AA is a bandaid and ripping it off is going to cause issues. (Also y Galio/Taliyah nerfs)

Bern··4 votes·852 views

EDIT: The nerfs are only to AA and not Seraph's. OOPS. Point stands a little, still, but it's not nearly as painful an issue as it appeared to be. That being said, Lost Chapter is still way overpriced, so this is more a nerf to mana-using midlaners than any incentive to get Luden's/GLP rip

For reference, the PBE nerfs are reducing the AP on the item to 1% of max mana from 3% of max mana.

The things I said about AA a while ago still apply.

  • Seraph's already has decided drawbacks. You're putting 750 gold into an item that gives you almost zero lane presence and investing into scaling. The fact that people are doing this even on champions that WANT early presence or map pressure (and would therefore prefer to opt out of a tear), like Taliyah, indicates to me that the other items are just bad. The other items and their buildpaths just don't cover their needs in the same way old Morello did and Seraph's now does, to the point that they're willing to buy into scaling even if it's traditionally undesirable.

  • Nerfing the Seraph's shield won't make people buy the other items more, because they still won't do what they're intended to do. Yes, there's a whole lot of talk now about "squishier mage builds" and "survivability with seraph's shield" as a caster color point, but that strikes me as bonus and not the root cause, since even champions that buy into Liandry's or new Morello second item -- which means they'd have the same survivability as before the itemization changes -- are buying Seraph's. Luden's doesn't offer enough, and GLP offers virtually nothing (has it even been built once in pro play?).

If I had to guess, the Seraph's nerfs have a lot to do with trusting new manaflow band will make the other items better for sustain, and carving out a niche for them by pushing seraph's AP into the dumpster. (It probably also has a lot to do with the fact that whoever made new manaflow band apparently forgot Seraph's would interact with it for a cushy 7.5 AP that probably breaks some thresholds. I would say it also has to do with %missing mana regen disproportionately rewarding large mana pools, but you already always have enough mana with AA anyways, so that's actually a nonfactor imo.) Unfortunately, it doesn't change that lost chapter is a garbage buy. Instead, it just makes every mana purchase feel like shit, because either you're buying into sustain but no damage with tear, or you're waiting way too long to back to get a lost chapter. Not sure what this really does except make every mana user feel way, way worse.

It also really fucks over champions who were tuned to need tear from the get-go, who were mostly along for the ride this whole time unless their name was Ryze or occasionally Cassiopeia. The full scaling build of RoA+AA loses a lot of punch on this model as well (mostly from AA's nerf, but still).

In general, it feels like the mana rework essentially appropriated tear to do a job it was never meant to do (i.e. it's now used to give normal sustain+CDR instead of fix mana pool issues and promote scaling), and you're gutting tear/AA now that you've seen it causes problems when its designspace is used to do a job it probably shouldn't be doing. It seems more like you should just give the AP items another pass with the lessons learned from this round.

Anyways, Galio/Taliyah nerfs:

  • I get that he's still good in pro play, but Galio is a dumpster fire in solo queue right now, and a power rebudget (take some power out of his ult pls) seems more appropriate for Galio. He literally feels like garbage to play with how q is currently tuned; it just feels like a weak manasink that isn't off CD when you want it and I can only imagine HP/level nerfs are only going to make him feel worse.

  • Taliyah nerfs just look like they'd feel bad because 1) she already uses new manaflow band kind of poorly (primarily wants to clear the wave and can't harass through minions well unless they're on top of said minions), and 2) she's probably going to get hit real bad by the tear changes at the same time. I'd also be a little concerned about Galio q syndrome at early levels (can't clear wave like she wants, spells not quite off CD, might generally feel bad). Can't honestly say the Taliyah nerfs are unjustified, though, given her overall powerlevel in competitive. = / I don't wanna see it, but it's not like I don't understand why it's happening, so rip

N.B.: It's not directly related to anything but I still wanna say it: I hate how new manaflow band rewards champions with passthrough/ground-targeted skillshots versus other laners. RIP

4 Comments

Profirix1 votes

I just want to comment on the archangel PBE changes: 1% of maximum mana as AP is a heavy-handed nerf. You need 2000 mana to get 20 AP out of it now, and with a passive that attrocious, you really should focus on making it THE defensive mage item for mana-heavy players. Put more power back into the mana shield if you are going to gut the offensive firepower. It isn't that Seraphs Embrace is an amazing item, it is the ONLY item that is currently even remotely competent of the mana pool items.

GLP is actually one of the worst items in the game now. Morellos is situational at best and offers little more than grievous wounds against heal-heavy comps. Ludens Echo is arguably ok, but the passive proc is so weak that its ratios are virtually worthless for additional poke (just take comet).

Cynikul1 votes

Ok, I usually got Riots back on changes but this nerf is fucking stupid. Absolutely uncalled for.

Are mages so OP right now with AA that this needs to be changed? I see fuck tons more problems from top and support and ADC than I do in Mid lane. And arch-angels is a super niche item that I build in maybe 5% of my games, and its getting NERFED? It's not even that strong which is why I skip it. It offers virtually NOTHING to your laning phase or wave clear, its not even defensive enough against AP assassins like LB or Fizz that it feels meaningful, and it takes forever to stack with a lot of the champions I play.

This item is literally the only thing that keeps Mid Lane Lux and some other champions around. Without it or the nerfs incoming, you're throwing away a lot of the "weaker" mid lane potentials for literally absolutely no reason. Admittingly it might need a slight nerf, but looking at its stats itself? Hell no, don't touch that shit. That's stupid as fuck.

Whoever brought this up in a meeting, smh. I dont think you understand balance.

C9 Squeeky 1 votes

Tear's unlimited mana for wave clear is having no lane presence?

Galio Q was a harsh nerf, hope they partially revert it.

Bern1 votes

Well, the idea is it gives no lane presence in comparison to lost chapter. But yeah, what you're saying isn't wrong (waveclear is a form of lane presence and also, more importantly, map presence).

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