Did cetrainlyT trully said that ?

Knight SoIaire ·Aug 10, 2015·27 votes·2,840 views

I didnt see the post itself and im too lazy to look for it but the word is that certainlyT said "i cant make mordekaiser healthy in a solo lane"

48 Comments

BastionKrossAug 10, 201538 votes

I believe him when he says that he can't make Morde healthy in a solo lane. Mostly because CerT has never made a champion that's healthy in a solo lane (or duo lane Kalista ) without the live balance team heavily nerfing his creations down first.

Knight SoIaire Aug 10, 201516 votes

thats a good one

TotalJerkAug 10, 201513 votes

Something approximation that. But Riot has an issue where they have a completely logical and sensible reason to do something, but decides to give bullshit explanations instead of telling the truth.

RetillinAug 10, 20152 votes

Yeah, imagine if the reason for the Mord change was something like this: "we want to try and making something new with Mord. Something unlike other champions while retaining his feel. And we think this path can work".

stuartk11Aug 10, 201510 votes

To give you a quote from the PBE thread:

"As others mentioned, Morde is still able to solo lane/jungle in our testing, but doesn't shine as brightly as he does in a duo lane. I'm comfortable with that mainly because I do not think that Mordekaiser can ever be a marquee example of a healthy solo lane champion given how stark his strengths and weakness profile is -- An excessive number of his lane matchups are determined either at champion select or through jungler intervention, not through the relative skill of Mordekaiser and his lane opponent."

ArkenStormAug 10, 20157 votes

which honestly is what his job was supposed to be, MAKE him a marquee example of a healthy solo lane champion WITH those strengths and weaknesses.

Kuroi86Aug 11, 20155 votes

Sion When Morde gets this level of a rework, he'll be a healthy solo laner.

ArkenStormAug 11, 20151 votes

what's your point? whatever level of work was required, it should have happened, because a few years down the road he will need to be reworked again. Also I don't agree, Morde needs/needed minor tweaks to his kit and he would have been healthy

Kuroi86Aug 11, 20151 votes

In the mean time they are trying to do what they can to make playing Morde a healthier experience, admittedly these are hit or miss as there is no telling what will happen when he hits live and millions of players get their hands on him.

I don't see it. Mordes whole shtick is being unbeatable at close range. Either you are too far away for him to take you down, you drop so much burst he can't possibly hope to counter attack or have your jungler join you and lock him down until you can kill him. Otherwise if Morde gets a chance to turn then it's very likely you may hand him a double kill. All he is is raw damage, you can only tweak that so much. And putting any form of utility like a gap closer or CC on that kit is just way too much without HEAVILY nerfing his damage.

ArkenStormAug 11, 20151 votes

the last mini-rework they did was awesome and put him in a great spot. Low cooldown, sustained damage, not burst. Thats how I play him anyway. Like from there more tweaking would have done it I think. like the E change CertainlyT put out. I thought that was a pretty good change. this is how I build him currently and it works really well. item 3065 item 3158 item 3152 item 3151 item 3116 item 3157

MetalGearTeemuAug 10, 20154 votes

I read this as "characters is clear strengths and weakness can never be healthy solo laners"

This is the mind of riot right now. This is the cancerous mindset making this games disgusting mobility and power creep happen.

Riot, if you think you can eliminate counter-lane matchups, you might as well just make all heros lee sin.

its not too far from what you're already trying to do with the mobility creep anyway. If everyones lee sin everyone makes big plays, and everyone has no weaknesses.

stuartk11Aug 10, 20152 votes

It's mostly an issue of not everyone having equal balance of strengths and weaknesses. Some champions have very few weaknesses in their kit, but plenty of strengths. If a champion is going to have few strengths and a lot of weaknesses, those strengths better be reinforced with steel beams. Otherwise there really is a massive balance disparity. I find it very entertaining when Riot decide to buff characters with little weakness, with the main point being that they don't have enough strengths. They don't really create a balance between the two, and it has lead to many problems in the past.

stealthfox94Aug 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I read this as "characters is clear strengths and weakness can never be healthy solo laners"

This is the mind of riot right now. This is the cancerous mindset making this games disgusting mobility and power creep happen.

Riot, if you think you can eliminate counter-lane matchups, you might as well just make all heros lee sin.

its not too far from what you're already trying to do with the mobility creep anyway. If everyones lee sin everyone makes big plays, and everyone has no weaknesses.

Please uninstall.

VoidgolemAug 10, 20159 votes

to be fair, there really isn't a way to make Mordekaiser's playstyle healthy in a solo lane while still leaving him sufficiently mordekaiser-like.

