Am I the only one who thinks Cassiopeia rework wasnt a fail?

Poske·Oct 17, 2015·8 votes·888 views

"Cassiopeia used to be a poison mage and now her poison is pathetic"

Seriously WTF? Atleast 50% of cassiopeia dmg is in poison Her passive is poison related Her e amplifies poison dmg (How many of cassiopeia players know this I wonder?)

POISON MAGE.. Do you guys really think thats identity ? Well maybe thematicly wise yes ? But gameplay wise SHE WAS JUST AN ORDINARY MAGE .. nothing special

Nowdays She is a POISON mage with the ADC playstyle? Whats bad about that? Seriously I would never pick cassiopeia over syndra before since she was just straight out worse.** Cassiopeia used to be a champion who either outclassed or was outclassed ... ** She is 5% less poisonous and the trade of is an actual identity and not overlaping with other mages? So FUC-KING beat it

Now cassiopeia has identity actually Good sustained damage She is mage hypercarry (Thats rare ) She has good stun Eventhough she is lategame hypercarry she can be a bully in some matchups She has sustain (Thats rare for a mage it means she doesnt care about poke )

Seriously WHAT IS THE BIG FUSS ABOUT ?

stashu did great job

Bring down the downvotes and jump on the hate stashu bandwagon

Only sheeps cant comprehend why that was a good rework. Its the harsh truth

24 Comments

CindikleOct 17, 20157 votes

Good sustained damage

She always had this. Nothing changed.

She is mage hypercarry (Thats rare )

She already was. While she's a little bit more of one now. That's mainly due to Luden's. She actually has a HARDER time being a hyper carry now because of the passive change.

She has good stun

This didn't change either. Heck, this was honestly the ONLY thing people constantly complained about her. It's activation is slow and not reliable for an immobile mage.

Eventhough she is lategame hypercarry she can be a bully in some matchups

Again. Nothing here changed. Heck this was supposed to be one of the reasons they wanted to reworked her. They didn't like that she was a lane bully so they made her lane bully.

She has sustain (Thats rare for a mage atleast and it means she doesnt care about poke

Oh good. Gained one thing. Usually she bought WotA anyway for this.

Overall the rework did nothing but focus most of her damage on her E. Gave a lot of mechanics no one asked for.

No one asked for this rework. And it didn't even do anything but make her less of a poison focus mage. A reason a lot of people played her for.

The only success this rework manged to do was not end up a flop or broken.

PoskeOct 17, 20152 votes

{quoted}

She always had this. Nothing changed.

She already was. While she's a little bit more of one now. That's mainly due to Luden's. She actually has a HARDER time being a hyper carry now because of the passive change.

This didn't change either. Heck, this was honestly the ONLY thing people constantly complained about her. It's activation is slow and not reliable for an immobile mage.

Again. Nothing here changed. Heck this was supposed to be one of the reasons they wanted to reworked her. They didn't like that she was a lane bully so they made her lane bully.

Oh good. Gained one thing. Usually she bought WotA anyway for this.

Overall the rework did nothing but focus most of her damage on her E. Gave a lot of mechanics no one asked for.

No one asked for this rework. And it didn't even do anything but make her less of a poison focus mage. A reason a lot of people played her for.

The only success this rework manged to do was not end up a flop or broken.

She always had good sustained damage thats true but now its Like the ADC level sustained dmg

She was never a mage hypercarry mate.. you are just wrong here . She used to be a massive lanebully who got nerfed because it was degenerate (I dont think it was). Now her biggest spike is 500 poison stack / late game

You can always R > flash which is broken if you want faster R i would remove the R>flash then it would also remove counterplay and make none want to look at her..

Yes I listed her strenghts she always had a stun

I pick cassiopeia when my team needs dmg and when enemy team has some poke /medium enagea

Before she was just overlaping with everything

You actually played cass with wota? It was mediocore

DrNovaOct 17, 20152 votes

You are bad.

CindikleOct 18, 20151 votes

She always had good sustained damage thats true but now its Like the ADC level sustained dmg

That was partly because of Ludens. Her single target damage went up, but her AoE went down.

