I honestly miss Faker

Elohaven··73 votes·20,708 views

He's always good but you simply don't see the old Faker because gold income is so teamspread and not focused on solo-laners that Faker keeps becoming less of a "playmaker" and more of a support player in fights now. You don't see the LeBlanc/Cass cheeses anymore, the Orianna escapes, the 2v4 outplays.

Why?

This is because his champions are gutted or simply don't have an impact since tanks/bruisers offer so much more Galio that there's no point in individual skill expression and one mistake can cost his team the game since passive gold gain and a kill makes a lane impossible to win.

75 Comments

Dasdi9648 votes

Yeah, that's what happens when riot makes the game so adc oriented because they think it is "teamwork" for 4 people to suck their adc's dick all game.

kargish28 votes

{quoted}

Yeah, that's what happens when riot makes the game so adc oriented because they think it is "teamwork" for 4 people to suck their adc's dick all game.

Technically to suck a dick 4 people at a time would require some major teamwork

Reaper Claws3 votes

I just choked on something while reading this :^).

Faustavian4 votes

And when you have another person to take your place when that happens, is truly beautiful teamwork.

Slythion47 votes

Mid lane has almost no interactivity anymore too. There's no laner to outplay, just a wave to shove and a bot lane to roam to

Aerial Queen Liz16 votes

AurelionSol Taliyah Talon TwistedFate

Ahristocats16 votes

Galio

Slythion6 votes

...no idea why you're downvoted unless people know literally nothing of the competitive meta lol

Ahristocats7 votes

they don't just read op to know that

PhantomGG31 votes

I miss mid laners period.

Remember bergsen solo killing every mid laner in the game during season 3 and 4? Remember Xpeke out playing fuck out of samsung blue at worlds? During season 4? Remember Faker showing all these stars no matter how good they are, they will always be his bitch. seasons 3-5 Remember Febivan shocking the world by repetively solo killing faker at MSI with zed vs azir?

Yeah those days are gone. At the very start of season 6 it was made very clear that mid laners were going to receive nothing but nerfs literally every patch to the point it evolved into the afk farm role that it is today.

RainXBlade21 votes

Riot is trying to push the game from a solo-carry game into a more team/bot-lane based game.

My point in what I said above is that this in itself is unhealthy for the game, both right from the start and in the long run.

PhantomGG1 votes

{quoted}

Riot is trying to push the game from a solo-carry game into a more team/bot-lane based game.

My point in what I said above is that this in itself is unhealthy for the game, both right from the start and in the long run.

I know, i even said to my friends as we like to talk about league theory.

"League is so heavily bot lane focused that I don't even know what the answer is to fix it anymore, besides start a whole new game"

RainXBlade3 votes

I mean, one of the possible ways is to just revamp or nerf bot lane as a whole and distribute agency over the game back to everyone equally. An 0-10 bot lane shouldn't heavily burden the losing team.

If things like a team having their top and mid winning but bot lane losing meant that the team with the losing bot lane would have a higher chance of losing no doubt, then I may as well play a fighting game if I wanted to carry myself to victory.

saltran4 votes

The team that won botlane has 2 members feed, the one that won toplane has 1 plyer feed.

9VMS Bush I Do2 votes

bot lane should count as 1.5 lane as it used to. now with supports having the same amount of items(cheaper builds+tons of gold without cs) the adc has double the impact any solo laner is having, which is clearly unhealthy. Add shoving only midlaners, highly sustainable toplaners and junglers who gank all the time without having anything to clear in the jungle and voila your crap game is ready to be served with some catch up xp on top of it just to make sure that the game stays in the same shit condition forever!

Raveolution2 votes

Won't have to worry about it pretty soon, every champion released or reworked these days has such an overloaded kit that soon the game will be unplayable for older champs so it won't matter. Zoe, Swain, then Kai'sa, then Irelia, all insanely and unnecessarily overloaded. Why does every new champion now need at least 6-9 abilities with built in steroids, cc, gap-closers, low mana costs or no mana costs, low cool downs, shields, escapes, more cc, sometimes even a stealth, and then ridiculous scaling on top of it.. Kai'sa obviously being the most notable of late as she has everything a champion could ever need built into her kit. Put her agains't a champion like Ashe who is what an ADC should be (no RNG crits, can't jump all over the map while dealing insane damage, has to actually build up to her steroid..) and the Ashe doesn't stand a chance unless the Kai'sa player is terrible.

