So. Apparently Tank Yasuo is a thing, and how we should change him.

Toastersaot··62 votes·7,575 views

Yasuo currently has a 52.4% Winrate Top Lane. This usually wouldn't be a problem (hell, Morde Jungle had a 55% Winrate last patch) but currently he is one of the most popular Champions in the game with a 11% playrate.

Korean Build Lucian had a similar play rate and Winrate, and he was considered absoultely broken.

Only now, Yasuo's standard build, two Crit items and then AD, armor pen, and bruiser, is being replaced by Tank Yasuo.

Tank Yasuo has NO CRIT, and instead goes item 3078 item 3111 item 3022 item 3026 item 3068 item 3053 in that order. This build has a 54% Winrate top lane.

Frankly, I think the problem here is the high base damage on his abilities, followed by the sustained damage Fervor gives and the stickiness of Frozen Mallet.

So I think we should do this:

1: Increase reliance on Crit to damage by reducing base damage in his Q and E. As somebody else pointed out earlier, Q base damage is a decent, and the Crit penalty could make people want to build tank.

2: Make his E do physical damage. This would mean building Armor is always good. E is also maxed first because of its base damage being higher than that of his Q . Even with the armor pen on his ult, E will do less damage because people will stack armor. Also, why does a guy sweeping through someone with a sword deal MAGIC Damage? Never understood that.

3: Nerf Ult's armor pen. This is basically giving Tank Yasuo the final bit of oomph to kill enemies. I think that a good change would be to make his Ults armor pen apply ONLY to attacks that Crit. This means he must build Crit to do damage to enemies with armor.

Downvotes me to hell, I already know where I'm going.

108 Comments

Pika Fox15 votes

Play trundle into him. Tank yas builds tanky, hes no longer tanky. Youre tanky. He has no damage.

Have fun.

Orangesilk14 votes

You know, back when Darius was absolutely broken and landing pentakills left and right in the hands of mediocre NA players against KR players in worlds he could still be countered by different champions, this didn't make him any less broken.

This isn't DOTA, the existence of a counterpick does not imply balance.

My Waifu Vanilla2 votes

No, but people still love to counterpick themselves and scream OP. A champion (like Yasuo) may be overtuned, BUT when people do not respect that and pick something like Gnar into him and then get stomped in lane have no reason to complain when even a significantly UP Yasuo facerolls that lane match up.

It's like when people fire Ashe ult at Yasuo and then call Yasuo OP for blocking it. You have full control of the situation and you chose to fire the arrow at him knowing full well what was going to happen, but it is just Yasuo being OP and not your poor decision making.

TTK Dreadnought5 votes

Yasuo is a fighter.......

Marshbouy27 votes

but HES BUILDING TANK

Iageri20 votes

It's not really tank, it's a typical fighter build..

Garen, Gnar, Volibear, Mundo, and Darius..

They all get pretty tanky, but surprisingly their main role is fighter.


Right now Yas is played as a Mid lane Melee ADC, but apparently that falls off hard.... gee wonder why...

Marshbouy25 votes

you just listed 3 juggernauts.

TTK Dreadnought10 votes

Actually, 4 juggernauts.

However, a Juggernaut is a champion who is a combination of fighter and tank.

Yasuo, even if building tankier, will not be able to out-tank those mentioned champions.

MonkeyKing Riven Vi are great examples of champs who have common fighter builds.

Even Graves who is technically a marksmen, is built as a fighter half the time.

Iageri2 votes

But in game they're technically still marked under "Fighter"

BoundaryBreaker4 votes

So? Riot labels them juggernauts, they're frickin juggernauts.

Iageri5 votes

Well, the game was made by riot so I guess they're fighter juggernauts..

DONE.

Wind Whistler3 votes

{quoted}

you just listed 3 juggernauts.

Three? Who isn't a Juggernaut? Mundo or Volibear?

Marshbouy4 votes

i was incorrect. It is 4 juggernauts and gnar. dunno why i forgot about voli

chipndip14 votes

{quoted}

you just listed 3 juggernauts.

Juggernauts are fighters.

Also, Yasuo is a Slayer, Skirmisher specifically, not a fighter.

Marshbouy2 votes

juggernauts are a subclass of fighter and tank just like how slayers and skirmishers are a subclass of fighter.

CeexSett8 votes

Not even.

Juggernauts are a subclass of fighters, the other being divers.

