Squishy people, do you think you should just facetank a tank?

Ralanr·Mar 3, 2017·79 votes·5,015 views

Sorry if this triggers people.

174 Comments

Tychusfindlay919Mar 3, 201744 votes

The best is when they try and facetank a juggernaut

RalanrMar 3, 201713 votes

Oh those silly squishies. When will their crazy hijinks end?

A Bad NasusMar 3, 201717 votes

{quoted}

The best is when they try and facetank a juggernaut

melee mode Vayne vs Darius

KnoyleMar 3, 201729 votes

Vayne Wow, um... balance?

Darius Wow, um... Don't tumble into e range?

5000000000000000Mar 3, 201725 votes

Vayne tumbles into auto range

Pierce The VealMar 4, 201724 votes

{quoted}

tumbles into auto range

Tumbles into a 1v5 team with baron and elder dragon

"Lol adc 2k17"

Sire HippingtonMar 3, 20174 votes

the worst is when they succed doing so [slayer-jinx-unamused]

Ariel the CruelMar 4, 201710 votes

item 3153 ggez item 3072 ggez item 3181 ggez item 3812 ggez

Ashe I'm a squishy damage dealer. Honest!

TotalJerkMar 3, 20175 votes

As a general rule of thumb most champions automatically lose at melee range to juggernauts unless they are VERY fed or a straight up hard counter. I don't care how tanky you are, do not try to facetank Mordekaiser.

Truly PridefulMar 3, 201729 votes

No, because I don't plan on letting you near me my good sir.

RalanrMar 3, 20177 votes

I like this answer a lot.

VekknaMar 3, 20173 votes

Zac Malphite Hecarim

be like "fuck your plans"

Truly PridefulMar 3, 20171 votes

Those are the guys I pray to god my team is paying attention and/or I have flash up. Screw Vi especially, almost entirely reliant on my team saving me there.

VekknaMar 3, 20178 votes

That's the point. Squishies don't have an expectation that they can face-tank. They have an expectation that tanks should not be assassinating them with little to no counterplay.

Truly PridefulMar 3, 20178 votes

She's not really a tank though, just a very potent diver. If the target's team doesn't help quickly she will just obliterate the target.

VekknaMar 3, 20177 votes

A potent diver...with the hp, resists, and kit defense of a tank.

I love how people invent terms to describe overtuned tanks to make them sound like they're not actually overtuned.

That argument works for champs like Shyvana, who can get really tanky and do a lot of damage but lack cc. The argument really falls apart when you add shields and multiple hard ccs.

Truly PridefulMar 3, 20176 votes

Where is her defence though? Her shield is her only form of defence and even then it's not completely on demand. Actual tanks actually benefit from building only tank items, if Vi built full tank you would just ignore her because she needs some damage to be a threat.

I understand what you're saying, but it does not make her a tank. If she falls behind she also becomes very useless whereas a Poppy / Maokai have defensive abilities that still allow them to have value even when behind.

Also I have no reason to defend Vi as I never play her, I main Jhin / Ashe. I just disagree with her being a tank and have never seen her as one regardless of build style.

HateDaddyMar 3, 201725 votes

{quoted}

be like "fuck your plans"

Hec and Vi aren't tanks tho

VekknaMar 3, 20174 votes

Ahh, there it is! Trinity +4 tank items with multiple ccs, hard engage, high bases, and kit sustain =/= tank.

RalanrMar 3, 201729 votes

Hecarim and Vi are expected to hurt you though as they are more designed towards damage rather than lockdown.

HateDaddyMar 3, 201713 votes

{quoted}

Ahh, there it is! Trinity +4 tank items with multiple ccs, hard engage, high bases, and kit sustain =/= tank.

Uh? Are you trying to be sarcastic or something? I want to give you the benefit of the doubt on the premise that there's no way you're foolish enough to think their kits are inherently tanks because they share similar features. With that logic, mages are tanks because they typically have hard CC.