She was never a mage hypercarry mate.. you are just wrong here . She used to be a massive lanebully who got nerfed because it was degenerate (I dont think it was). Now her biggest spike is 500 poison stack / late game

In terms of mages, she was a hypercarry. She had strong reliable sustained damage. Now that she's like a long strong DoT till she runs oom.

You can always R > flash which is broken if you want faster R i would remove the R>flash then it would also remove counterplay and make none want to look at her..

Abilities shouldn't rely on breaking mechanics to work. It's why Riven is stupid. And why people dislike her.

Yes I listed her strenghts she always had a stun

But your post is about the improvements the rework gave her. Nothing changed here. It's like saying her W slows.

I pick cassiopeia when my team needs dmg and when enemy team has some poke /medium enagea

Nothing she does now changed how you picked her.

Before she was just overlaping with everything

Not sure I understand this. The mechanics of her kit didn't change. There's just a stacking passive in place of mana control and more E focused damage. But how you play her didn't change one bit.

You actually played cass with wota? It was mediocore

It was an option. If you really wanted that sustain, it was not a bad choice. But wasn't required. She was probably the most balanced spell vamp champion in the game. She could use it, but it didn't break her. Nor was it required.

PoskeOct 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

That was partly because of Ludens. Her single target damage went up, but her AoE went down.

In terms of mages, she was a hypercarry. She had strong reliable sustained damage. Now that she's like a long strong DoT till she runs oom.

Abilities shouldn't rely on breaking mechanics to work. It's why Riven is stupid. And why people dislike her.

But your post is about the improvements the rework gave her. Nothing changed here. It's like saying her W slows.

Nothing she does now changed how you picked her.

Not sure I understand this. The mechanics of her kit didn't change. There's just a stacking passive in place of mana control and more E focused damage. But how you play her didn't change one bit.

It was an option. If you really wanted that sustain, it was not a bad choice. But wasn't required. She was probably the most balanced spell vamp champion in the game. She could use it, but it didn't break her. Nor was it required.

You think ludens is the reason why cassiopeia does consistent damage What????? She has so many cores she can do the same without ludens

Cassiopeia was NEVER EVER A HYPERCARRY she was a lane bully. Where the fuck are you getting this info. I doubt any old cassiopeia main would say cassiopeia was lategame hypercarry because thats just ridicilus.

I like Riven because she is so mechanicly cool. I wish every champion had so much canceling. Riven is one of the most popular champiosn for a reason .. and no its not because she is strong (Honestly she is balanced) its because she is actually fun to play and fun to master

I would never remove R>flash from cass

I was just listing her identity above / what she offers as a champion. Yes she always had a stun, mini zone with w. The pluses from the rework are hypercarry sustained damage + sustain .. mana refound though that shouldnt count before she would just clear the wave easier

She is literaly like the only Real hypercarry mage in the game apart from maybe azir. Sustain makes her diffrent from azir though

Yeah Wota was always decent for her (Surprised I am not the only one who tryed it )

CindikleOct 18, 20151 votes

You think ludens is the reason why cassiopeia does consistent damage What????? She has so many cores she can do the same without ludens

No. It's the reason she feels so much stronger though. She's one of the few mages that actually gets a DPS boost from it over Deathcap. But it's still strong because it adds to burst, and most mages are not sustained damage. Overall you don't really pick one or the other though. Just stating how powerful of an item it is on her.

Her single target damage went up. AoE went down. And Ludens stacked on(somewhat helping the AoE).

Cassiopeia was NEVER EVER A HYPERCARRY she was a lane bully. Where the fuck are you getting this info. I doubt any old cassiopeia main would say cassiopeia was lategame hypercarry because thats just ridicilus.

In terms of mages she was. Most mages cannot hypercarry at all. If everyone is at max items, very few can say they define the teamfight through shear power. Cass could do this before as long as she got peeled. She just hits harder for single target now, but before she would last longer, mana wise. ADC's do this because of their high DPS. As long as they're constantly attacking they're destroying everything. Mages usually weave cooldowns and time abilities. Cass would put out high sustained damage(not DPS high, and she's in a bad spot if she misses an E reset).