Slayers are a whole class, and its subclasses are skirmishers (Where Yasuo is) and assassins.

http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Champion/Champion_Attributes

Serika Zero1 votes

come on, why are you even using the "attributes" assigned by rito when we know those are shitty as fuck

malzahar pre reworked was called an assassin instead of control mage right now, nocturne is featured as an assassin, while he is more of a fighter that dives the enemy back line and examples could go on and on

CeexSett4 votes

New attributes =/= roles attributed by the client. Nocturne is classifies in the game as an Assassin, but is qualifies by Riot as a Diver, that's why he isn't present in the Assassin rework.

Old Malzahar was an Assassin, the R would chunk any squishy for half their hp and the E would take the other half.

Serika Zero1 votes

i used to main malzahar, as in, pre rework malzahar.

it doesn't matter that his R+E would take half of the target's hp, he had very little to offer otherwise. meanwhile annie would take 100-0 a single target and 50% of nearby units in just 3 skills, yet she's a burst mage anivia takes 80% of a squshy's hp with R+E combo in mid to late game as well, yet she's not an assassin azir would take 50% of someone's hp with just WQ in mid to late game and just 2 auto attacks, which all together would take like 1 second. Also not an assassin.

Malzahar used to be assassin? haha good job riot had issue making proper attributes for their heroes since the beginning of time. That didn't change with new ones either. Such as Diana, being considered an assassin by all diana mains, being build as an assassin by all diana mains, being played with the playstyle of an assassin. Riot: SHE'S A DIVER!!!!!!! WE KNOW BETTER YOU NOOBS

CeexSett1 votes

How to stop someone who is salty about Malzahar rework/nerfs :D

Plus Diana was made to be a AP Bruiser, but people started building her as an assassin and Riot embraced the fact that she is an assassin. She is considered an assassin by the new attributes.

Anyone building full damage has the burst of an assassin in the late game, even ADCs, doesn't matter their attribute.

But why the hell am I arguing this with you? I have nothing prove about the new attributes, if you don't like them that's your problem. Deal with it B^)

Serika Zero1 votes

It doesn't matter if she was made to be an AP Bruiser, she IS an assassin. Riot considers her a Diver. That's what they constantly say in the "Assassins update thread". Go search for it. Every time a rioter comments on Diana they call her a Diver. While she is, by all means, and assassin.

My point is that riot doesn't know their own game and make stupid atributes quite often. Ekko was designed as an "assassin". Yeh right, he is definitely played an as assassin haha. Graves was designed as a ADC. Well, guess what, he is a jungler hue and so on.

I'm not salty about Malzahar rework. I'm salty about Fiora's rework. At least Malzahar still is similar to his former self which WAS NOT AN ASSASSSIN. But Fiora got raped and then thrown at the dump bin

CeexSett1 votes

Wtf so jungler is now an attribute?

You just lost all credibility, have a good day.

Serika Zero1 votes

no its not, but rework graves was "designed" to fill the adc slot: bot lane marksman.

Yet he got played mostly in top and jungle. With jungle left after all nerfs.

I don't want any credibility. I want you people to think for your selves and not take everything rito spoon feeds you for granted. Attributes being one of those.

meanwhile ekko doesn't even build ap anymore trinity force, frozen mallet, sunfire cape, boots, guardian angel, gage haha

CeexSett1 votes

Ekko has been a problem since weeks after his release when people understand that Tank was better. Riot also understands this and is trying to take care of it, but they can't just rework him so soon after he has been released.

Graves was designed to be a different aproach to a marksman: a very high damage sturdy champion that needed to be very close. He is more of a fighter than a adc really. And he never got designed to bot lane, the only champions designed specifically to their role are supports and (kind of) junglers. Riot prefers Graves in the jungle and balanced him to it.

EndlessSorcerer2 votes

Juggernauts are a subclass of fighter.

SpookyNeedle4 votes

{quoted}

It's not really tank, it's a typical fighter build..

Garen, Gnar, Volibear, Mundo, and Darius..

They all get pretty tanky, but surprisingly their main role is fighter.


Right now Yas is played as a Mid lane Melee ADC, but apparently that falls off hard.... gee wonder why...

There are subclasses of fighters, the ones you listed are juggernauts, Yasuo/riven/Fiora are skirmishers

ProfDrDeath8 votes

He's building tanky (as in, building to take some punishment), not tank.

Out of the six items mentioned above, only Sunfire Cape is arguably a tank item. And even then, it is more of a sustained damage melee item than an item strictly made for tanks.

Tank items: item 3143 item 3110 item 3083 - basically, items that offer a combination of defensive stats and utility

Juggernaut items: item 3053 item 3742 item 3748 - items that combine offense and defense, with only minor utility

Marshbouy2 votes

Do you think i do not understand that? tank=tank stats. He is a midlane glass cannon champion building tank/juggernaut items and going top lane and outperforming the mid build. That's considered an issue.

