Damn Yasuo has such a fun and interactive laning phase

Annie Bot Sucks··42 votes·4,878 views

Me: Damn I can't wait to lane against Yasuo, I heard he was squishy and easy to harass.

Dash

Dash

Dash

Q AA Q

Me: Oh shit, Yasuo's harassing me. Let me harass him back.

Shield

Me: Okay, got his shield down. Let me throw my skillshots at him now that he's within range.

Windwall

Me: Oh nice, so he took no damage that trade.

Dash

Dash

Dash

Oh now he's back behind his minions.

Shield comes back up

Dash

Dash

Dash

Dash

Dash Dash Dash Dash Dash

Wow, this is pretty fun and interactive. He has such abusable cooldowns, I'm having a fucking blast. He's SO weak early!

75 Comments

Harrys Nut Shack13 votes

Yasuo is the Vayne of mid lane. Some people claim he has a weak laning phase but that's bullshit. Vayne and Yasuo's early game isn't that bad and Riven's lategame isn't that bad.

I'm not sure where this belief even came from.

DarthSpectrum15 votes

From people who actually plays Yasuo, Vayne, and Riven?

Even Riot Zirene (Diamond 1) once commentated in an LCS game that Vayne does not win any lane until around 11 minutes when she gets BoTRK.

Granted, there are champions that Vayne and Yasuo counters. For them, the lane is pretty much hell because these champions can't abuse Vayne or Yasuo's early games.

To better explain why they are weak early and Riven late, I will elaborate on my points.

Yasuo starts off with low base health, slightly above 500, low base armor, around 24, and flat 30 MR. He has one of the worse starts of any champion to compensate for his crazy 2x critical chance. If it were not for the AD masteries and offensive runes Yasuo takes, most mid lane mages can literally win if they straight up AA each other.

At level 1, most Yasuo players start Q. Others start E, but assuming that this Yasuo has taken Q, he cannot trade effectively at level 1. After the first minion wave, AA him if you haven't already to pop his 13 second + CD shield, and use your abilities. If he tries to walk up to you to trade back, AA him some more. If he took E, do the same thing. Don't stand near your minions and he can't get to you. He does less damage with E, but is more mobile.

At level 2, he either took E or Q, repeat above. At level 3, just watch for his wind wall. Yasuo might try to E to you and throw out a wind wall to block your CCs. However, he can't kill you in one combo, and W has a ~25 second CD.

At level 6, just watch for his Tornado and knock ups from his Jungler. Don't stay in lane if you are below 35% health. If he gets a knock up, the ultimate will kill you.

The key to playing Yasuo is to take initiative. If you don't pop his shield and he E's on to you, he wins the trade.

Vayne on the other hand, starts off with mediocre ADC stats, and have pretty good AS growth. Her level 1 is not bad, and her level 2 is strong too if she hits it before her opponent.

However, things go down hill for her after level 1/2. She has a 550 AA range. Most champions either out ranges her (Jinx, Caitlyn, etc.) or have some type of damage ability that can out trade her (Graves, Corki, Sivir). Essentially, she shouldn't win trades.

She hits a spike at level 6. However, since Vayne doesn't level Tumble first, her Q is on a ~8 second CD. She still can't beat most ADCs such as Graves, Corki, or Ezreal. Vayne only really starts to shine when she hits level 11 and gets her ~2 second tumbles and BoTRK.

Riven is a strong duelist at all stages of the game. I believe she can do upwards of 810% AD in one combo, and that is not including her shield and stun.

However, she is somewhat weak in team fights. In a large fight, one second of CC might spell death. In a 1 v 1 scenario, most champions with CCs don't have damage, and those that have damage have no or conditional CCs. All of Riven's survivability is banked on her shield. If she gets rooted or stunned and cannot use her shield, she drops extremely quickly.

Secondly. she cannot engage on an enemy without using her offensive abilities. Riven have low CDs, but Broken Wings and Valor can't cover the distance quickly like a Talon or Katarina blink. She needs the enemies to come to her and for them to not focus their CCs on her to be useful.

Harrys Nut Shack3 votes

All of her abilities are AOE including her hard CC. She has fighter base stats and a spammable AD scaling shield which allow her to survive in teamfights.

Vayne condemn any unfavorable trade and poke with empowered AAs from her tumble. Her attack animation is instant, which allows her to poke champions like Kalista and Sivir without being hit back.