Papa AndreiMar 3, 20172 votes

Just devils advocate here, Lets compare Tank golden boy Nautilus, to Hec and Vi. Vi and Naut both have a multi target ulty cc, that functions the same. Vi just becomes the CC. They both have a single target displacement that brings them and the enemy closer. Both have a decent damage AOE ability. They both have a Max health shield. One just has Max health damage and one has a snare. Now Hec and Naut. Both have a multi target ultimate CC, but Hec has to move with the cc and aim it. They both have a single target displacement that moves both targets. Hec has healing vs Naut Shields. Both have AOE. Hec and Vi Both have more Health per level, Armor, and MR growth, along with Health Regen. All base stats are within the same around a 10% error margin (90vs 81 Armor)

ChaoticPineconeMar 3, 20175 votes

Hecarim's healing does a lot less than Naut's shield, especially as the game goes on. Vi's shield, while on a shorter cooldown earlygame, also does less - not only is it weaker at all stages of the game, it has 1/3 the duration. Plus, there is a static 5-13 second downtime on Vi's shield. Naut starts the game with 10 secondodwntime, and through the right setup can have zero downtime, though a more traditional setup will lower it to at least a 2.5/1 second downtime.
Vi's single target CC and Nautlius's single target CC function differently. While their respective Q's close the gap, Naut brings the enemy halfway to him while Vi goes to the enemy. A Naut who engages will put both teams in the same distance away from each other with Naut + his target being locked up in the middle. If Vi tried the same thing, she would be diving 1v5. Same thing with Hecarim's engage, but at least Hecarim can function as a primary tank/diver with the amount of AoE cc his ult brings.
Naut has a lot more CC than either Vi or Hecarim. Slows are still CC, and Naut has his passive stun.
Vi doesnt have better base stats aside from health at the earlier levels. She doesnt have better growth in Health or Armor (and all champions who get MR/level get the same exact growth).

5000000000000000Mar 3, 20174 votes

Passive snare.

Sahn UzalMar 3, 201715 votes

Graves Yup. :^)

EDIT: Nvm, you said Squishy people. mb

HateDaddyMar 3, 201714 votes

I could offer a retort along the lines of why tanks expect to be able to walk up to squishies 1v5, have enough damage to kill them and still survive 5 man focus.

Tanks do too much damage in this game, this is their biggest problem systematically and it overshines their abilities to be actual CC/damage absorbing/zone controlling tanks. Simply pick the tank that can abuse their base damages while being virtually unkillable for a vast majority of the game and proceed to faceroll until squishies are dead.

i acknowledge that damage is out of control but I cannot stress enough how tanks don't care about this the same way bruisers or light fighters do. As a result, those bruisers feel virtually unplayable. And some of this is also a result of tanks outclassing bruisers because they're far more durable and while their damage isn't necessarily comparable, tanks do enough to kill squishies quickly and wet noodle everything else to death and that kind of balance is equally as bad as squishies outpouring the obscene amounts of damage they currently are outputting.

RalanrMar 3, 20173 votes

How do you feel about Sion killing squishies?

EndlessSorcererMar 3, 201721 votes

Sion item 3142 item 3147 item 3814

Draven "We have received word of an 800lbs man with an axe hiding in the bushes." Janna "We advise caution until the threat has been dealt with." Draven "Unless you are one as great as Draven. Obviously, you aren't."

TheMinezMar 3, 20173 votes

Sion item 3027 item 3285 item 3100 item 3089 item 3165 item 3158

The train can pop squishies in front of it and keep going.

5000000000000000Mar 3, 20171 votes

AP Sion has no ultimate damage

Glory ln DeathMar 4, 20173 votes

He's talking about his shield.

HateDaddyMar 3, 20177 votes

{quoted}

How do you feel about Sion killing squishies?

