Is tower hugging supposed to be so rewarding?

Ed2Cute·Aug 15, 2014·1 votes·993 views

It's the easiest thing. Your tower gets additional stats early, it practically hands you the last hits, the damage is fairly high after just two shots. It's a safe haven for when you're getting your ass kicked in and you want to wait for your team to come win the lane for you.

Should bitch play be rewarded so highly? I mean... they're not really even playing the game. I could afk under tower and pretty much be fine and that's not okay. There has to be a risk. Idk, like reduced champion/turret armor or +%15 damage to minions to make the last hits harder.

The way it is now lanes are boring. There's just nothing fun to do once the enemy learns you can win a fight.

25 Comments

Hoi Im TemmoAug 15, 20143 votes

So, when losing lane, how should you catch up? or should the first kill just assure a lost cause?

Ed2CuteAug 15, 20142 votes

You shouldn't. Why should you be rewarded for losing lane? Make up for it by building appropriately and being useful in team fights via utility/meat shield. There's no reason why the guy who won his lane should have his efforts dismissed.

Hoi Im TemmoAug 15, 20141 votes

Having to play defensively and strategically is how you are rewarded - not just because you lost :/ someone lost cause they didn't leverage their early advantage well, didn't they?

Ed2CuteAug 15, 20141 votes

I can see how being defensive is a strategy in some cases... but this is a battle arena game. Not a, "I'm gonna try to suck myself off under turret" game. It's about skill (or should be, it's a bit about how bad Riot is at balancing) and decision making.

Hoi Im TemmoAug 16, 20142 votes

You are REALLY pissed off about this - its hard to have a real discussion when all you do is QQ.

The truth is, it is NOT beneficial to under tower. Like it or not, that is a fact. If you have trouble every time an opponent goes under tower, perhaps you are just bad at sieging? I don't know, you seem reluctant to give details on what the hell you are talking about.

The game is a STRATEGY game. Its about SKILL and DECISION MAKING.

So, since you neglect to give an example, I will create a theoretical one.

You are fighting me. I am mundo, you are Trynd. (I don't know, you just act like a trynd/yi player) - you just beat the crap out of me and killed me, so I tele back to keep you off my turret.

Now I have some options (some DECISIONS you might say) - A) Walk out and fight out again, despite being no better equipped to do so B) Try to use the minions as a cover and CS to the best of my ability, pushing away from my tower so you can then fight and kill me again C) Play safe, and try to stall and get help from jungler.

A SKILLED player, would pick C as the most advantageous choice in a bad situation.

Now YOU have a choice:

A) Push like an newb, and fight me anyway, cause lol is now street fighter the 3d map expansion. B) Ignore me, cause if you dont hit me, you dont damage me, so no turret aggro - but that means tons of free damage while you cs/hit my turret under my tower C) Freeze the lane via good last hitting and assist your team in some way while I try to farm with out leaving hte safety of my tower (and if I do, you come fight and kill me again)

Seeing as we are even having this discussion, I'm gonna guess you picked A, though maybe I underestimate you, and you chose B instead.

Ed2CuteAug 16, 20141 votes

I didn't give an example because I felt that it would hurt my argument. If I give an example someone would come out and just say, "Well why don't you do this?" and that's not the point I am trying to make.

For C on both ends (which I would choose C), yes, if you're under turret the wave naturally pushes back. However, the whole point of this is post is to point out that nothing happens if you pick C or hardly even B. It's a boring game. It's safe and it prevents the winner from continuing to win.

Which, with me phrasing it the way I did, made me realize that this is to anti-snowball the game. But then the problem isn't really tower-hugging. It's more about how strong a champion can get and how quickly. You have shit like Tryndamere (which I pick just to do stupid stuff in games, I hardly play him) who gets like two items and hits 6 and there goes all your hard work shutting him down. And forget about team fights. If the fight takes more than 3 seconds, you just lot a tower/inhib. GG EZ split Windamere.

Hoi Im TemmoAug 16, 20141 votes

So - your complaint is that when someone gets ahead, they dont get to have free kills and a fun time lording it over the opponent for the next 15 minutes, or longer if they drag the game out for even more kills.

Yeah, that sounds fun, lets ask riot to get right on that.

Ed2CuteAug 16, 20141 votes

I mean... in a way. What I want is towers to be less safe and champions to not snowball so hard. I mean, melee adcs get one item and then shit on everything. That's no fun for anyone.