Yasuo is the only one I'd agree has a very small window of vulnerability, that is if he didn't have his shield that is literally always up. Mages are so mana hungry early on that you can't even wittle his health down without going OOM thanks to his shield and windwall.

NemeBro6 votes

[{quoted}](name=Harrys Nut Shack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VQlOJ9KA,comment-id=000700010000,timestamp=2015-07-21T04:06:17.606+0000)

All of her abilities are AOE including her hard CC. She has fighter base stats and a spammable AD scaling shield which allow her to survive in teamfights.

Vayne condemn any unfavorable trade and poke with empowered AAs from her tumble. Her attack animation is instant, which allows her to poke champions like Kalista and Sivir without being hit back.

Yasuo is the only one I'd agree has a very small window of vulnerability, that is if he didn't have his shield that is literally always up. Mages are so mana hungry early on that you can't even wittle his health down without going OOM thanks to his shield and windwall.

Riven's base stats are less than almost any fighter I can recall at the moment. Tryndamere, Jax, Darius, Garen, Renekton, Fiora, Wukong, Olaf, Irelia, etc, all have higher base stats than Riven. All have higher base AD than her save Darius. All have higher base HP. All have higher HP regen, obviously. All but Tryndamere have higher base armour. The only fighters I can think of with possibly worse base stats than Riven are Aatrox and, well, Yasuo. Riven's spammable AD shield doesn't mean a damn thing if she's CC'd or hit by DOT abilities.

Vayne's condemn has a range of 550. Most ADCs have abilities beyond that. It's hard to out-trade someone who can hit you from further than a tumble+AA would allow. That said, Vayne may indeed have issues. Compared to someone like Kog'maw or Twitch, her early game does indeed not seem so bad.

Literally always up. It is literally impossible to stop his shield by simply, I don't know, auto attacking it.

Only it's actually easy, and many mages have abilities that are not, in fact, blocked by wind wall. And even if he blocks it, that fucker has a cooldown of like 22 seconds or some shit.

You know, Riven and Vayne at least are good, strong picks. Yasuo? Come on.

Ser Garland6 votes

stats don't matter if every piece in their kit is cancer.

MohawkBird2 votes

She also has the highest burst, most mobility, and the lowest cooldowns of any of the fighters you listed. Let's not forget she doesn't use any resources.

The Bearded Bard1 votes

{quoted}

From people who actually plays Yasuo, Vayne, and Riven?

Even Riot Zirene (Diamond 1) once commentated in an LCS game that Vayne does not win any lane until around 11 minutes when she gets BoTRK.

Granted, there are champions that Vayne and Yasuo counters. For them, the lane is pretty much hell because these champions can't abuse Vayne or Yasuo's early games.

To better explain why they are weak early and Riven late, I will elaborate on my points.

Yasuo starts off with low base health, slightly above 500, low base armor, around 24, and flat 30 MR. He has one of the worse starts of any champion to compensate for his crazy 2x critical chance. If it were not for the AD masteries and offensive runes Yasuo takes, most mid lane mages can literally win if they straight up AA each other.

At level 1, most Yasuo players start Q. Others start E, but assuming that this Yasuo has taken Q, he cannot trade effectively at level 1. After the first minion wave, AA him if you haven't already to pop his 13 second + CD shield, and use your abilities. If he tries to walk up to you to trade back, AA him some more. If he took E, do the same thing. Don't stand near your minions and he can't get to you. He does less damage with E, but is more mobile.

At level 2, he either took E or Q, repeat above. At level 3, just watch for his wind wall. Yasuo might try to E to you and throw out a wind wall to block your CCs. However, he can't kill you in one combo, and W has a ~25 second CD.

At level 6, just watch for his Tornado and knock ups from his Jungler. Don't stay in lane if you are below 35% health. If he gets a knock up, the ultimate will kill you.

The key to playing Yasuo is to take initiative. If you don't pop his shield and he E's on to you, he wins the trade.

Vayne on the other hand, starts off with mediocre ADC stats, and have pretty good AS growth. Her level 1 is not bad, and her level 2 is strong too if she hits it before her opponent.

