Ashe's new W

Linna Excel·Apr 28, 2015·37 votes·2,598 views

Why not make it so if someone takes multiple arrows they at least take slightly extra damage per arrow? I get you want them to be able to block shots and that you don't want it to be too OP at close range, but what about something like +5%-10% damage per extra arrow?

My reasoning is a lot of the time from a practical standpoint it's probably going to be a tank taking extra arrows and they have the armor and health to deal with it. Option B is it's probably an assassin who's going to 1 hit Ashe anyways so why not give her close range counterpunch to leave him just a little bit lower than he would be?

IMO if you are going to make it so that more than one arrow can hit someone, the skill is a shotgun skill and it needs to work like one.

35 Comments

KingsgraveApr 28, 201515 votes

Shes not Graves. They don't want her to use it like Graves. Its just supposed to apply a slow and thats it.

MrBuffingtonApr 28, 20152 votes

That...makes a lot of sense. I don't know about the "only apply a slow" thing, it'll probably still be her nuke, but I don't think anyone wants to see Ashe use it as a point blank shotgun, especially since she's supposed to be long range.

Linna ExcelApr 29, 20152 votes

It just doesn't make sense to see someone take 50 arrows in the face and see the exact same damage done as the guy who took one arrow in the face. Yes know there's a mechanical reason for wanting to do that, but as a player it's very aggravating to see immersion broken so obviously.

PhrixscreothApr 29, 20151 votes

If you're worried about something making sense and immersion breaking, you're already lost to us.

has a moment of silence

But seriously Cynical Giant is correct, it's NOT a shotgun skill, that's grave's thing. Ashe needs to fill her own space.

LïghtkeeperApr 29, 20151 votes

It's really just meant for team widespread cc. Honestly might not even max it first anymore looking at that new Q shit. I might just need to get my hands a little dirty on the rework.

Shrek LuigiApr 29, 20154 votes

Ashe's W is an outrageous poking tool in lane, actually does a lot of damage if you max it first and start stacking AD.

Refund life plsMay 2, 20151 votes

"Use it like Graves" I don't think any self respecting Ashe player is going to walk up to their enemies into melee range to W them? I think OP's suggestion makes sense tbh.

EverTokkiApr 28, 20152 votes

Yes. Pls rito. It doesn't have to be tons of damage, but a lil' bit more.

Newbie SmurfingApr 28, 20152 votes

Agreed.

Critmaster GarenApr 28, 20152 votes

her q is gonna be broken with bork or possibly the new hurricane. have you seen that ability?

shes like a minigun. build attack speed to get up to 5 stacks quicker and then gonna shred anyone with 5 attacks and bork passives per regular auto.

shes not just gonna be a utility carry, but a hyper carry.

im still trying to find out at what point they increased the counterplay to her slows. because it looks to me like they removed the less useful stuff from her kit, kept strenghts and then buffed the hell out of her.

ModWulf HelhammerApr 28, 20152 votes

the BoRK passive only applies to the first hit of the rapid fire Q, not all 5. They will all apply stacks of BC though

Critmaster GarenApr 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

the BoRK passive only applies to the first hit of the rapid fire Q, not all 5. They will all apply stacks of BC though

are you sure? from the video it didnt look like a dot. maybe its just the animation, but it looked like 5 individual auto attacks per shot, which would mean that they all apply on hit effects. which is frankly insane.

especially considering, that she can w a creepwave to max out her focus stacks, before going in with q.

ModWulf HelhammerApr 28, 20153 votes

Here: This is the PBE boards thread where a Rioter answered some questions about her rework

Critmaster GarenApr 28, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Here: This is the PBE boards thread where a Rioter answered some questions about her rework

thanks.

Battlecast SonaApr 29, 20151 votes

There is no reason to build items that are not almost exclusively damage and crit on Ashe. Her passive is way too good not to focus on buffing it up. For reference, if you go botrk on Ashe your passive doesn't scale up at all. With IE, your passive does 160% damage after the first AA. BOTRK into PD is about 140% damage after the first AA. IE into PD is 180%.

Additionally, the "minigun" scales exclusively off of your bonus AD and doesn't apply any on-hit or anything.

I know everyone is talking about botrk on Ashe (and I see why, she scales much better with aspd than she did before), but crit is still gonna be the optimal build for her unless there's some serious nerfing to her passive (which I don't really foresee, aside from maybe giving it a cap cause 3 crit items is 223% damage after the first auto and it's just... insane with her Q doing damage too).