I like Riven because she is so mechanicly cool. I wish every champion had so much canceling. Riven is one of the most popular champiosn for a reason .. and no its not because she is strong (Honestly she is balanced) its because she is actually fun to play and fun to master

Fun or not, it makes her one of the most frustrating champions to face. She breaks rules you shouldn't see. In ways almost all champions cannot do. And most that can have to do it with Flash. She does it in her base kit.

Right now she's where Lee Sin was when they actually tried to rework him. A big enough and dedicated enough fan base that if they changed this, they'd probably see a lot of hard backlash.

There was a change on the test server where her she automaticly AA'd after her Q. It was short lived and they said they didn't mean for it to go on there. It got a lot of hate though. But I think it's a perfect change.

Imagine if her Q did this. But set the AA damage. 60/70/80/90/100% of normal damage. This holds back on her ability to do this, but makes it not actually break her kit. This would be something like a .25s buff. So if you didn't want to use it, it would go away.

The rest of the canceling isn't as bad though. It mostly revolves around using abilities between their short cast times. This is a common thing to see in most champions with cast times. It does look a little weird on her since her animation move so differently for each ability.

Overall I'd like to see them make it part of her kit. Not just flat out remove it. If she has a fanbase for it, fine, work with it. But don't leave broken mechanics in the game.

I would never remove R>flash from cass

Not fully saying remove it. I don't dislike Flash animation canceling as much as I dislike when it's in a champions own kit. Using a 5 minute CD and a very important escape on an immobile mage should come with some power. Would rather see it be more reliable on it's own though. Or at least count as a poisoned enemy for her E. Not that it's hard to land a Q/W on a stunned target.

I was just listing her identity above / what she offers as a champion. Yes she always had a stun, mini zone with w. The pluses from the rework are hypercarry sustained damage + sustain .. mana refound though that shouldnt count before she would just clear the wave easier

She is literaly like the only Real hypercarry mage in the game apart from maybe azir. Sustain makes her diffrent from azir though

Ryze and Kayle are somewhat also one. Ryze is a shadow of his hypercarry days though. But he can be a powerhouse in a teamfight very easily. Just not as safely. Kayle after a few items puts out some insane AoE damage while having some self peel.

PoskeOct 18, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No. It's the reason she feels so much stronger though. She's one of the few mages that actually gets a DPS boost from it over Deathcap. But it's still strong because it adds to burst, and most mages are not sustained damage. Overall you don't really pick one or the other though. Just stating how powerful of an item it is on her.

Her single target damage went up. AoE went down. And Ludens stacked on(somewhat helping the AoE).

In terms of mages she was. Most mages cannot hypercarry at all. If everyone is at max items, very few can say they define the teamfight through shear power. Cass could do this before as long as she got peeled. She just hits harder for single target now, but before she would last longer, mana wise. ADC's do this because of their high DPS. As long as they're constantly attacking they're destroying everything. Mages usually weave cooldowns and time abilities. Cass would put out high sustained damage(not DPS high, and she's in a bad spot if she misses an E reset).

Fun or not, it makes her one of the most frustrating champions to face. She breaks rules you shouldn't see. In ways almost all champions cannot do. And most that can have to do it with Flash. She does it in her base kit.

Right now she's where Lee Sin was when they actually tried to rework him. A big enough and dedicated enough fan base that if they changed this, they'd probably see a lot of hard backlash.

There was a change on the test server where her she automaticly AA'd after her Q. It was short lived and they said they didn't mean for it to go on there. It got a lot of hate though. But I think it's a perfect change.

Imagine if her Q did this. But set the AA damage. 60/70/80/90/100% of normal damage. This holds back on her ability to do this, but makes it not actually break her kit. This would be something like a .25s buff. So if you didn't want to use it, it would go away.

The rest of the canceling isn't as bad though. It mostly revolves around using abilities between their short cast times. This is a common thing to see in most champions with cast times. It does look a little weird on her since her animation move so differently for each ability.

Overall I'd like to see them make it part of her kit. Not just flat out remove it. If she has a fanbase for it, fine, work with it. But don't leave broken mechanics in the game.

Not fully saying remove it. I don't dislike Flash animation canceling as much as I dislike when it's in a champions own kit. Using a 5 minute CD and a very important escape on an immobile mage should come with some power. Would rather see it be more reliable on it's own though. Or at least count as a poisoned enemy for her E. Not that it's hard to land a Q/W on a stunned target.