Sion is the best designed champion in the game because he actually has gameplay behind every single one of his spells. So it doesn't bug me that Sion can do this. This is a complete contrast to shit like Poppy, Nautilus, Maokai (his damage vs squishies does fall off in fairness) and even shit old Sej and Gragas just pressing buttons on you and deleting your HP bar. I don't expect every tank to be like Sion because skins design is so unique but most of these tanks need to have their power redistributed so that they are actually unkillable but they aren't going to kill anything by themselves (like Braum and Alistar). If this means solo lane tanks die until this happens or a better scheme is designed, so be it. I'd rather play in an assassin/bruiser/mage/light fighter meta because unlike tanks, they are all reasonably killable at every stage of the game.

Rant[/rant]

RalanrMar 3, 20171 votes

What do you mean by having gameplay behind all of his spells?

HateDaddyMar 3, 20174 votes

{quoted}

What do you mean by having gameplay behind all of his spells?

You can outplay his spells but if he lands them (especially fully charged), he hits like a truck. And that's perfectly acceptable. Meanwhile, Naut presses R on you and mashes E while sharing you in place. Maokai presses W/R. Sej mashes the keyboard. There's no gameplay here and that would be okay if they didn't have the ability to simply outright kill you.

Big LincolnMar 3, 201711 votes

squishy people don't know how to play squishy champs

that's why they die so much

DisulfiramMar 3, 20179 votes

Well, yeah. I expect a Leona to lock me down for an hour, during which another enemy can kill me. I don't expect her to also 100->0 me. I expect Malphite to knock me up and debuff me for his team, not to be solo killed by him before the debuff is even applied.

So, yeah. I expect to be able to facetank a tank 1v1.

TyrekGoldenspearMar 3, 20177 votes

I once killed a twitch as leo because he abandoned kiting and just let me trade blows.

RalanrMar 3, 201710 votes

He stopped acting like a cowardly rat. Big mistake on his part.

TyrekGoldenspearMar 3, 20174 votes

Yes, it was also ascension so we had equal gold plus I had sheen.

RalanrMar 3, 20177 votes

I guess he wanted to praise the sun and end his vile ways.

Hailey HayatoMar 3, 20176 votes

{quoted}

Sorry if this triggers people.

Yeah I think I can facetank a tank because they are a tank. They should not outdamage or out heal me as someone who builds lifesteal and damage.

RalanrMar 3, 201711 votes

But you're so squishy and it's burst damage.

Hailey HayatoMar 3, 20173 votes

{quoted}

But you're so squishy and it's burst damage.

Burst damage with no damage items should in theory do little to no actual damage so I can therefore mostly tank it considering their burst will most likely do damage in ticks, "ability 1" "ability 2" "Ult" etc etc.

RalanrMar 3, 20178 votes

You seem to be ignoring base damage.

Handin Out NapsMar 3, 20176 votes

There is a difference between reliable and unreliable damage. If you have tanks with reliable damage you end up with things like Naut and Maokai. These champs have terrible design because of the way they can easily soak up damage and kill squishy champions without much thought process. Then you have champs like Sion, he is full of counterplay and people wont complain if they end up dying to him. Riot already said they aim to take away the reliable damage from tanks, hopefully bringing them more towards Sion and further away from Sej.

RalanrMar 3, 20173 votes

I personally agree that tanks should have more unreliable damage. Gives them a better feel as these big guys that give an image of pain but can barely hit you to cause it.

Mira Arya EntheMar 3, 20174 votes

As somebody regularly getting kited on Shyvana. Who thinks this?

RalanrMar 3, 20175 votes

It's my sneaking suspicion that whenever someone complains about tanks doing too much damage they imagine that tanks should do so little damage that you shouldn't even have to kite them.

Some answers have proven me correct, others have shown otherwise.

HazyCloud7Mar 3, 20175 votes

There will always be a need to kite tanks, and it's because of the CC they provide. it shouldn't be because of the obnoxiously high damage some of them bring without building any semblance of damage, and hopefully the tank update does a little bit to address that.

RalanrMar 3, 20172 votes

See I see an issue if the only reason to kite a tank is because they CC me. If CC is the threat, then in a 1v1 the tank will always lose or alway has to run away.

Now granted, a 1v1 should be in the ADC's favor, but I don't think it should be so extreme that the Tank suddenly has to be an upstanding citizen and follow the restraining order.