Aych PiiApr 29, 20151 votes

BotRK will only work on Ashe in tandem with Runaan's hurricane, as each shot of her Q (5 per AA) will fire two runaan's bolts. On-hit Ashe would destroy in teamfights.

iamleburkApr 30, 20151 votes

i have a feeling she will be a tank/bruiser counter, but she should be pretty vulnerable to other adcs and bursty apcs. Her laning phase was nerfed through her W, but her map pressure and team fighting were buffed significantly with her E and Q respectively. In other words, she will be a hyper carry, but only in team fights. Pick comps should do well against her, tanky comps not so much.

UberAffeApr 28, 20151 votes

100% agree that there needs to be some kind of scaling for hitting the same target with multiple arrows

AviousApr 28, 20151 votes

I think that there should be a threshold on how many arrows you can eat without taking extra damage. For example, if a champion takes two or three arrows they should be dealt 100% of the ability's damage, but if a tank bodyblocks all the arrows from close range it should be dealt extra damage, maybe +10% extra damage for every arrow blocked (can absorb up to 4 arrows without taking extra damage). Only a champion with a big hitbox could block more than 4 arrows and tanks tend to be pretty bulky (Amumu excluded... Again T_T).

ReikkenApr 28, 20151 votes

That's a buff, which would make her OP. Then they'd have to reduce its damage or remove power somewhere else for her to still be balanced. So no thanks.

HigeRApr 28, 20151 votes

In this case, her new volley is used mostly to apply stacks of focus, once she has 5 stacks (each arrow from volley = 1 stack) her autos with active Q will deal more damage (on top of her passive's bonus damage from crit) so, a tank eating up volley whole will increase ashe's dps against single targets, she doesn't need to keep attacking the target that brought her focus to 5 stacks, she'll fire 3 shots per autos while Q is active.

In this case I feel like volley's new synergy is pretty cool and I don't think they should change it much

ModWulf HelhammerApr 28, 20152 votes

It's actually 5, which means she can shred though tanks like lightning with BC, as each of the shots on her Q will apply a stack (also they will all work with the new BC effects, so she can kite even more with permaslow and almost all the time speed up from the phage)

Vellich0rApr 29, 20152 votes

hadnt even thought of that yet. Dear god, I can see new ashe having black cleaver as a must to wreck tanks days. LW BC ashe would be BRUTAL to tanks I feel. Plus, talk about perma slow with volley, and global vision AND ult would be up like, 20% more.

Vellich0rApr 29, 20151 votes

maybe BC LW ruunans

VenowolfApr 29, 20151 votes

Now that her passive have a perma slow Runnan Hurricane is a core item on her, you can slow everybody on teamfight, with BtrK you can deal an extra dmg too.

I am RazgrizMay 1, 20151 votes

BC replaces LW. Get BotRK, still tank shred from passive.

Vellich0rMay 2, 20151 votes

both would wreck a tanks life though. You need all of that armor shred since you are an ADC without crit. Then you get a Bork to add even further except the secondary arrows from the 5 focus Q don't apply Bork, so you are more getting the Bork so that the 10 or 12 ruunans bolts per auto lifesteal for you with the passive.

I am RazgrizMay 5, 20151 votes

You still have crit, it's still a damage amp. Only your first attack doesn't crit, every hit after the first crits.

Full build for me is Infinity Edge, Lucidity Boots, Runaan's Hurricane, BotRK, BC. Not necessarily in that order.

I'd probably IE first for damage spike and last hitting, boots and scepter for basic utility, then go straight to Runaan's Cleaver because you typically need LW by 3rd item anyway, so we're replacing it but we still have lifesteal and boots. Then either finish boots or scepter depending on needs.

When it's all done you have a decent amount of AD, 40% CDR, and nearly max attack speed any time you press Q. Also, disgusting waveclear.

I am RazgrizMay 1, 20151 votes

once she has 5 stacks (each arrow from volley = 1 stack) her autos with active Q will deal more damage (on top of her passive's bonus damage from crit) so, a tank eating up volley whole will increase ashe's dps against single targets, she doesn't need to keep attacking the target that brought her focus to 5 stacks,

That's not how it works. If W hits 1 target Focus stacks once. If W hits 4 Targets it stacks 4 times. I just tested this to make sure.

HigeRMay 1, 20151 votes

ooooh... well... tbh, that's whack D: it's insta stacked if you have minions around :S

JabbabaxApr 29, 20151 votes

I just think increasing the base damage a little would do the trick

Battlecast SonaApr 29, 20151 votes

So you can't stack 5 stacks of Focus on one person instantly.

Takeuchi 17Apr 29, 20151 votes

I was a bit suprised that they did that but upon reviewing how her q works and the work done to some items like black cleaver or bork it kinda makes sense that her w would be more of something to just slow people than be a damage ability.

her q is now her bread and butter and i personally love the new changes. although i understand what you mean about the shotgun effect, keeping her w the way it was would just make her ridiculous. shes meant to be a long range champ so giving her the slows, long range, and short range damage would just be overdoing it.