Ryze and Kayle are somewhat also one. Ryze is a shadow of his hypercarry days though. But he can be a powerhouse in a teamfight very easily. Just not as safely. Kayle after a few items puts out some insane AoE damage while having some self peel.

Well ludens is obviously great for her but I think she has more important cores

Rabadon works better with her passive compared to ludens.

It would require some next level math and logic to figure out the best build for her

Karthus is a lategame hypercarry for example. You could never compare cassiopeia damage output to a karthus who would halve entire team health with one r (45% to tanks)

Cassiopeia spiked a bit in early game but she was just average in all other stages.

Riven is fun to play. Lee sin is fun to play. Personally I like playing against them unless I have bad matchup against riven and she gets ahead

The playerbase which hates playing against Lee sin/riven/yasuo/vayne/fizz is the same sheep playerbase who hates teemo just because everyone does

Its more of a known thing nowdays . No one actually hates teemo its just the stupid meme for Wonna be cool people ...

**They should never absolutely never make canceling riven for easier or make any canceling changes ** As dedicated riven player Just no.. I saw the patch on pbe .. that would break her even if you halved her dmg..

Honestly if anything I wish there were more mechanical champions. You ll never see Amumu in top 5 plays who makes something impresive because he is so narrow

I am strongly against anything Simplistic. Animation canceling adds depth The fact that Riot kept garen a noobfriendly champion is sad since They already have huge established playerbase we dont need more new players.

Actually Ryze is insanely overpowerd atm. I am taliking about high elo since I have no experience with low elo ryze players. Honestly he just spams 20 abilties in 4 seconds. Main ryze players have insane winrate with him.. more then any main x champion

Ryze is example of good rework (;

IS ryze similar to cass? WELL ryze is anti mobility champion I think there are enough diffrences so they dont overlap nowdays

Kayle ll always be unique with her passive w and r.. and yes she is a hypercarry (Not a devourer hypercarry anymore but still a hypercarry)

The Queen ViperOct 17, 20154 votes

On a side note:

{quoted}

Oh good. Gained one thing. Usually she bought WotA anyway for this.

https://i.imgur.com/wqMWK7z.gif

No, you never build WotA on Cass. Not before the rework, and not after.

Not worth.

CindikleOct 18, 20151 votes

Not usually. But it was not a bad item on her if you wanted that sustain. If you're getting focused, but the enemy doesn't have the burst/CC to finish you off quickly it is a good buy. It's not common though.

Big LincolnOct 17, 20153 votes

i would not pick cass over an actual ADC

her sustained damage is wholly reliant on Q/W, meaning she can't switch targets immediately, meaning she's extra vulnerable to getting dove/burst if she was focusing someone else

her poison doesn't do shit other than set up her E, an ability that's both bland in theory and execution.

she didn't overlap with anyone. She was -the- first DoT mage. She wasn't stepping on anyone's turf when players wanted her poisoner aspect to be the highlight of her kit; they were on hers.

this rework blows, even when she was strong (overbuffed) she wasn't fun

PoskeOct 17, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VHPirWEB,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-10-17T17:50:55.791+0000)

i would not pick cass over an actual ADC

her sustained damage is wholly reliant on Q/W, meaning she can't switch targets immediately, meaning she's extra vulnerable to getting dove/burst if she was focusing someone else

her poison doesn't do shit other than set up her E, an ability that's both bland in theory and execution.

she didn't overlap with anyone. She was -the- first DoT mage. She wasn't stepping on anyone's turf when players wanted her poisoner aspect to be the highlight of her kit; they were on hers.

this rework blows, even when she was strong (overbuffed) she wasn't fun

She is Marksman hypercarry which does magic dmg That alone makes her pick worthy since you cant have full ad team. Yes She cant switch targets as good but Riot actually said to that response she has some other strenghts to compensate that like easy kiting aoe stun ultimate

You all keep acting like Dot / poison mage is something unique

No its just not .. she used to do what every other mage did

You are saying that she didnt overlap with everyone YET I had no reason to pick her before. Worst case scenario she was outclassing brand or getting outclassed by him .