However, things go down hill for her after level 1/2. She has a 550 AA range. Most champions either out ranges her (Jinx, Caitlyn, etc.) or have some type of damage ability that can out trade her (Graves, Corki, Sivir). Essentially, she shouldn't win trades.

She hits a spike at level 6. However, since Vayne doesn't level Tumble first, her Q is on a ~8 second CD. She still can't beat most ADCs such as Graves, Corki, or Ezreal. Vayne only really starts to shine when she hits level 11 and gets her ~2 second tumbles and BoTRK.

Riven is a strong duelist at all stages of the game. I believe she can do upwards of 810% AD in one combo, and that is not including her shield and stun.

However, she is somewhat weak in team fights. In a large fight, one second of CC might spell death. In a 1 v 1 scenario, most champions with CCs don't have damage, and those that have damage have no or conditional CCs. All of Riven's survivability is banked on her shield. If she gets rooted or stunned and cannot use her shield, she drops extremely quickly.

Secondly. she cannot engage on an enemy without using her offensive abilities. Riven have low CDs, but Broken Wings and Valor can't cover the distance quickly like a Talon or Katarina blink. She needs the enemies to come to her and for them to not focus their CCs on her to be useful.

You act like minions don't exist when fighting yasuo. If you poke him with autoattacks you get raped by minions. Level one, mages don't have a lot of power. After that, most are gated by mana. Yasuo can take lifesteal runes, bring a lot of health potions, build lifesteal, etc to make up for his lack of sustain. Now poking him is relatively useless because you'll run oom before you manage to kill him and 100-0ing him is very difficult due to his shield aaaaaaaaaaaand wind wall.

As for Vayne, I'll say to you exactly what I say to everyone else that claims Vayne has a bad early game. Her early game is incredibly safe. Tumble lets you dodge skillshots and whatnot, condemn peels away anyone that jumps on top of her. Once she hits 6 and grabs cutlass she can now kill you consistently whenever her ult is up and there's really not much you can do about it because you can't upgrade sweeper until lvl 9, so unless you've got a lee sin bot with you or you want to spend a bunch on pink wards that'll just get killed right after the fight, you don't have many options. On top of all that, she has a support with her to babysit her and make sure nothing goes wrong. Champs like Braum Alistar Morgana Shen Thresh Sona Soraka that make bad early games redundant because they give so much safety. So to recap, her early game is extremely safe and not nearly as bad as her late game warrants, and she's got a support to add more safety to make sure she reaches that unstoppable late game.

Now Riven is pretty badly effected by CC, you're right, but she's not meant to be an initiator. Send in your own disables and tanks first then have Riven hop in and penta. She's also got 4 different ways to dodge your skillshots, so hope you've brought some targeted CC. There's also QSS but we'll continue to ignore that that item exists. But the thing that makes Riven as fucking disgusting as she is is her ability to do shit she's not supposed to be able to do. Riot never intended her to be able to cancel her animations and it gives her a ridiculous amount of power she isn't supposed to have.

insaiyanbacca1 votes

i thought most vayne's max q first?

dr lichdeath1 votes

well it is weak in comparison with some other early players its all in comparison with the avg of all champions and they are under the avg thus they have been said to have a weak early

FatesDefiler10 votes

this thread is bullshit. yasuo's been nerfed to shit and you're not funny. if he's so good, then play him yourself. posting in a troll thread.

Annie Bot Sucks18 votes

{quoted}

this thread is bullshit. yasuo's been nerfed to shit and you're not funny. if he's so good, then play him yourself. posting in a troll thread.

"This thread is bullshit" Okay, nice argument. "Yasuo's been nerfed to shit." So has Ahri. Ahri is the most nerfed champion in League history; google it. She's still viable and beyond snowbally. "If he's so good, then play him yourself." Alright. What if I do play him myself? Will that somehow make him balanced? I play champions because I like them, not because they're good.

SpecterVonBaren5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Annie Bot Sucks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VQlOJ9KA,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-07-21T02:56:14.587+0000)

So has Ahri. Ahri is the most nerfed champion in League history; google it. She's still viable and beyond snowbally.

Really? I thought it was Vlad that was the most nerfed.

ComannderShepard1 votes

I thought it was irellia because better nerf irellia

Annie Bot Sucks2 votes

{quoted}

I thought it was irellia because better nerf irellia

She's been nerfed thrice. In three years.