Comes from having to build him as a burst dude: Either your burst is good enough to essentially insta-ghost a guy (which is oppressive), or it's not (and morde's therefore worthless aside from pushing lanes).

ErockandrollAug 10, 20153 votes

{quoted}

to be fair, there really isn't a way to make Mordekaiser's playstyle healthy in a solo lane while still leaving him sufficiently mordekaiser-like.

Comes from having to build him as a burst dude: Either your burst is good enough to essentially insta-ghost a guy (which is oppressive), or it's not (and morde's therefore worthless aside from pushing lanes).

Awkward, since Riot has thrown him in with the Juggernauts. It seemed for a while that they were trying to shift him from a burst mage to a Bruiser.

Riot had stated that he could probably use a Sion level rework, but there are other champion ahead of him. And they're giving us this in the mean time. Though the scarier part is, if the Duo lane aspect actually grows on us and on riot, that they might want to preserve that, even after such rework.

Though personally, I could go either way. Mord isn't defined by his lane assignment, but his abilities.

VoidgolemAug 10, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Awkward, since Riot has thrown him in with the Juggernauts. It seemed for a while that they were trying to shift him from a burst mage to a Bruiser.

Riot had stated that he could probably use a Sion level rework, but there are other champion ahead of him. And they're giving us this in the mean time. Though the scarier part is, if the Duo lane aspect actually grows on us and on riot, that they might want to preserve that, even after such rework.

Though personally, I could go either way. Mord isn't defined by his lane assignment, but his abilities.

they're still throwing him in as a bruiser: you're pretty clearly intended to get Titanic Hydra and other beefy gear with the rework.

Won't fix his big kiting weakness but then again it's not supposed to - that's what allied CC is for.

Trash ADC BtwAug 10, 20153 votes

Which is countered by enemy CC being double-yours in bot since Morde brings nothing and most ADCs do. Yay!

RetillinAug 10, 20152 votes

Can you imagine a bot lane Mord and support vs Kalista/Thresh? Wow...

Trash ADC BtwAug 10, 20152 votes

Jinx/Thresh, dude. Jinx/Thresh.

Crowe StalkerAug 11, 20151 votes

Literally just Ashe or Kalista alone will make contributing anything impossible.

TwitchInMyPantsAug 11, 20152 votes

{quoted}

to be fair, there really isn't a way to make Mordekaiser's playstyle healthy in a solo lane while still leaving him sufficiently mordekaiser-like.

Comes from having to build him as a burst dude: Either your burst is good enough to essentially insta-ghost a guy (which is oppressive), or it's not (and morde's therefore worthless aside from pushing lanes).

So that Targons-->Ninja Tabi->Phage->Trinity Force->Raptor Cloak->Rylai's on his nerfed scaling kit with him relying on a buddy to be around to be allowed to have even half decent pushing is totally the way to go right?

I don't understand why this couldn't have gone like the Sion route focusing on keeping his iconic skills while working with his thematics to make him a bruiser, instead he's this squishy botlane hybrid that's going to get played for a week for the novelty of being new and then people are going to realize there isn't any real advantage to it and go back to playing normally. I mean hell I don't even mind the idea of him being a botlaner that much but they just did not give him any tools to use.

Think of someone like Jinx who has amazing single target AS, two solid ranged pokes, tower shredding, as well as cc and a global execute. She accomplishes Morde's main tasks - pushing and dealing damage - much better than he ever will because she has range, cc, scaling, and reasonable base stats. Hell even if you don't think an ADC is a reasonable comparison I'd rather have Rumble botlane since he at least will scale and be able to bully to an extent. I'd rather have Jarvan botlane because he has strong base damage and can burst to kill things. All Morde has is he can push with the dragon a few times a game -maybe- if his team gets ahead somehow.

LearndingAug 11, 20151 votes

{quoted}

to be fair, there really isn't a way to make Mordekaiser's playstyle healthy in a solo lane while still leaving him sufficiently mordekaiser-like.

Comes from having to build him as a burst dude: Either your burst is good enough to essentially insta-ghost a guy (which is oppressive), or it's not (and morde's therefore worthless aside from pushing lanes).

Obviously. When you get to a point in power creep where champions created earlier in the development cease to exist in the meta, you can't place them anywhere without completely destroying their kit or reworking them entirely. It has nothing to do with Mord, it has everything to do with making new champions that are clearly beneficial to their role then making them borderline over-powered so they dominate the lane, forcefully pushing out all other champions and inserting a set meta of 8 or 9 champions that will be played on replay till the next patch.