Infact Brand shares old issues Cassiopeia had . Which is identity (Not thematic identity) nowdays I have no reason to pick brand over anything. Since there are way better mages similar to brand

Poison is still highlight of her kit. I already listed all the poison related stuff But I can agree that her poisons deal a bit less dmg

Big LincolnOct 17, 20151 votes

no there isn't anyone similar to brand. DoTs aren't burst; it's lingering damage. not to mention no mage can clean up a fight like Brand.

why would i pick her over Azir? Azir can switch targets, has much better disengage and arguably helps his team better. Cass does nothing until 35 minutes and then she'll still explode if she isn't peeled for/built around.

PoskeOct 17, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Solomon Money,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VHPirWEB,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2015-10-17T20:03:56.629+0000)

no there isn't anyone similar to brand. DoTs aren't burst; it's lingering damage. not to mention no mage can clean up a fight like Brand.

why would i pick her over Azir? Azir can switch targets, has much better disengage and arguably helps his team better. Cass does nothing until 35 minutes and then she'll still explode if she isn't peeled for/built around.

Cuz of sustain

I actually picked her few times over azir because enemy had poke and I didnt want to recall often

Mate the damage is damage lingering damage wont make you unique

Dont get me get started with brand

He is supposed to be Aoe combo mage With few viable/core combos and pathetic aoe on top of being stupidly item reliant (You need rylai/lyandri/rabadon/Ludens and obviously to abuse the If the target is ablaze stuff Cooldown .. and since he is a bit mana hungry he needs Morelonomicon)

There is a reason why none plays brand in high elo / Pro play

Big LincolnOct 17, 20151 votes

nobody plays brand because his ultimate tends to be unreliable.

"few viable combos and pathetic aoe"? what? Brand is ~~the~~ AoE mage; if his ult was actually reliable he'd be fucking godly. his items are perfectly fine; he doesn't even need anything outside of ryliandry's and a mana regen item to be wrecking shop. The fact that he performs so well without high gold income is why he works as a support, too.

Baseball3bOct 17, 20153 votes

So many logical fallacies it hurts just to think about it.

My main problem with the rework is that it turned Cass into a binary E spam machine whose 2 other non-ultimate abilities became useless on their own. Granted, she has always been very reliant on her E for damage, but she did it with two other useful abilities. Now, she has her spammable, targeted nuke of an E, front loaded with a mana refund, spell vamp, and a DoT amp, and two other abilities in which letting her spam her E is their only purpose. It's not fun to play as, or against.

The Queen ViperOct 17, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VHPirWEB,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-17T16:52:49.165+0000)

Am I the only one who thinks Cassiopeia rework wasnt a fail?

Weeeeeeeeeeell, it kinda was .... more or less. She lost one of her playstyles completely. Her early game is weaker, her poke and zoning is weaker and she's a bit more unreliable now due to the fact that she hits her powerspike later into the game, has all of her dmg loaded into the low-ranged E which also makes her more team reliant. Sure, her late game is stronger now but it's questionable/debatable if you ever get there, at least in yoloQ.

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VHPirWEB,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-17T16:52:49.165+0000)

Nowdays She is a POISON mage with the ADC playstyle? Whats bad about that?

The only bad thing is that nowadays she only has that one playstyle. It wasn't like that. She's not as flexible as she was before.

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VHPirWEB,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-17T16:52:49.165+0000)

Seriously I would never pick cassiopeia over syndra before since she was just straight out worse.** Cassiopeia used to be a champion who either outclassed or was outclassed ...

Actually it was easier to play against Syndra before, since you could stay clear and play the poke-game and max Q. You didn't need to be anywhere near her back then. Now, it's a bit more complicated than that...

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VHPirWEB,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-17T16:52:49.165+0000)

Seriously WHAT IS THE BIG FUSS ABOUT ?

The power-curve change and the playstyle change mostly.

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VHPirWEB,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-17T16:52:49.165+0000)

stashu did great job

Depends. He went full CertainlyT and ignored the community / initial feedback completely. Posted a thread about the upcoming changes to the general forums one day before the changed hit live and despite the thread having more than 100 pages, still kept ignoring the feedback. Only after major shit hit the fan when it came blatantly apparent that Cass was undertuned, Stashu started communicating a bit more. Now he's AWOL again.