Hoi Im TemmoAug 16, 20141 votes

Well, basically all fighters double as assassins, because otherwise they could never beat ranged champs.

Ed2CuteAug 16, 20141 votes

Yeah, but then there's the other side of that coin. Ranged champs almost never beat melee champs.

ShrikesnestAug 15, 20141 votes

So using stationary strategic objectives to your advantage is "bitch" play now. Let me guess, fella, stuck in ELO hell?

Ed2CuteAug 15, 20141 votes

No. I just don't like bitch play. I mean, if they could reach, champions would just sit on fountain and regen all day and attack you to keep you off. That sound like fun? No. And the person sitting under turret shouldn't be rewarded for being bullied.

XxXDarkSideXxXAug 15, 20141 votes

Turret Farming Is A Anti-Snowball Strategy. So Yes Its Approved.

Ed2CuteAug 15, 20141 votes

Sitting under turret is an anti-snowballing strategy? Or it is anti-snowballing to force them under turret?

I don't much agree since, if you have them under turret, you're highly susceptible to ganks, thus snowballing two champions. If you fall back, you lose out on more than your opponent. If you go elsewhere, you put your turret at risk AND, unless the roam is successful, you still lost more than your opponent.

ElemonAug 15, 20141 votes

...It's much more difficult to last-hit under turret. The turret steals most of the CS (it's often not even POSSIBLE to get perfect CS under turret), so you get significantly less money than your enemy. Therefore, your enemy will have more items and be more powerful than you. All you get is experience and a bit of CS.

Ed2CuteAug 15, 20141 votes

What? Last hitting under turret is way easier than in the middle of the lane. The turret sets it up for you. Wait two shots for melee minions. Or auto-turret-auto for caster minions. GG EZ CS, M8.

And many times I could be 10-20 CS up and bullying my enemy laner and he comes out like a level or two higher than me. How does that work? I look at LoLNexus and I don't see experience runes or masteries.

ElemonAug 16, 20142 votes

No because often, minions have low enough health that either you wait 2 shots and they're dead or you have to whittle them down with some of your own attacks while the turret is killing off other minions. Additionally, the turret gets more powerful as it shoots the minions and you often have a minion wave of your own coming in, so there's no set amount of shots you need the turrets to take before you can kill the minion off.

As for the experience, I can't think of any reason other than ganks, them taking jungle monsters, or them simply staying in lane near minions longer...

Ed2CuteAug 16, 20141 votes

If the minions are pushed on your tower, then you don't have minions there to attack/aggro them. Usually they're there with long enough to get most of the wave.

ElemonAug 16, 20141 votes

Even without allied minions, the turret is still destroying everything nearby... There's no consistent way to CS under turret. That's half the point of pushing the wave...

Ed2CuteAug 16, 20141 votes

tower damage doesn't vary. it has two stages: first hit and every other hit after that (with the recent changes to towers).

ElemonAug 16, 20141 votes

I went on the wiki, and apparently, turrets work slightly differently that I'd remembered... They only warm up when attacking champions. The damage to minions is constant. But even then, I usually find myself unable to perfectly CS under turret for a few reasons... Primarily, turrets and my autoattack damage don't really work together very well. A turret will deal, for example, slightly over a third of a minions health per shot, but I find myself unable to take out the remaining third in time, so the turret just destroys it in 3 shots. The obvious solution is to focus a minion and get it to a good amount of health while the turret is distracted with another minion, but that still loses you half of the CS...

Ed2CuteAug 16, 20141 votes

It sounds like you do AP mids. Am I right? I agree those are kind of hard to last hit with, with autos. Try just auto'ing each minion once. Alternating between melee and caster before the turret hits them enough to kill them. Often the minion is left with like 7 health. And turrets always aggro cannon>melee>caster.

ElemonAug 16, 20141 votes

I usually mid (or support), but definitely not always. That never works for me... Also, whenever I ADC, for example, I often crit and the double damage causes the turret to get the kill (instead of leaving it with enough life for me to one-shot it)...

Ed2CuteAug 16, 20141 votes

Now THAT is annoying and a feeling I know all too well. Lmao. Either use your abilities or have our support to auto it once or twice to weaken it. No chance of crit there.

ElemonAug 16, 20141 votes

Lol yeah... I must admit, I never really thought of that before... I'll have to remember that.