the main issue for old Sejuani was her first clear...

agbudar·May 3, 2017·1 votes·894 views

Now there is definitely improvements.... but lets face it its all cuz we have a super overloaded passive resistance steroid that i feel is bound to get nerfed.

can we mitigate some of that resistance power and up her base damage on W for clears? or give her higher damage against monsters with W? or apply frost stacks to all enemies? something so that clears are no longer the issue for Sejuani.

clears are top priority in this jungle season and if a tank lags behind too much its basically crippling your team.

18 Comments

LostFr0stMay 3, 20172 votes

Her clear is monstrous. Go in practice tool and experiment with leveling/starting orders. Should be able to do leashless Red to raptors to wolves to blue to gromp to scuttle and then still be on more than 1/2 health and mana.

LankPantsMay 3, 20172 votes

After taking 12 and a half years. There's more to clearing than HP, clear speed is important and it takes Sej about 4:20 to clear the jungle, which is Nautilus tier clear speed. For reference here every meta jungler can full clear in under 4 minutes.

LostFr0stMay 3, 20171 votes

I'll time it tonight. It was most definitely not slow though. I started E on Red leashless then took Q at 2 and cleared Raptors, then W and did wolves--->Blue-->Gromp then scuttle. Scuttle dies instantly, which I can't say the same for most junglers.

LankPantsMay 3, 20172 votes

That's the time for a full clear, I have timed it. Old Sej did it in 3:55. She's one of the slowest "junglers" in the game.

LostFr0stMay 4, 20171 votes

I finished Red-->Raptors-->wolves-->Blue-->Gromp-->Scuttle at 3:58. Jungle spawns at 1:38/1:39 so 2 minutes 20 some seconds to clear. 6-6-18 masteries and 4.3 Armor/24.3 att spd/14.6 scaling sdr/206 health at 18 runes. <--Skarner setup. E lvl1 -->Q lvl2 -->W lvl3.

Edit: started at red without a leash, it's likely faster with one (obviously).

LankPantsMay 4, 20171 votes

I finished Red-->Raptors-->wolves-->Blue-->Gromp-->Scuttle at 3:58.

That's not a full clear, a full clear would include Krugs before Raptors.

3:58 is painfully slow for that clear anyway, I just loaded up a custom as Elise, a moderate clearspeed jungler and did that path sans scuttle in 3:24. I also tried Shyvana, a quick jungler and she finished the clear in 3:18. Then I did Sej, it took 3:35. That's really bad if you hadn't guessed. 11 seconds slower than Elise and 17 slower than Shyvana. To put this in context Nautilus, a jungler renowned for being fucking molasses did the reverse path (Blue>Gromp ect, he has mana issues) in 3:37, a negligible difference from Sej's clear.

I stand by what I said, Sejuani's clears are laughably slow right now, easily amongst the worst in the game and considerably slower than pre rework. Naut tier clearspeeds was the fairest thing I could say about this TBH, she's within 2 seconds of him.

LostFr0stMay 4, 20171 votes

Literally the time difference between Elise/Shyv and Sejuani is their base movement speed. Her clear isn't molasses paced as the above claims it to be. It's her walking between camps that makes it "slow." The clear itself is not. I find it mildly funny that scuttle was excluded though, one of the camps Elise/Shyv take 15+seconds to clear and Sej does instantly.

p.s. If you want to see something amusing, try clearing with Zac now if you want to see a slug. That's a struggle.

LankPantsMay 4, 20171 votes

No, it's not. The difference between 340 MS and 350 MS is honestly pretty negligible. In fact by the logic of your argument Naut has the quickest clears of all of them since he's at -15 from Sejuani, 325 MS is pathetic after all, he must be lighting quick in terms of clear to make up for that and clear at the same speed as Sej right? Your argument falls apart under basic scrutiny.

I find it mildly funny that scuttle was excluded though, one of the camps Elise/Shyv take 15+seconds to clear and Sej does instantly.

Elise kills scuttle quicker than Sej, Cocoon is a thing. I excluded it because it's situational, you can't reliably incorporate scuttle into a route since if you could the enemy could do the same thing and then you could run into each other making it unreliable again. Also you're slower than most junglers so they'd have an advantage if they wanted it anyway.

p.s. If you want to see something amusing, try clearing with Zac now if you want to see a slug. That's a struggle.

I am aware that Zac's clear is literal garbage, that doesn't make Sejuani's good.

LostFr0stMay 4, 20171 votes

? Shyvana has more than 350 MS, due to her W, and Elise can start the camp before even getting there with her Humanoid W. The time interacting with the camps are similar.

LankPantsMay 4, 20171 votes

Shyvana's W has a 12 second cooldown, she can't use it to run between camps. If she does that she doesn't have her main damage spell to clear the camp.

Elise pulling a camp in human form doesn't make a difference to clearspeeds past maybe 1 second. It's not making up an 11 second difference, let's put it that way.

LostFr0stMay 4, 20171 votes

The W movespeed makes it so that while kiting effectively she always ends up closest to the next camp. For Elise it would be 0.75-1 sec per camp, plus whatever time she gains from the distance finishing it with a ranged auto before going to the next one.

LankPantsMay 4, 20171 votes

Do you even think about what you say? Sejuani can pull the camp to the exact same distance as Shyvana, and neither of them really do anyway, if you try to pull a camp you almost always lose AOE damage which is far more substantial than the gain in time from distance.

I've also never seen anyone purposefully optimise an Elise clear to the point where they finish it with a ranged AA either. You'd need to know exactly how much damage the camp was taking at all points so you could ensure the attack exactly killed the camp. There's too many variables to control for this to be reliable.

If you want prove me wrong. Go time yourself killing camps as all of them, grab a stopwatch or app and time the actual kill time. Sej takes far longer since so much of her time is spent futilely swinging her flail for near 0 damage while waiting for E.

Ultimately none of this matters anyway, the Lee Sin invading you gives 0 fucks about if you spent extra time clearing or pathing, he's still going to kill you for being 11 seconds slow.

LostFr0stMay 4, 20171 votes

I'd like to see Lee invade Sej now with her new kit. Good luck with that. She's not on 2-3 bars all the time like she used to be. She's at least able to fight back now, which is what matters.

Lee is also part of the reason people don't do "full clears"; no one does Krugs unless they start topside and are powerfarming/don't plan on ganking. We both know that.

LankPantsMay 3, 20172 votes

I actually disagree. Sej's clears took a huge hit with the rework. They went from fairly fast but lacking sustain to slow as hell but well sustained. I think out of the two options the faster clear is actually better.

MuzétMay 3, 20171 votes

or apply frost stacks to all enemies?

That's already the case ?

agbudarMay 3, 20171 votes

not for minions and small monsters

MuzétMay 3, 20171 votes

oh that's what you mean pretty much not okay with that. Even if they tone down a bit her passive it will still be strong enough to clear without any issues.

MyrkrvaldyrMay 3, 20171 votes

Her passive makes her monstrously tanky, you can hit about 900 armor and 700 MR going full tank with your passive up, granted it's only for one hit but she's ridiculously tanky now. I despise her new ult, it's shit, but her jungle clear is fine. We have to see if her passive needs a nerf or not, give her a couple of weeks.