ChaoticPinecone1 votes

It wasnt the past 3 years that the meme came from. it was from the string of patches after her release (in 2010).

Lajneen1 votes

Most nerfed doesn't mean hardest nerfed. Every Ahri nerf combined is a love tap compared to the Kassadin ''rework''.

cloudbreaker9910 votes

90% of mid laners are ranged:

  1. AA his shield
  2. Free lane
Annie Bot Sucks3 votes

{quoted}

90% of mid laners are ranged:

  1. AA his shield
  2. Free lane

AA's shield

Dash

Dash

Dash

Q AA AA

Dash

Dash

Nice AA.

LaySF5 votes

Back off

Wait for wall to go down

26 Second window of no wall

Poke

???

Win

KONO RUBICK DA1 votes

0 dmg 0 dmg 0 dmg 0 dmg

CasterGilgamesh1 votes

you do realize that minions will hit you after you AA him right? then he dashes to you and just QQQQQ until flash out of his range or just run

Sinneli8 votes

Viktor : My Empowered autoattack is not a projectile. (Does more damage than the shield holds after getting a Sheen) Anivia : I hope you like some air conditioning because it's about to get cold. (No need to aim. Your projectile is on low CD and the more the guy zips around, the more damage he takes from that zone of blizzards) Karthus : I'm sorry. What's this about... 'projectiles' that I hear? (Granted can't aim for shit but if he runs out, W and slow him for life) Malzahar : Space aids. DoTs for life. Brand : Click and shred.

FyshinaTux7 votes

Cool

Story

Bro.

Needs

More

Line

Breaks

Though.

:\

Better

Luck

Next

Time

I

Guess.

Durzaka7 votes

Yasuo is literally shit tier right now.

How are people STILL complaining about him

Leaf of the lake5 votes

Because a champ having outplay mechanics means they must be broken, obv

Ketchup253 votes

I don't get it either he is like any melee adc cc him=profit and if he does not get a good ultimate in a teamfight he is practically useless and much worse then any other melee adc.

Stiv12343 votes

Maybe because hes the second most toxic and infuriating little piece of annoyingness that Riot ever has allowed to go live except for Kalista ?

AutoreactiveCD41 votes

Yes yasuo sucks right now. I actually cant remember the last time I lost because a yasuo carried the game. I hate him because he is annoying to LANE against. It's because of the combination of his low cd dashes, the shield, windwall and Q3 (which he can hold for 10 seconds).

The thing that REALLY pisses me off about yasuo is I also consider him a giant middle finger to braum. Riot talked about how they had to take so much power away from braum's kit just to give him that wall...

Yasuo's wall: Lasts longer until braum maxes his, then they last THEY SAME AMOUNT OF TIME Blocks all projectiles, doesn't take any damage at all Is just as large at rank 1 and gets even bigger with points Costs no mana

Braum's wall: Movable Lower CD

The worst part about this is Yasuo came out first and Riot insists that the almighty Braum wall must be something he is balanced around.

Durzaka1 votes

Braum also has a targeted ally leap, which lets him instantly get into position to shield something.

Yasuo doesnt have that ability.

AutoreactiveCD41 votes

I was looking at single abilities there but when you include others I still don't think it's that great.

Braum is can defend his teammates well with his wall.

Yas can get to the enemy backline and shove that wall in front of their face. This one is annoying as all sin. Yas can set the wall up for his backline then dive their backline. Let's not forget that yas can still murder you while he has this high utility wall, they nerfed braum when they thought he was doing too much damage.

I GANK LANES7 votes

lol are you serious? his laning phase is stupid weak now. his shield goes down with 1 aa lmao

SnugglePuggle946 votes

Love it, thats funny! On the topic of Yasuo, I hate that champ and wish he never was even made.

ChaosThief6 votes

I think the solution to that is banning yasuo.

Blind pick? RIP, my friend.

######on a more serious note, he could have his dashes work on a charge system of 3 or something so he can't just dash anywhere he wants.

Stars Shaper1 votes

Then you also got to remove the available target requirement. That is the real CD in the skill.

ShadowParker3 votes

Yasuo wouldn't be so bad, if either 2 things happened: -His dash speed got reduced -Other players got a small visual indicating where he will land.

