Hit and run: For 3 seconds after auto attacking an enemy champion, block 40 damage from auto attacks and grant 20% movement speed while moving away from enemy champions.

EDIT (in case its too oppressive bot lane) @WoonStruck Unique: If there are no enemy champions within 600 range for 3 seconds, you gain "Hit and run" Hit and run: For 3 seconds after auto attacking an enemy champion, block 40 damage from auto attacks and grant 20% movement speed while moving away from enemy champions.

EDIT (in case its still too oppressive bot lane) Unique: If there are no enemy champions within 600 range for 3 seconds, you gain "Hit and run" Hit and run: For 3 seconds after auto attacking an enemy champion, block 40 damage from auto attacks from that champion and grant 20% movement speed while moving away from enemy champions.

The counterplay to this item is to not let the enemy fight in short bouts, when they go in, try to extend the fight to marginalize the effect of hit and run. Generally this can't really be done if the enemy is under tower.

This covers the weakness that melee champions have when trying to farm under tower versus ranged champions, because it gives the melee champion a way to exert some threat. They can engage for a winning attack trade and then clean up the minions, rather than constantly take auto attack damage for free.

It also makes a good "i'm losing" item buy, because it protects you from tower dives.

19 Comments

WoonStruck2 votes

Yeah, every tank support would take Siege Master, Fearless, Legendary Guardian, and CoC to boosting your resilience in those engage-based trades, which means you'd be taking essentially no damage for the first three seconds as far up as level 10. Ninja Tabi/Vow would then be rushed, and champs like Taric and Alistar, who have innate healing, would excel due to the amount of damage reduction they'd end up having inflating the value of their otherwise weak heals.

In addition, there'd be a decent possibility of grabbing Feast (if 0/12/18 isn't absolutely required on them) to synergize with all of that damage reduction and Face of the Mountain, pushing ranged supports even further out of bot lane, due to them likely being largely ineffective early game, which is what most of the ranged supports are picked for outside of intended counter-picks/OPs.

Decent intentions, but I believe it would be far too meta-warping if supports are able to use it at all.

The only way to prevent that is make the range larger (which honestly wouldn't be too bad to top laners, considering they're just barely in exp range if they can't trade or accept the inevitable damage anyway, or to start binding items to summoner spells other than smite, like TP, which would be a really shitty way of going about things.

Critkeeper1 votes

Well on the plus side, if the melee support decided to buy this item first then he'd be foregoing an actual support item, so he'd take a hit to his gold income.

That gives you levels 1-3 as a ranged support to punish the melee support.

In any case, there are ways to make it a worse pickup for supports while still being a good pickup for solo laners. You would just have to increase the trigger buffer from 600 range to something like 800 range, to make it much more difficult for a bot lane support to safely use while still keeping it reasonable for a solo laner.

Alternatively, make it block damage only from the champion you struck with your auto attack, so as to mitigate the effectiveness vs two champions.

WoonStruck1 votes

It likely wouldn't be purchased as first item; the sustain that relic shield offers early game is too invaluable, as well as the gold generation. Lack of potions could be a problem as well.

WoonStruck1 votes

How about:

"If there are no allied or enemy champions within 600 range for 3 seconds"

Don't need this picked up as a freelo engage tool for Leona, Braum, Taric, etc.

Astôlfo1 votes

That'd only affect botlane or ganks. "Melee only" solves the issue with ranged abusing it better.

WoonStruck1 votes

The entire reason Riot wants D-shield relative to other seasons weak is because it becomes must-grab top lane when its strong, leading to tank metas, since they utilize it better and scaling more safely. Too safely.

Then there's supports building it, which, believe it or not, is still an issue on melee supports, as it gives them a drastic advantage over ranged supports, both against ranged supports in lane and overall potential in the support role vs ADCs.

That said, I'm all in favor of a better D-shield, but that IS why Riot's kept it so weak. They're afraid of tanks because they aren't helpless to LoL's ADC/mage overlords when they're strong, since they can actually afford to go full tank, unlike almost every other melee.

Astôlfo1 votes

But… ranged have an inherent advantage in the fact they are ranged and can continually kite just about any melee permanently, not even factoring in most of them either having CC (mages/Rylai's) and/or high MS (Luden's, Zeal evos with speed boost), except for like, Olaf and a few others who can run like Sanic on speed and/or ignore CC.

WoonStruck1 votes

They do, indeed, have that advantage, but Riot's afraid of D-shield being strong because they want top lane to be constant fights that actually have a significant impact each time, as opposed to 'wet-noodle fights'.

I don't see a problem with it, but Riot does.

As far as supports, a strong D-shield like that will almost certainly make hard-engage melee supports meta, with very little opposition outside of strong disengage (Janna every match...yawn) or another hard-engage melee support. Taric, Leona, Braum, Alistar. Every game. Won't that be fun with Knight's Vow being introduced?

Astôlfo1 votes

Fair enough. Good points.

Critkeeper1 votes

{quoted}

How about:

"If there are no allied or enemy champions within 600 range for 3 seconds"

I could see that working too, since it would force bot lane to split off from eachother and open up a window of vulnerability. I don't know if that is a necessary nerf, but its an option in case its too strong vs bot lane.

WoonStruck1 votes

I believe it would be far too strong bot lane, especially if it doesn't specifically block 40 damage from champions' auto attacks.

Critkeeper1 votes

{quoted}

I believe it would be far too strong bot lane, especially if it doesn't specifically block 40 damage from champions' auto attacks.

well tbh bot lane melee supports haven't been doing all that well recently anyway, could use this in place of a buff.

I don't see any reason why melee supports ought to be harassed so hard out early. Early game should be their time to shine, since range becomes the single most valuable stat as the game progresses. The fact that range is also the most valuable stat early game is a just a design mistake.

WoonStruck1 votes

If you look at the professional scene, melee supports are almost always what's picked, outside of Karma, who's considered overloaded, and Nami as a counter to Jhin.

The only reason melees dropped off is because Zyra picked up, and she's flat-out busted atm. There's a reason such a niche hard-counter was being played vs her. Support MF isn't great against any other match-ups. All the others she relies on snowballing.

If melee supports truly got poked out that hard by range as a standard, they wouldn't get used at all in professional since they punish disadvantages much harder, yet they are used there. And no, its not just their teamwork or whatever that allows that. Melee supports are extremely potent when played correctly. Except Leona. She's horrible if she falls behind whether you play correctly or not. Very low neutral-pressure and no direct interactions with her allies.

legionnaire991 votes

What about later in the game when you have 2idems and start grouping

Maximum Morde1 votes

I start Dorans shield on Caitlyn ADC.

Elite4Runner1 votes

I really just want to see a cooler icon

nm10101 votes

Your item is worth over 500 gold without the passive, so it would in no way be fair.

Critkeeper2 votes

{quoted}

Your item is worth over 500 gold without the passive, so it would in no way be fair.

Dorans blade is worth 606 gold. Doran's ring is worth 736 gold without the passive.

nm10101 votes

Doran's blade doesn't have a passive, the ring has a mana passive, you have a combat focused ridiculously strong passive. I mean I know you are biased, but you understand trynd with this would get rage, walk away for 3 seconds then engage on the enemy while taking negative damage from minions and the enemy laner.

After he is done he has hp regen if he managed to take damage + the passive can come back up if he walks away. Meanwhile the enemy laner used mana if they actually wanted to fight back. Not to mention the other abuse cases like yasuo come to mind immediately.

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