Pika Fox5 votes

A tank is someone designed to be in the frontline while also having the utility and CC to properly peel and provide support for the backline.

Yasuo cant be classified as tank under any interpretation because he lacks proper utility for his backline (QWR is too conditional/position dependent).

bill843 votes

Is windwall reliant enough? if you are counting that, he has plenty of utility.

Pika Fox2 votes

Its not for the purposes of a tank. Braum's shield is far better for that use.

Windwall puts a defensive area between him and the direction he uses it. If he frontlines, hes not going to stop a diver with it who is threatening his backline.

On the other hand, braum has a direct gap closer that allows him to jump to the carry and put up a mobile shield to body block for them, making his shield fit for purpose.

Yasuo's wall is used for area denial so that he can do his job as a hyper carry without being blown up by the backline, not to protect his own backline.

Marshbouy2 votes

i am facepalming so hard. You are literally ignoring the fact that the tankbruiser build is making him OP and pointing out that he can't be a true tank. an AOE knockup and projectile blocking is pretty good utility, even if he isn't a tank by your terrible definition.

Pika Fox4 votes

Your definition of OP could use some work...

And even if my definition is "terrible" (its correct), he would never fit the definition of tank by any metric. Q and R is utility, but its gated, making it ineffective peel. Likewise, W is ineffective protection if the enemy is diving your team, as its positioned slightly in front of you, not your team mate, who needs it.

Pika Fox3 votes

Yasuo is a melee AD hypercarry. Like yi/trynd.

TTK Dreadnought2 votes

Because MasterYi Jax XinZhao Irelia has never built tanky...

item 1416 item 3124 item 3153 item 3748item 3053

Matter of fact, just had an irelia in my most recent game build as her first 3 items. item 1416 item 3078 item 3053

Pika Fox5 votes

Thats not "tanky". Thats typical bruiser.

Also rageblade botrk is not tanky.... nor is trinity

4th3t0s6 votes

Except neither tryn or yi hit worth a damn if they're not building significant damage, that's the whole point of the thread,

Shahamut5 votes

What I think is sad is that this no crit stuff works, and basically just wastes Yasuo's passive crit bonus.

yay nibbers4 votes

Yes, give him across the boards nerfs, make his already just below average crit buils even weaker.

As a Yasuo main I agree his bruiser build is a bit strong but nerfing him without compensation for his 'intended' build just leads to a gutted champion. Though I'm sure the Boards circlejerk would be more than happy to have a gutted Yasuo.

Blåbæret3 votes

@You don't compensate when nerfing Something that's broken.

SlashStriker3 votes

Apparently Tank Yasuo is a thing

so we have to nerf everyone that is not following the meta? I mean Yasuo is trading huge amount of damage just to go full tank.

Furthermore Yasuo is a skirmisher or Light Fighter. That means he can build tank if he wants to

What if Ashe Ashe suddenly decides that build Tank is good enough and play her as support or I dunno use your imagination

What if Vayne Vayne decides to build Attack Speed Tank?

What about Gragas Gragas that is suppose to be Tank but players build his as AP Assassin?

NineTailedMystic6 votes

Because his off build is more effective than his intended build, while outputting similar levels of damage and being incredibly hard to kill.

Jet Sett13 votes

Ekko Fizz MasterYi

"We can tank if we want to, we can leave your friends behind. Cause your friends don't tank and if they don't tank , well they're no friends of mine!"

Ariel the Cruel8 votes

Akali We can tank. Anivia We can tank Teemo Everybody's get'n real mad. . .

Kivolan2 votes

I honestly find Bloodlust to be more broken on him. Unless you can burst him down in one combo he never dies. Bloodthirster also seems to be a popular item right now for him.

HateDaddy2 votes

Not really a tank build, it's a bruiser build. And he does need to be rebalanced around his niche, which is crit. His bruiser build is way too effective and doesn't really "fall off" like many off build bruiser builds did. Bruiser Yi had a similar problem, he still melted squishes with a relatively low damage/high durability build while it never really fell off.

I don't really know how to change bruiser yasuo without hurting the standard yasuo build though, which his standard build is totally fine. this one is a bit more complex.

Venomar2 votes

Triforce needs to go in its current state.

Tank ekko is making a comeback too. With Triforce.

Basically if any hero that isn't a Mage, is lame, just throw Tri force on them and now you can build whatever the hell you want on them.

RavenMagus3 votes

It's not Triforce so much as the game as a whole is incredibly high in damage.

Everyone does insane amounts of damage and it's easier than ever to blow up a squishy with nothing but base damage on a lot of champs.

More from Gameplay

More by Toastersaot