Okay look, tanks are doing too much damage.

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wiki is not an official LoL site...... besides ingame as riot stated these symbols are a reference to those subclasses and riots/devs opinion.

Thank makes no sense, since those are the same icons that existed before subclasses exist and were assigned to champs not too long ago based on their primary classes, as in what they actually are.

again when using the champions info link garen is shown under the tag fighter AND tank.

And Xerath is a mage and assassin, Azir is a mage and marksmen, Teemo is a marksmen and assassin. Your point?

its because olaf, shyvana, darius and garen are tanks.

Tanky, not tanks. There is indeed a difference. The difference being that tanks (which when people say this they mean the actual class) have durability, engage and disengage potential, and CC/debuffs.

look at their kits better, garen has a spin thats being buffed, a speed boost a defence boost and a instakill ult, doesn't sound like a kit a fighter would have and darius is garen but on the bad side. shyvana is mostly unkillable.

Actually, that does sound likena kit a fighter would have. Damage, slight speed-up to stick in the fight, one defensive skill, and more damage. Also, “instakill”? Execution. It’s only an “instakill” when he enemy is below 30% health. Takes work to get there.

Sounds like you fought a Shyvana that had great dragon control, since she mostly builds attack speed and on-hit anyway.

heck are we even playing the same game O.o? why are you people flat out denying tanks don't do what their role insist? and you seem to try to smooth talk the fking problem away here O.o

Oh, I’m saying tanks do their job, but that fighters are not tanks. Claiming that tanks deal too much damage then list Darius, Garen, etc, it actually contradicts your argument. No one will take a claim like this seriously when someone throws in Darius and Garen as tanks for their evidence.

FACT = these champions tank as much damage as a so called ''true tank''

Possibly true, but these champs have to build a few damage items first.

FACT = these champions cause as much damage as any other champ

Cause..they build damage..their kits are designed around dealing damage.

FACT = these champions still have CC

Not really. Morde has 0 CC. Garen just has his silence on Q. Darius has a short ranged hook and a very close ranged slow. Shyvana’s only CC is on her ult. Illaoi’s only CC is a slow when the target leaves her test of spirit or she beats the spirit down. Most of the times they only have a slow, if that.

FACT = these champions all have a form of mobility

False. Darius has no mobility, Illaoi has a very minor mobility spell, more of an AA modifier. Garen’s mobility is a small speed boost. Shyvana’s only mobility is on her ult, same as Olaf. Trundle has 0 mobility spells unless you count his speed up on his frozen terrain. Most of them have speed ups, which will still get screwed over by hard CC and slows.

consider the facts and discuss around that, instead of this weird tug of war, deciding what champion is what, they just fulfill 2 roles and its WRONG.

I’m considering those “facts” and others. Look at a real tank and see they have much less damage than the fighters but have a bigger impact in teamfights.

Fighter: Fact - based around dealing damage Fact - relatively durable, ranging from Jax to Mundo levels of durability. Fact - usually splitpushers, since the damage they build and the lesser impact in teamfights push thhem toward focusing on taking towers and drawing attention from the team. Fact - build 1-3 damage items, then into defense, which actually makes most of them less durable Fact for some - sustain (Trundle and Garen passives, Darius Q, Udyr Turtle stance)

Tank: Fact - based around controlling the enemy team in teamfights Fact - kits are based around engage, counter-engage, or disengage. Fact - terrible objective taking due to building no damage.

but ok lets go by your logic : http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Warden_champion http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Vanguard_champion all of these champions tank like crazy and cause massive damage.

Hahahahaha. Don’t make me laugh. I’m gonna need to see some hard evidence of these claims you are making.

heck i instakill people with malphite.

I’m at level 5 with Malphite, never once Instakilled people. The only possible way he couldnwas if he built full AP to maximize his 100% AP ult, but then he cannot tank very well.

and yes zac can still instakill.

Mm..no he can’t.

so can gragas with that bs damage.

Gragas is an abomination. Few disagree with that. But still, he still has to build more damage to do his insane damage.

ornn the unkillable tank causing 1000000000 damage.....

......Ornn main here. His damage is all in his W. If you stand there and take the full W for 20% max HP (personally not a fan, but it’s still fairly unreliably), then that’s your own fault. Ornn’s “1000000000” damage is probably fluff anyway from his W’s AoE in teamfights.

and buffing items..... oh look sion is there i mean wtf his kit is fighter oriented, he even lowers defence why the fk would he be considered tank????? he has no hard cc or Z.O.C.

