Builds should be flexible

Mira Arya Enthe··25 votes·1,774 views

I see this posted a lot, mostly about top laners and mid laners. So as a jungle main, I thought I would do the same. To better players, this is obvious. But I am Silver and in my bracket, most people don't understand this. Which is fine, I'm going to try to help out.

I am going to use Shyvana, she is my main jungler and favorite champion.

These items are optimal on Shyvana, in an ideal situation. item 1416 item 3748 item 3022 item 3153 item 3091 item 3111 As in, Shyvana gets a lot out of these items due to her affinity for on hit and attack speed. What does this mean? Does this mean you should go into every game with your runes, masteries, summoners all setup for this build, and should build these items every game? NO!

What this means, is you should try to weave these items into your build, when they are the optimal choice, and you have the gold to invest in them. If the enemy team is heavy AD you should by no means build item 3091 especially early.

If the enemy team has no HP stackers and you MUST have early game presence, then instead of a item 1416 which provides the best late game dominance, you might consider a item 1401 for early game survivability or even a item 1400 as the AD hits harder early game, can lifesteal, scales your W and the CDR is great for your kit.

If your team has a lot of tanky lockdown you might forgo buying the item 3022 for a while, and invest in damage items.

If the enemy team has a million slows and lockdown attack speed won't do you much good. Might skip most the AS items entirely and go for tanky items to survive or better burst items to optimize the damage you can do when the window is open.

In the past three days I have had Shyvana builds varying from pure DPS, to tank, to on hit, to chase build, to split push build to duelist build. All of which have worked well for their situation. Even if the individual items were not "optimized for the champion".

So instead of going into a game and saying: "My champion benefits from attack speed. I am going to hit 2.5 attack speed and forgo all other stats."

Think to yourself, especially as a jungler: "What stats and items will best help me provide pressure for my team, survive engagements and make me a viable champion early, mid and late game."

Focus your build on what your team needs, what the enemy team has, and what you can do with your champion. Don't get caught up theory crafting what is optimum in a vacuum chamber. Remember the game is live, it isn't a patchwork DPS race. Things happen fluidly. Your build options should match this.

24 Comments

It Hertz When IP13 votes

You mean like if the enemy team's stacking armor, maybe the ADC should get Last Whisper/Black Cleaver? HA!

cries in Bronze

Erockandroll1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Darien Juranas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UvURbZlP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-09-12T21:25:44.439+0000)

You mean like if the enemy team's stacking armor, maybe the ADC should get Last Whisper/Black Cleaver? HA!

cries in Bronze

To be fair, ADCs probably have one of the most finicky item builds. Considering they usually need a balance of AD, AS, and crit chance to get their god like DPS. But it's also more of point where everyone else can help take on the tank. (Were not exactly in the Protect the carry meta at the moment.)

The other problem with Build diversity is Balance. If one particular build becomes dominant. Riot ends up balancing around that build path. (Cause changing the items would have a much larger ripple in balancing) In this case, I wouldn't be talking about about "Tank Assassin builds" but rather just having 3 different build paths on the same champion, and performing a similar function. You will end up with one optimal build path, and trying to counterbuild your opponent otherwise, will likely result in a less that optimal (not necessarily unviable) build path.

Mira Arya Enthe1 votes

{quoted}

To be fair, ADCs probably have one of the most finicky item builds. Considering they usually need a balance of AD, AS, and crit chance to get their god like DPS. But it's also more of point where everyone else can help take on the tank. (Were not exactly in the Protect the carry meta at the moment.)

The other problem with Build diversity is Balance. If one particular build becomes dominant. Riot ends up balancing around that build path. (Cause changing the items would have a much larger ripple in balancing) In this case, I wouldn't be talking about about "Tank Assassin builds" but rather just having 3 different build paths on the same champion, and performing a similar function. You will end up with one optimal build path, and trying to counterbuild your opponent otherwise, will likely result in a less that optimal (not necessarily unviable) build path.

I feel these are exceptions rather than the rule. Even then, even if I must get a Black Cleaver on most bruisers for example. Most if the rest of the build will be open to options depending on your comp, your lane enemy, the enemy team, the condition of the game, the immediate needs of your team, the future needs of your team and the overall strategy you are going for.

Even ADCs get the choices of ER or IE. 4 zeal items. 2 last whisper options. 3 lifesteal items. 3 major defensive items. 3 other pen items and boots. Some even branch out into off spec items like Triforce.

Ok sure but why6 votes

There are some people who are very much opposed to such flexibility. They love what's considered "meta."

Veltox1 votes

The kind of people copying everything Pro's do without thinking how that works. For example the enemy team got a very competent Morgana and your adc refuses to buy item 3102.

RainbowIcee2 votes

A banshees wouldnt really help much at all considering her Q will be up again before your banshees is so learn to dodge and ward and is better to buy a Qss to escape if you get caught because a banshees can be baited / remove to apply an even stronger cc. Bansheesh is very easely broken it absorbs any skill not just CC skills, a proc from a spell will kill it. Its that fragile.

Ok sure but why1 votes

Evelynn nice veil

Tobias Brackner4 votes

OH my god yes this this this this.

Too many people just blindly build items without thinking because "it's core"

I've seen people rush Ranaans on skirmish composititions with plenty of waveclear and it's just "whyyyyy?"