They may as well revert league back to any season between 1-6 and then create a new game called "League of Garbage" and then have just their newer champions in it, since pretty soon the champions will be so ridiculous, and so convoluted that you won't even be able to play because of how stupid the kits are.

I'm just waiting for the next release, to prove my point even further.

Bard Rock1 votes

I am not going to comment on whether Zoe, Kai’sa, or Irelia are overloaded. But the reworked Swain seems rather tame. None of his abilities are super complex. Just because his kit isn’t dirt simple does not mean he is overloaded.

Raveolution1 votes

In Swain's case, it is mostly just that he was and continues to be overturned and thus is pick or ban in all LCS games in almost all regions and is very strong in general still.

Bard Rock1 votes

While that is a fair point, it has more to do with balance than design. A champion can be very well balanced while still being horrendously overloaded. Similarly a well designed champion can still be far too under or overpowered. I think Swain falls into the latter category unlike the other champions you listed.

Tomoe Gozen1 votes

{quoted}

Riot is trying to push the game from a solo-carry game into a more team/bot-lane based game.

My point in what I said above is that this in itself is unhealthy for the game, both right from the start and in the long run.

League was always a team game. That aspect is never going to change. You're not playing a 1v1 game like Heartstone, you're playing a game where you get matched with 4 other people against 5 opponents.

Riot's also testing kill gold changes to give more gold to the killer and less to the team (spread among the assists). That should address that "big" issue with one person managing to lose you the game because he's the money bag for the entire enemy team until he runs dry.

Khâmul2 votes

Remember when he said he wanted to finish the final in 3 games so he could eat sooner?what a god

saltran2 votes

I mean, he ended the final in 3 games LUL.

Khâmul3 votes

i'm glad he could eat . he even got an extra salt with his tears..what a lucky boii

Rins Thigh Socks14 votes

{quoted}

This is because his champions are gutted or simply don't have an impact since AD assassins/champions just are much more viable Zed

If that were true he'd be playing Zed and making plays.

Ahristocats7 votes

they forgot that Faker is zed himself and that when faker plays zed his ban rate in korea reaches 70%

but let the QQ spreads and sheeps upvoting terrible posts zed is completly garbage in competitive and faker can't play him no one can play him

Handin Out Naps12 votes

Wait what are you saying ad assassins are more viable? Are we looking at the same pro games? And how do you say less of a playmaker and put Zed as a problem. Skt t1 Zed and championship Zed are both here only because of Faker. Faker's Zed is the original playmaker.

Snowman Arc10 votes

No. it's not that. Faker is just way too overrated. He's good. He was the best at some point, but those days are long gone. You need to understand how the game changes and the people have access to so much information about how the game can be played. There are so many little tricks that were not known back in the day. Optimal jungle routes, best back timings, wave manipulation etc are all things that were not done back in the day to the extent we see today. The few people who were doing those actually became the best, to which point Faker became the best at some point, because he understood the game.

Over the next years though, more analysts came in and so much more knowledge and strategy and mechanics came to be known, even to the casual player. But those challenger players who were already good at the game now got even more knowledge and eventually were able to surpass Faker. Look at the best mid laners right now; BDD is insane. Positioning, going in and out of the fight, CSing, laning pressure, roaming, teamfighting. The guy does so many things so well. Nobody can prove to me that Faker is better than BDD in 2018. There are also other western mid laners, like Febiven, who are also extremely skilled and could be believed to be the best. And let's not mention how many better players exist in other lanes. Khan is insane, Pray is insane, Peanut, Kiin, Smeb etc. All these players are strong and probably better than Faker.

So, what changed? Faker got to the top by abusing assassins. Want to make a name for yourself? Play something that has the ability to outplay. Yasuo, Zed, Riven, play those and everyone will call you a god. Faker did, during a time where people still didn't know how to play against those champions. Back when mid lane solo kills were a thing, back when assassins were meta. Faker abused his mid-lane class advantage of picking assassins to make flashy plays and stomp against ADCs for example.

But look at how the tables have turned now. Assassins are not as viable anymore because, people will say, supports are OP. But the real reason is that people learned how to play against them. They learned how to poke them before they get strong so that their all-in won't be as easy, they learned how to freeze waves, zone out of xp range etc. And on the back of that, ADCs now have emerged to the top. Junglers have emerged to the top, as they control the map. Those are the impactful roles now, leaving mid laners feel less important in the grand scheme of things. Therefore, no more assassins, no more highlights, no more Faker being the best in the world.