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VHPirWEB,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-10-17T16:52:49.165+0000)

Only sheeps cant comprehend why that was a good rework. Its the harsh truth

Bitch please... do you even Cass bro? I doubt you do.

PoskeOct 17, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake on bush,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VHPirWEB,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-10-17T18:27:18.840+0000)

Weeeeeeeeeeell, it kinda was .... more or less. She lost one of her playstyles completely. Her early game is weaker, her poke and zoning is weaker and she's a bit more unreliable now due to the fact that she hits her powerspike later into the game, has all of her dmg loaded into the low-ranged E which also makes her more team reliant. Sure, her late game is stronger now but it's questionable/debatable if you ever get there, at least in yoloQ.

The only bad thing is that nowadays she only has that one playstyle. It wasn't like that. She's not as flexible as she was before.

Actually it was easier to play against Syndra before, since you could stay clear and play the poke-game and max Q. You didn't need to be anywhere near her back then. Now, it's a bit more complicated than that...

The power-curve change and the playstyle change mostly.

Depends. He went full CertainlyT and ignored the community / initial feedback completely. Posted a thread about the upcoming changes to the general forums one day before the changed hit live and despite the thread having more than 100 pages, still kept ignoring the feedback. Only after major shit hit the fan when it came blatantly apparent that Cass was undertuned, Stashu started communicating a bit more. Now he's AWOL again.

Bitch please... do you even Cass bro? I doubt you do.

Yes her zoning is a bit weaker since her w is a bit weaker buts zoning was never her thing / supposed to be her thing.

Yes her powerspikes are a bit awkard she has bad ratios yet ton of ap which is silly to an extent

In Order to be a Marksman mage she needed to be a bit more reliable so the damage shifts are understandable. Her e does amplify her poisons so I dont know if you count that as E dmg or poison dmg

She is good in certain teamcomps which is how every champion should be. She is bully to some champions while being lategame hypercarry what more can you ask for?

What do you mean she is not flexible? Seriously she has so much core items its ridicilus ? Gameplay wise? didnt she became a more viable toplaner then she was while still working in mid?

I said that syndra used to outclass cassiopeia because she was literaly better cassiopeia in terms of what they offer. If we are talking about matchup i ll strongly give edge to syndra

Whole point of a rework was to makes Cass more unique compared to other mages. He did do that yet you are all crying because she is a bit less poisonous

He actually listened community to an extent hence why her e amplifies poisons

I got over 100-200 games on cass

The Queen ViperOct 17, 20152 votes

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VHPirWEB,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-10-17T19:55:13.806+0000)

What do you mean she is not flexible?

In the terms of item builds and ability leveling paths.

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VHPirWEB,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-10-17T19:55:13.806+0000)

Seriously she has so much core items its ridicilus ?

Not anymore really. Now you have "must have" items such as Tear -> Seraph's or sometimes ROA ... and Deathcap due to the new passive, which also encourages you to stack raw AP as much as possible.

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VHPirWEB,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-10-17T19:55:13.806+0000)

Gameplay wise? didnt she became a more viable toplaner then she was while still working in mid?

No. She was waaay more viable top laner before the rework... however due to the rework, which made her early game weaker than the popular mages back then, she was forced to go top lane. Cass couldn't handle the mid lane before they buffed her.

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VHPirWEB,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-10-17T19:55:13.806+0000)

Whole point of a rework was to makes Cass more unique compared to other mages. He did do that yet you are all crying because she is a bit less poisonous_

I don't personally mind that, but I do dislike the fact that Cass is quite similar to Nasus now, in the terms of power-curve.

[{quoted}](name=Sub HeroCro,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VHPirWEB,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2015-10-17T19:55:13.806+0000)

I got over 100-200 games on cass

Not with that account ... unless you are talking about normal games.

(even though normals don't mean anything)

PoskeOct 17, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake on bush,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VHPirWEB,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2015-10-17T20:31:39.330+0000)

In the terms of item builds and ability leveling paths.