Lil Gr33n Ghouls1 votes

Runaan's still makes sense on some champs despite not needing wave clear because the passive and AS works so well with their kit that it's still the best damage option for team fights or even smaller fights with 2-3 people. Twitch, and Kalista are the two that come to mind.

EDIT: But yea on some champs it might be smarter to to go for another AS item, or switch out Statikk Shiv for a RFC, if you don't need wave clear.

Sir Fuzzi1 votes

Cait. Runaan's hits count as hits for her passive. Two AAs and a headshot? Where do I sign?

To consider that, it means she probably similarly benefits from Guinsoo's, as trivia.

I shouldn't talk, though. I still have issues convincing AD champs of any kind to build Grievous Wounds against Mundo, Swain, Olaf...

Tobias Brackner1 votes

Even in smaller fights you are hoping that enemies stand close to each other. If it's the kind of pokey-harass scenario like most skirmishes wind up being then you are better off with RFC or Phantom Dancer for their abilities.

notmarked3 votes

builds are flexible people just copy paste their favorite guide

Aeszarck2 votes

{quoted}

builds are flexible people just copy paste their favorite guide

While I copy/paste my favorite guides, most of them include multiple build paths and give advice on which ones to build in which situations. That is one reason why they are my favorite guides.

Astôlfo3 votes

"wtf dis be so dum wuai cant i just copy from champoon.geegee"

TyrekGoldenspear1 votes

You misspelled "why".

SlashStriker2 votes

Builds should be flexible

except that people don't want ADC to build armor pen

I personally want Jungle Item with crits but people think its stupid or something

doiminat0r36002 votes

People in lower elos dont grasp the concept that you should swap out item 3143 for item 3742 if the enemy AD isnt focused on crits. They also don't seem to understand that if the other team is 3 AP and 2 AD, you need to get one more MR item than Armor or atleast focus on MR

Drakylon2 votes

{quoted}

People in lower elos dont grasp the concept that you should swap out item 3143 for item 3742 if the enemy AD isnt focused on crits. They also don't seem to understand that if the other team is 3 AP and 2 AD, you need to get one more MR item than Armor or atleast focus on MR

Uh, 3 AP and 2 AD is the standard comp, and one of those APs is a support with relatively low damage.

And the reality is that tank MR itemization is lackluster compared to their armor counterparts. Even against a 4 AP comp, I'd still get Sunfire/Randuin's/Plate after a first MR item just for the passive and to survive the ADC better. Zz'rot gives no health, Banshee's passive is meh (and 70 is usually more MR than needed) and GA is more of a 6th slot pickup.

Erockandroll2 votes

{quoted}

Uh, 3 AP and 2 AD is the standard comp, and one of those APs is a support with relatively low damage.

And the reality is that tank MR itemization is lackluster compared to their armor counterparts. Even against a 4 AP comp, I'd still get Sunfire/Randuin's/Plate after a first MR item just for the passive and to survive the ADC better. Zz'rot gives no health, Banshee's passive is meh (and 70 is usually more MR than needed) and GA is more of a 6th slot pickup.

I mean, if your balancing your Armor/MR purchases base on the AD/AP ratio, then your not including environmental factors. Considering that Towers deal physical damage and Minions deal physical damage, and most Jungle camps do physical damage. (Dragon and Baron being the exceptions.) Armor is just more important that MR.

The other issue is, AP is usually in the form of Burst, but tends not to offer good DPS. (Notable exceptions include Ryze, and Cass) In a lot of cases, the Burst damage can be shrugged off if you have high enough health. And even if your getting poked down, a sustain item like Wormargs might serve you better.

XxxLumberJackxxX1 votes

Banshees passive is the most op item passive.....

balbraaksel1 votes

Silver and Bronze are itemization disasters. Enemy has 3 tanks with one having a Thornmail? Oh lets get 100% crit because I don't do enough damage! xD

hi im minty1 votes

I had a game one time where our top laner was getting wrecked in lane. I told her to build some armor against the enemy and she said "this is the build for my champ" but...................................you're down in kills, you're down in cs..............................why?

Shifue Draven1 votes

Honestly i play tanky/bruiser jungles and i don't build shyvana this heavy in damage. i build bloodrazer of course cause it suits her i have done botrk but it's rare i do. I build more tank and i still get kills like crazy and do very good damage since the armor also players good off her passive. Plus the fact of diving them as a dragon you get more def. and they focus you making you more valuable for team fights. Yes i know right now i am bronze 1) i have no time to play due to my job 2) i played a lot with friends at first that did not pay attention and i am when i got time trying to get away from the stupidity of bronze. But seriously check my build out on on my profile and such and you will see my style and i promise it works.

Vistha Kai1 votes

I wish I had options, but as a mage main I always end up building the same 4-5 items every match.

Want to know why that won't change? Because "diversity" in Riot's handbook is gutting an item until it is not worth a slot.

"We are tired of the 'Athene's vs Morello' argument, so we are going to make Athene's worthless shit on 99% mid laners, because fuck you that's why."

Or...

"We want Zhonya's to be a situational defensive AP item, so it's neither defensive nor AP. But the cost is lower! Hurr durr durr"

That's not exatly the point of this thread, but I figured out it should be mentioned.

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