If assassins came back, would Faker be the best once again? I don't know. Literally, at this point, I think he isn't as good as he was back then. You can see that he doesn't have the same hunger as he did 3 years ago. And why would he? He beat everyone, he conquered everything. And it shows. It shows when other non-accomplished players are so much more hungry than him to succeed and show it on the rift.

Faker's days are gone. He is a welcome sight to see, but there are better players out there.

As for the assassin meta, if it ever comes back, it will come with A LOT of problems. It will have to overcome the utility that mages / Galio offer (roaming, safe waveclear, magic damage, scaling), and the way for that to happen will probably be to overtune assassins so much, that they become toxic. Look at Zed now. In soloQ, where people still play stupidly vs him in lower elo, he stomps. He gets a random kill at level 6, then he roams and every time his ulti is up, it's a guarantee kill. And that's now (I believe that Zed is OP right now is soloQ). Imagine what happens if somehow they buff his waveclear, or his cooldowns, in order to make him viable in pro play. That would break him beyond belief, because if they don't buff him that much, then there won't be a purpose for Zed to be picked over Taliyah, Galio, Azir etc. In a controlled environment, Zed won't do much. The mid laner will hold him in place, and the correct vision control will deny any roams that will happen. But in the chaos of soloQ, it will break the game.

Risen2910 votes

If faker got to where he is only by playing assassins then half his highlight reels wouldnt have him playing as mages or fighters like riven.

tea tìme1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Snowman Arc,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VEytafNJ,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-04-15T07:21:02.301+0000)

No. it's not that. Faker is just way too overrated. He's good. He was the best at some point, but those days are long gone. You need to understand how the game changes and the people have access to so much information about how the game can be played. There are so many little tricks that were not known back in the day. Optimal jungle routes, best back timings, wave manipulation etc are all things that were not done back in the day to the extent we see today. The few people who were doing those actually became the best, to which point Faker became the best at some point, because he understood the game.

Over the next years though, more analysts came in and so much more knowledge and strategy and mechanics came to be known, even to the casual player. But those challenger players who were already good at the game now got even more knowledge and eventually were able to surpass Faker. Look at the best mid laners right now; BDD is insane. Positioning, going in and out of the fight, CSing, laning pressure, roaming, teamfighting. The guy does so many things so well. Nobody can prove to me that Faker is better than BDD in 2018. There are also other western mid laners, like Febiven, who are also extremely skilled and could be believed to be the best. And let's not mention how many better players exist in other lanes. Khan is insane, Pray is insane, Peanut, Kiin, Smeb etc. All these players are strong and probably better than Faker.

So, what changed? Faker got to the top by abusing assassins. Want to make a name for yourself? Play something that has the ability to outplay. Yasuo, Zed, Riven, play those and everyone will call you a god. Faker did, during a time where people still didn't know how to play against those champions. Back when mid lane solo kills were a thing, back when assassins were meta. Faker abused his mid-lane class advantage of picking assassins to make flashy plays and stomp against ADCs for example.

But look at how the tables have turned now. Assassins are not as viable anymore because, people will say, supports are OP. But the real reason is that people learned how to play against them. They learned how to poke them before they get strong so that their all-in won't be as easy, they learned how to freeze waves, zone out of xp range etc. And on the back of that, ADCs now have emerged to the top. Junglers have emerged to the top, as they control the map. Those are the impactful roles now, leaving mid laners feel less important in the grand scheme of things. Therefore, no more assassins, no more highlights, no more Faker being the best in the world.

If assassins came back, would Faker be the best once again? I don't know. Literally, at this point, I think he isn't as good as he was back then. You can see that he doesn't have the same hunger as he did 3 years ago. And why would he? He beat everyone, he conquered everything. And it shows. It shows when other non-accomplished players are so much more hungry than him to succeed and show it on the rift.

Faker's days are gone. He is a welcome sight to see, but there are better players out there.