Not anymore really. Now you have "must have" items such as Tear -> Seraph's or sometimes ROA ... and Deathcap due to the new passive, which also encourages you to stack raw AP as much as possible.

No. She was waaay more viable top laner before the rework... however due to the rework, which made her early game weaker than the popular mages back then, she was forced to go top lane. Cass couldn't handle the mid lane before they buffed her.

I don't personally mind that, but I do dislike the fact that Cass is quite similar to Nasus now, in the terms of power-curve.

Not with that account ... unless you are talking about normal games.

(even though normals don't mean anything)

Back when Rabadon and her passive used to stack on wierd broken ways yeah getting 120 ap items was the best for her. But thats when she used to reach 1400 ap thats like few patches old

Rabadon > Core (Its core for every mage...) Seraph > Core Rod of ages > Core (best in farming matchups and at toplane) Rylai > AN absolute core lyandri > Well core (Its core for any dot mage.. maybe not for teemo because he values shrooming everything more) Voidstaff> Honestly a bit outclassed by lyandri for her but if you need voidstaff you need voidstaff Zhonya > I actually think that mages should have another armor item since zhonya is not fitting for a champion who doesnt stop casting but if you are up against Zed / talon you should probably get it Ludens > Core (She spams and kites fast... + dots ) Abysall > Well her range is just about the 20 mr reduction range obviously great if you need mr Red enchantment sorceres boots > core (Ultra kiting) Twin shadow > If you have this + ludens you dont need boots (Ussualy swap it at end)

I have had great success with all this items. I would mostlikely go for

Tear >Rod > Rylai >Seraph/ Rabadon > lyandri > Ludens > twin shadow

But you dont need both seraph and rod eventhough they have good synergy if you want your powerspike earlier

I accidently maxed q in few occasions (automaticly cuz of old cass) Then when I realised I Was maxing q I started to max e Now I max both equally (Priority to q eventhough priority to e might be better) and it works great for me

So Seriously item wise and ranking up wise she is one of the most flexible characters ... I mean there are only few champions in the game where you can max really diverse like orianna

I have rougly 60 ranked games with her and 110 normal games with her

I play her definetly at diamond level ..

MiraweaveOct 17, 20151 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snake on bush,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VHPirWEB,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2015-10-17T18:27:18.840+0000)

Weeeeeeeeeeell, it kinda was .... more or less. She lost one of her playstyles completely. Her early game is weaker, her poke and zoning is weaker and she's a bit more unreliable now due to the fact that she hits her powerspike later into the game, has all of her dmg loaded into the low-ranged E which also makes her more team reliant. Sure, her late game is stronger now but it's questionable/debatable if you ever get there, at least in yoloQ.

You realize that was the intent of the rework, right? A champion with such a strong lategame shouldn't be able to be a colossal lane bully. It wasn't balanced.

The Queen ViperOct 17, 20152 votes

Maybe, maybe not.

However the rework didn't fix nor address her already existing problems at all ... like immobility. In fact, it only made things worse for her.

CanastusOct 17, 20151 votes

This rework turned her playstyle into a binary mess of E-spam and nothing else, prior to that she had her other abilities to deal damage with at least. Since the rework was inherently unplayable, they had to slap huge numbers on it to make it even work. Once they realized she actually did what she was supposed to do, they decided to gut her back into unviability.

Six months after the nerfs and we're still stuck with a horrendous champion with lackluster sustain, massive mana issues, inherent squishyness and unreliable mobility. Even her supposedly "amazing" lategame is simply disappointing judging by the low winrate.

http://imgur.com/l1LBqhh

What point is there in playing a champion who's useless for the majority of the game just to blow up instantly once your reach lategame? This champion is a huge disappointment and in dire need of another rework. Literally no one wants to play her anymore. Her popularity has reached a whole new low, you could call her the Urgot of midlane.

StoningtonOct 17, 20151 votes

Yeah, it was a really good rework.

MiraweaveOct 17, 20151 votes

The people who whine about her "poison mage" playstyle are people who want to be able to max Q, bully anyone out of lane, and still hyperscale.

Her old playstyle was exactly the same as her new one. Her E is the same ability it was before. She was always the AP DPS hypercarry, she's just actually balanced now.