TerffAug 10, 20155 votes

http://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/KhcvQBlG-mordekaiser-change-summary-feedback-thread?comment=0002000000000000

Knight SoIaire Aug 10, 201510 votes

I did feel sorry for the guy ... for all the hate he gets well that's a thing of the past now

How ? he is the one who makes him How can a man who makes a champion say that he cant make him work ...

He has so much space for his imagination he has the entire theme of a dark mage/warlock available to him he has the entire theme of a metal giant available to him he has the entire theme of magnetism available to him

And he cant think of anything to make mordekaiser good ? Add to the fact that he is the designer known for being the most innovative and the most creative one ... which backfires often during balance but that's for other time

Whatever he just did ... is plain bs Seeing that claim coming from him i actually feel like supporting all the people who want him fired ... because he just took the easy way of throwing the task of his back

Lajinn5Aug 10, 20153 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VPydglgR,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-08-10T15:28:11.370+0000)

I did feel sorry for the guy ... for all the hate he gets well that's a thing of the past now

How ? he is the one who makes him How can a man who makes a champion say that he cant make him work ...

He has so much space for his imagination he has the entire theme of a dark mage/warlock available to him he has the entire theme of a metal giant available to him he has the entire theme of magnetism available to him

And he cant think of anything to make mordekaiser good ? Add to the fact that he is the designer known for being the most innovative and the most creative one ... which backfires often during balance but that's for other time

Whatever he just did ... is plain bs Seeing that claim coming from him i actually feel like supporting all the people who want him fired ... because he just took the easy way of throwing the task of his back

To be honest there's probably some limit to how much he can change him, hell, Riot said even with a rework he's probably going to still need a fullblown Sion-level rework at some point, these are just band-aid fixes. He's probably avoiding changing the way current Morde works to much because soon he'll need to be completely redesigned anyways. Notice how all the changes still keep his abilities somewhat similar to how they were, just a bit different

ArkenStormAug 10, 20154 votes

Man, I love those bandaids made of acid that burn you and make it worse!

RetillinAug 10, 20152 votes

I'm glad I never found those in the local super-market...

Crowe StalkerAug 11, 20152 votes

This (rework) is the equivalent of Riot telling Mordekaiser he needs Sunshine and a light tan... and then chaining him down naked outside on a sunny ninety degree day on the beach without Sunscreen for five hours. You aren't tanning, you are only going to get a major if not life-threatening sunburn and invite skin cancer sooner rather than later in your life.

In this case it's going to be cancer for you and your entire team for picking Mordekaiser instead of cancer for your enemy laner and possibly their carry if you can get in range.

ArkenStormAug 11, 20151 votes

I can't really tell if you were agreeing or not :P but I was referring to the "bandaid fix" that isn't really a fix at all

Crowe StalkerAug 11, 20151 votes

I am agreeing with you. Will edit (massively) for clarification.

ArkenStormAug 11, 20151 votes

no youre fine, I thought you were, but I wasn't sure. :P

COWmanLordAug 10, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hagane No Arashi,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VPydglgR,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-08-10T15:28:11.370+0000)

I did feel sorry for the guy ... for all the hate he gets well that's a thing of the past now

How ? he is the one who makes him How can a man who makes a champion say that he cant make him work ...

He has so much space for his imagination he has the entire theme of a dark mage/warlock available to him he has the entire theme of a metal giant available to him he has the entire theme of magnetism available to him

And he cant think of anything to make mordekaiser good ? Add to the fact that he is the designer known for being the most innovative and the most creative one ... which backfires often during balance but that's for other time

Whatever he just did ... is plain bs Seeing that claim coming from him i actually feel like supporting all the people who want him fired ... because he just took the easy way of throwing the task of his back

What he was saying is that given mordekaiser's current kit, it would be hard to fit him into solo lanes in a healthy way. Current mordekaiser will typically have his lane decided either by champion match up or by jungles shifting the balance of power in lane. The skill level of the mordekaiser has very little influence on whether he will win or lose.

Let me give you a few examples of this.

One game I played mordekaiser vs gangplank (old gp not the new one). The matchup was incredibly one sided. It was that I outplayed the gp or that he did anything wrong, he just couldn't fight me. My shield made it so that a lot of his poke was blocked, and he didn't have the range to avoid poke while still farming effectively. The junglers never ganked but there was nothing gangplank could do on his own. He didn't even feed very much. He just couldn't do anything.