As for the assassin meta, if it ever comes back, it will come with A LOT of problems. It will have to overcome the utility that mages / Galio offer (roaming, safe waveclear, magic damage, scaling), and the way for that to happen will probably be to overtune assassins so much, that they become toxic. Look at Zed now. In soloQ, where people still play stupidly vs him in lower elo, he stomps. He gets a random kill at level 6, then he roams and every time his ulti is up, it's a guarantee kill. And that's now (I believe that Zed is OP right now is soloQ). Imagine what happens if somehow they buff his waveclear, or his cooldowns, in order to make him viable in pro play. That would break him beyond belief, because if they don't buff him that much, then there won't be a purpose for Zed to be picked over Taliyah, Galio, Azir etc. In a controlled environment, Zed won't do much. The mid laner will hold him in place, and the correct vision control will deny any roams that will happen. But in the chaos of soloQ, it will break the game.

TL;DR: I don't like Faker, so my big essay is a testament to that

Snowman Arc1 votes

I never said I didn't like Faker. He, along with Rekkles and Bjergsen, are the only channels I actually follow on Twitch. I like Faker, but I can't accept that right now he is the best when I have watched every LCK game this split.

Foxynth1 votes

I personally love faker. The guy is fantastic; your essay would have some merit to it except.... NA and most Western teams almost NEVER make a significant impact at Worlds. So unfortunately... I've gotta pass on even reading into this one.

Snowman Arc1 votes

I'm not even comparing Faker to western players. Most Korean players are head and shoulders above any other player in the world. I compare Faker to other Korean mids.

Also, I don't understand what NA and EU failing at Worlds has to do with my opinion, or your disregard towards it.

Foxynth1 votes

You mention Febiven, and you mention Western players, "Who could be believed to be the best." That's a comparison if I've ever seen one.

Also I bring up NA and EU at worlds because that's a significant indicator and point of comparison between many players, and it's a very easy comparison too. My personal opinion is that as a player who has in many cases been the solo carry for his team, or at the very least their star player, in a meta where 1v1 midlaners have no agency anymore and the very clear press toward team snowballs as opposed to solo snowballs makes it difficult for Faker to have a lot of impact on games like he used to.

Let's be frank. Can Faker play a huge array of champions at a professional level? Very likely, yes. Are those champions snowball oriented and tend to be fighters and assassins? Yes. Riven, Zed, Originally LeBanc, Ahri, and even some good control mages like Ryze and the like. But right now midlane Assassins could not be farther from the meta, simply because botlane has so much more self-sufficiency than it has had almost ever, and to put the icing on the cake, solo snowball is virtually nonexistent now with the changes to gold distribution. As soon as he made the transition from assassins to control mages and map pressure champions, he relinquished his status as "carry" for his team, and it can very clearly be seen how much of his impact had been removed from the game. It became all about botlane at that point.

LemurKick10 votes

AD Assassins besides Kha'zix are non-existent in pro play, what are you even talking about? They practically exclusively play mages mid. Is this just another mage qq post in disguise?

iDarkWind9 votes

{quoted} This is because his champions are gutted or simply don't have an impact since AD assassins/champions just are much more viable Zed

What a fucking lie LOL If Zed was even that good he would pick it like he did in the preivous seasons and outplay the enemy mechanicly speaking. I'm not watching LCS lately, but I'm quite sure they don't pick AD assassins at all when there are safer picks and more usefull like Galio / Taliyah / Orianna, wich also have better wave clear, wich is all what mid lane is about nowdays.

Yaśuo Main9 votes

AD assassins more viable than Fakers champions? What the fuck? Fakers signature champion as STATED BY RIOT IS ZED. So why would Faker not pick him? Here is why, AD assassins are total ass in LCS and pro play in general, because they aren't AP.

SpecterVonBaren8 votes

The issue is that ADC's come online too early. If ADC's had the power curve that they did when I started playing (Where most of them took about 20-25 minutes to start doing some heavy damage) then the mid laner would have a purpose since they'd be a damage threat earlier.

ADC's used to be more of a fail safe than anything. They weren't the lynch pin to your damage unless the game went on to 30 minutes. You wanted them for their ability to take turrets at all points of the game but before they came online you were relying more on top/mid/jung to do the big damage. Now ADC's get their items so fast and deal so much damage that they're the only damage source that matters.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

ADC's used to be more of a fail safe than anything. They weren't the lynch pin to your damage unless the game went on to 30 minutes.

I remember when when hour long games weren't uncommon. (>_>)

Baron Barian4 votes

The problem is that in Pro games is that no one needs to be carried because they're all good at the game, unlike every solo queue game ever. Even though he's SKT's ace in the hole, a big reason they lost to Samsung galaxy in the world championship game was simply because Samsung was better as an overall team. And that final game had a very clear impact on Faker at the time. Perhaps now he's working around that old weakness.