So Sion lowering defence makes a fighter kit, but Garen doesn’t have a tank kit? What?? That makes 0 sense. Sion’s damage is all locked behind mega unreliability, like charging up Q or hitting a long range ult. But the facets of his mit are still around his CC. The damage is to make upnfor how hard it is to hit his skills.

Also, Sion has hard CC in his Q and his ult.

poppy destroys just about anyone in a duel.....

Debatable. But a good chunk of her power relies on hittig E into a wall, getting the enemy to dash while within her W, and hitting a very low range Q. She no longer has an ult if she wants to keep you in the fight, and even a no charge ult makes the target untargetable for the knockup, so no damage can happen during that time. Also depends on who she is dueling. She will lose to any duelist like Fiora, Yi, etc.

have you seen galio damage????

Galio has been pulled from building full tank to building AP bruiser (1-3 AP items then defense). His insane damage in the videos was because his Q was overtuned, but it made him incredibly squishy (one video had him take two hits from a Fizz and it dropped him to about 30% health from full.

etc etc....

there true tanks and they still cause massive damage i didn't mention all but truth is that all of them do, which is just wrong. riot stated that tanks don't focus on damage dealing and yet these so claled ''true tanks'' focus on damage dealing -.-

Yeah, bullcrap. They focus on engaging (Vanguards) and disengaging/counter-engage (Wardens). What damage they are allowed is to make it so the enemy actually wants to focus them. If you are going to make claims about actual tanks dealing massive damage (outside Galio, we all saw hus FULL AP build), you’re gonna have to provide some Actual evidence instead of just claims like “I’ve instakilled on Malphite” or “Zac can still instakill”

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Not all tanks actually have sustain. Galio, Poppy, Ornn, Sion, etc do not have sustain or a level of it that allows them to tank minion waves without getting hurt (not to mention their other opponent).

galio gains extra shield so does ornn sion and poppy.... thats sustain for starters.

Tanking in PVP is not only about absorption, it’s about how to get people to hit you. If someone is hard to kill but isn’t actually a threat to you in lane, then you can eventually kill them or force them from even being able to farm outside of tower. You’d make tanks non interactive to play as.

tanks aren't supposed to be a threat 1vsX but use their cc and work together to be a massive threat 2-5vsX truth is tanks are doing too much damage, recently i saw tank gnar throw a rock causing about 300 damage and lux throwing her snare causing about 300 damage..... im just saying gnar can tank about three to four times more damage.... it just need toned down.

You’re correct that Leona has AoE, but it’s not good for farming. It’s more to help her lock down combo.

doesn't matter she can waveclear with it, when possible its simply possible.

Sunfire cape is meant to help with waveclear, and in the past it was an oppressive offensive item. It is a shadow of its former self.

because tanks are op no ?

Tanks do not start with visage nor do they always rush it.

i didn't say that, i said its a tank item.

You have true tanks in top and jungle. Please understand that this isn’t PVE ranking.

there are no true tanks anymore, just about any champion can tank nowadays.... heck even kogmaw is O.o

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Tanking in PVP is not only about absorption, it’s about how to get people to hit you. If someone is hard to kill but isn’t actually a threat to you in lane, then you can eventually kill them or force them from even being able to farm outside of tower. You’d make tanks non interactive to play as.

A good example of this was one of C9’s matches during the regular split (after the tank update) Trundle vs Maokai, and the Maokai, even with Bramble vest, could not stop the Trundle splitpushing. He just didn’t have the damage output to make Trundle fight him.

I don't think there's a solid expectation for itemization for ap bruisers. Like, Diana's the only actual ap fighter I can think of, yet she builds basically full glass.

There's really not enough "ap bruisers" for there to be a solid grasp of what one would build, and it shows in our itemization choices. (AD fighters have items that CLEARLY align with such a play style with AD + defenses on one item. Resistances on ap items are really just a means to properly balance burst mage itemization choices.)

We COULD say "ap bruiser" = battle mage, where you'd build things like Rylai's, Liandry's, and such, but champs that build those don't build one or two ap items into full tank. If anything, they build mostly ap and one or two tank items, which is the opposite relationship. Galio's intended itemization differs greatly from just about any ap champ in the game if I gotta put it squarely.