A different game I played against shyvana. I was doing ok until the jungler ganked. As flash was my only escape it was not very hard to kill me. After that I couldn't fight shyvana at all. In a straight up fight she would win and I couldn't try to kite or run away because she could stick to me easily.

The main reason he is in this situation is because all of us abilities are pure damage. There is no out play potential. Mordekaiser is currently a "can I kill this person" kind of champion. There is no "if" added anywhere such as "if I land my stun" or "if I dodge that skill shot". This kind of champion ends up being pretty unhealthy in solo lanes, because , as stated, the entire match up is decided by champion choice and jungler interference, with very little impact from player skill.

Putting him in bot lane could be a good fix to this problem. Adc is already a role that in many circumstances is lacking is cc so there is less the team misses out on. The addition of a support adds another factor to the "can I get this kill" equation.

Themes of dark Mage, metal giant, and magnetism might be interesting themes, but they also aren't exactly what the current mordekaiser is. The goal of this rework is to try and find a better place for mordekaiser, at least until riot can go and give the Sion level rework it could take to make mordekaiser completely healthy.

It's also very easy to say he can't make something work. You can't really make Caitlyn work as a jungler with what she currently has, and Mundo wouldn't make a good adc.

Most of the hate really is coming from the fact that people love to hate CertainlyT and that people always scream about change. There is always a group of people calling for the balance team to be fired every patch. CertainlyT just so happens to be the flavor of the month for things to hate right now.

terkmcAug 11, 20152 votes

Well the rework still work the same. The entire match up is decided by support choice and it is support that is making the outplay and Morde is a damage canon. Now lanes are not even won in champion select, game are won based on whether or not his teammate are around. He's a titan of murder and he should not have to rely on anybody

WolfBVAug 11, 20151 votes

Veigar/Syndra are dark mages, guess Blitzcrank is a metal giant, magnetism. No champion for magnetism yet. Maybe using his W on a wave and reactivating it pulls the minions towards him which he can then throw the wave idk XD

SantanaTheSlick Aug 10, 20154 votes

Fuck certainlyT i haven't forgave him for Darius Kalista Thresh that asshole shouldn't be touching champions

YasuoJungleorAFKAug 10, 20152 votes

Yasuo

DreamLeviathanAug 10, 20152 votes

It's not something people really want to hear, and certainly isn't a solution people seem very keen on, but he does have a point. Morde's among the most binary of the binaries, and there's not a lot of room to fix that without majorly changing the champion.

Which might happen some day and appease what people want a lot better, but that just wasn't the scope that was slated for this group of updates.

Knight SoIaire Aug 10, 20152 votes

my sad face is sad

if they meant to change him ... and to change him like that instead of doing some major work

they could just leave him be and get on him when they can do some major work

DalaninAug 10, 20152 votes

New mordekaiser Deals tons of Damage and is Uber tanky, so idk why ppl are complaining

terkmcAug 11, 20153 votes

Because he is shoe horned into a role thats:

Not fitting thematically
Not fitting with how he is normally played

In addition with CertainlyT method of putting finger in his ear and screaming lalalala and we have pissed off people

VoidgolemAug 10, 20151 votes

CertainlyT didn't make Mordekaiser, though.

All he's responsible for is making the reworked morde that the forums hate without having actually used.

ArkenStormAug 10, 20155 votes

I've used it, it sucks. unless you are in a mirror lane, then it depends on skill. Which, being a morde main, I destroyed. I also had an ali supp.

agbudarAug 10, 20151 votes

yea it was on somewhere somewhere.

rG ThundragAug 11, 20151 votes

I've actually seen a few people just go nearly full tank top lane morde on the pbe with builds like

item 3742 item 3143 item 3001 (reworked abyssal btw) item 3111 item 3065 (new item Titanic Hydra)

I tried it myself and it was pretty funny results wise nigh unkillable unless 1v3'd cause you had 4k hp and a massive shield 1k total with the 15% shield strength per target hit on E. You'd use the titantic hydra as an auto reset for q to get burst going (example aa q -> titanic immediately auto for 2nd q) and with the way q worked even with minimal amount of damage items it still does like 1200 damage total

DalaninAug 11, 20151 votes

Try with that item that gives you 25% extra dmg and lemme know yer results

Silents429Aug 11, 20151 votes

I am curious, what exactly do people think can make his current kit healthy in a solo lane, his passive is utterly stupid for example.

Hyrum GraffAug 11, 20151 votes

People are taking that quote way out of context.

CT could take Morde and make him healthy in a solo lane by giving him some utility and outplay potential... but then he wouldn't be morde any more and the forums would be ablaze that CT killed Morde.