NamiMainFromHK3 votes

his dash is so damn broken and annoying

Silents4292 votes

Never really had a problem dominating a lane again Yasuo as Lux Galio Swain

Pretty sure this scenario is only setup to prove your point rather then be realistic.

SpecterVonBaren1 votes

Not sure why you're bringing up Swain when only one of his abilities is a skillshot (And even then it has no travel time so Windwall can't block it) though.

Silents4291 votes

Hear me out, but I bring him up because he is a mid laner.

He also has no skill shots, and apart from his W the rest of his abilities shoot projectiles that his wind wall can block.

Stars Shaper1 votes

You never played Yasuo against a Singed have you? Try it vs AI and tell me how easy it was (probably gonna be easier now that Q has low cd as start but still..)

Bard in a Diaper2 votes

sounds like he just counters the champions you play? any point and click champion dumpsters yasuo. He is just melee kalista.

Fiora/annie/kat/etc all have a field day with yasuo and there is NO counterplay he can do either. what champs are you playing where u have so much trouble?

Annie Bot Sucks2 votes

Everyone only lists counter picks as if that's a valid excuse for how fucking terrible it is to lane against Yasuo if your kit doesn't inherently counter his. Wtf.

Ketchup254 votes

He does like any other melee adc he is weak to CC very weak to CC. If he does not land a good ultimate in a teamfight he is useless. His Windwall might block a good CC spell but it has a goddamn long cooldown and people never buy cooldown on him because it's worthless on him.

A Sterling Bee2 votes

Yasuo is pretty easy to lane against just dodge his tornado. I win against yasuo all the time with Twisted Fate you just have to have patience. .

TotalJerk2 votes

I was actually winning lane against Yasuo. He starting spamming his dash every .5 seconds. Looking at it made me so angry that such a fucking thing even exists that I started tilting.

A Miss Fortune2 votes

People complain about Yasuo's unviability so much, but I see almost no issue with him in terms of him being underpowered. He's overloaded and is strong throughout the game, most people who play him have no idea how to and end up feeding, most likely due to his high skill base. But whenever he gets a kill I just feel that It's the most cheap kill I've ever seen, and the worst part is that anyone with half a brain can 1v5 with Yasuo due to his powerful late game that not a lot of people can challenge. I think Yasuo needs multiple nerfs before he even gets a single buff. The entire champion concept is flawed that a squishy person should have so much mobility on top of so much defense with so much offensive power all of which increases significantly as the game goes on.

iainB851 votes

Honestly, he wins versus most champions at level 2 when he gets his dash Q dash combo it does a ton of practically unavoidable damage.

However, if you are patient and don't let him jump from minions to you for free Q poke damage very early game, it becomes very easy to out trade him on almost every champion as you get higher ranks of spells.

MarkedOfKane1 votes

I found the best way to lane against Yasuo is to auto him to proc his passive then have at him. If he windwalls, they he is completely open to be attacked. This works usually but it also depends if he is just going to slide onto you and slash you open. Just something you have to deal with.

Celeste Benal1 votes

Yasuo can easily push the lane early. So easily in fact that its hard for him to farm lane because it is almost always pushed up under his opponent's turret. His E is completely useless without neutral monsters, minions, or champs to which he can dash. But this does let him roam.

His shield is for all intents and purposes, non-existent. It is easily procced and takes forever to recharge. His Windwall is also on a very long cooldown. But that at least blocks all projectiles.

Champs like Heimer and Karthus take a big huge dump right in his face because of their endless poke and ranged attacks. Annie's stun absolutely obliterates him. Any hard CC obliterates Yasuo. Doing good magic damage forces him to build something other than his core SS and IE items.

Don't let Yasuo feed. He is extremely item dependent. Harass, harass, and harass some more. If you keep him off the farm through either harass or freezing the lane right at your turret, he will rapidly fall behind. When he roams because lane is pushed, ping MIA repeatedly. If he is out doing scuttle crab, he is screwing his jungler of gold. If he is taking his chickens, he is screwing his jungler of gold and the smite buff. If he is taking your chickens, you need to do something about it.

YossarianSensei1 votes

Why do you even assume he's supposed to be weak early? He's not that much stronger than other champs in the late game just like how most champs aren't that much stronger than him in the early game. Healthy design doesn't revolve around black and white power spikes.

He has pretty obvious vulnerabilities, you don't have to beat him in lane to win the game.

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