This is a team game after all. So of course gold has to be teamspread, or at least have the right gold in the right players, and just have all the eggs in one basket.

EkyonKun4 votes

I thought they lost because Bang (The ADC) was borderline trolling.

saltran4 votes

Bang was the worse player at Worlds but all SKT team and their macro was outclassed by SSG and was used as a scapegoat, look at game 1 of the final and it's clear the difference between SKT and SSG, it happened the same when SKT lost to KT at LCK Quarter Finals a few weeks ago with Blank and ppl only blaming him instead of just admiting that SKT was a worse team.

Automated Riven2 votes

There were a few games that were definitely winnable if bang wasn't 'borderline trolling' and some very important teamfights were thrown just because of his insane need to constantly ult the adc to safety with tristana.

Snowman Arc1 votes

Well, then the same thing can be said in reverse. Faker got the title of the best while being in the team that won 3 world championships. Don't forget the insane 2015 line up, where Marin was destroying and solo carrying SKT.

Also, watch 2017 SKT Peanut. They scapegoated everything on him, because he doesn't play "camp Faker" style to help Faker get ahead. Now, Peanut is in KZ and he destroys everyone because he plays his style. SKT junglers always involved around getting Faker ahead, same to how TSM wanted to get Bjergsen ahead, or FNC making it all about Rekkles. It's honestly hard to not be the best, if you have your team strategy revolve around you.

And then, you have 2016, where supports were meta in the mid lane (Lulu, Karma, Orianna). He didn't have to carry the load and the team let Bang do the dirty work and carrying, and he won off of it.

big boi edri4 votes

Lol why would anyone upvote this garbage post? If Zed was good, Faker would use him and make plays. This whole post is ridiculous.

Douglas Funnie3 votes

"Runes Reforged" has turned this game into a pile of trash... League isn't competitive anymore. The skill-gap has been diminished...

Which is why we are seeing bad players become really good all of a sudden and higher skilled players being brushed to the side.

Sire Hippington3 votes

While the meta isn't favourable for faker, it's by far not the only reason. He never was as good as the hype. He sure is one of the best midlaners out there, especially in the lane, but there are plenty that have beaten him 1v1, and one of the major reasons behind his succes no longer is with SKT: Bengi. Bengi is the most underated player and he did all the subtle work that created the framework for Fakers(and SKTs succes). His controll of the game allowed faker to go for the plays he's knownfor without getting punished, and he nearly always was areound to help him out should the enemy team focus mid. Everyone is talking about Faker, while bengi won all worlds he attendet so far

Fefnil2 votes

since passive gold gain and a kill makes a lane impossible to win.

I just wanted to pass by here pointing one thing, since it's something I often see when looking around, and even though it's an understandable mistake, it's still a critical issue: Passive gold counters snowballing, it doesn't promote it. Let's make an example: if passive gold generation is 10 gold per minute, and a kill gives you 100 gold, how much did you earn? You earned 10 minutes worth of gold. It's a considerable amount. But if passive gold generation is 1000 gold per minute instead, and a kill still gives you 100 gold, then it's almost useless. You just put yourself 6 seconds ahead of your opponents, which isn't really that worth it, to be honest. So, again, high passive gold generation is set to soften snowballing and at the same time shorten game duration, since everyone will eventually get full build faster.

Elohaven1 votes

Shorter game duration means less time to play around your opponents, which in League - time is what you always need.

Fefnil2 votes

True, but we are talking about the combination of two things, kill gold and passive gold. If passive gold gets lowered but gold kill doesn't, the gain from the longer game doesn't offset the loss from the better snowball. Also, gold has an importance over time only until everyone is full build. After that point gold loses its meaning, and you have all the time you need to play around your opponents. So it's like saying, would you rather have a longer time where your opponent is massively stronger, or a shorter time where your opponent is still stronger, but slightly less? There really are no cons to the second choice.

WiegrafOfValor2 votes

I'm actually glad he's not playing in this meta, my heart broke when I saw him crying. He's a really amazing player, and their team was focus on him as the carry.

But Riot made it so midlaners can't carry anymore, so his carry potential went downhill, and their team lost their core strategy, having to rely on their adc and faker having to pick utility champions to support his ADC. We saw him trying a lot with those Galio picks, but at the end of the day, that's not his play style.

I'm happy that he don't have to go through that again.

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