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Honestly, can we finally remove flash?

DiveAlive··13 votes·1,232 views

It's not healthy to have an almost mandatory spell on a huge cooldown that makes any immobile champ super deadly but only when they have flash available.

It's just silly with all of the item changes and team synergy that we still have this grossly unecessary crutch.

Remove the spell and see way more diversity in items and team comp. players/champs shouldn't rely on a gigantic spell, playing passive while it's down and then every 5 minutes they are able to actually pvp.

Im terribly terrible at expressing my point but I hope other people can compensate my lack of reasoning and back me up on this.

Basically, if flash was deleted, you would see more team comps picking up things like righteous glory, mikaels and using mobility utility champs like bard, lulu, kayle etc..

Or maybe they choose to go for more of an all in type comp.

Currently flash like lets people play whatever they want, however they want while they have flash up because they know they can get away with it, jsut because of that one spell.

Flash toxic for the game please remove it.

Please feel free to debate or support the removal of flash.

32 Comments

CppL7 votes

If you remove flash ,you can remvoe all immobile champs.Cause thye gonna be usless.

lHopeBotWins4 votes

{quoted}

If you remove flash ,you can remvoe all immobile champs.Cause thye gonna be usless.

Not at all, with proper positioning you'll never blow flash. Flash is just used for an emergency if you mess up/ get caught. Nobody relies on flash, it's just a get out of jail free card

Kitten of Evil2 votes

Why should an immobile champ always have to be properly positioned, while the Zed or Ekko rarely have to worry about overextending or getting pincered between enemies?

With flash in the game, everyone has an escape -- for immobile champs its cooldown is 5 minutes, for mobile ones it's usually around 8-15 seconds. That's fine because immobile champs are usually stronger in their zones of control, and shouldn't be getting caught out often. But without flash, only some champions have an escape -- immobile champions have none while mobile champs still have it every 8-15 seconds or so. The difference between one escape every 5 minutes and no escape at all is huge.

Immobile champions would never roam or risk placing deep wards in enemy jungles because there would be no chance of escape against any gap closer.

redniwediS1 votes

This is actually how things are at this time, don't pretend otherwise. As Kratos said Flash is just a get out of jail free card, if you are immobile and have poor positioning it will be on cooldown most of the time, and therefore cannot save you. Mobile champions, however, have different requirements to their positioning.

With this said look at the Juggernaut update. Immobile champions are supposed to be walking zones of threat. If someone with gap closers makes a positioning mistake they lose a large chunk of their health.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Having one escape every 5 minutes should be enough for a good immobile mage. In an average game it might save you two or three times. I think you really underestimate the difference between "everyone has an escape, but the cooldowns differ" and "these guys have zero escapes ever while these guys have them every 12 seconds". That's really the difference here.

Mobile champions, however, have different requirements to their positioning.

Yes, namely they have fewer requirements. A mobile champion can stay in baron or dragon pit for longer during fights because they can hop over the wall. They can push lane harder knowing they can dash away if the enemy jungler comes. They can try to flank enemies because even if they get flanked in return, they can dash over a wall and out. They can roam and apply pressure to other lanes without worrying about being followed and pincered. In a fight, they have two choices -- turn and fight, or run. An immobile champion has no choice. It's "turn and fight, in the hope that you kill them or make them run away."

You say Flash is a get out of jail free card. I may agree. But then by the same logic, I've seen a Leblanc use W as a get out of jail free card. I've seen Kat, Zed, Lee all use their mobility as a get out of jail free card. Why should they be the only ones allowed to get out of jail free?

Mobility is a huge advantage. This is why immobile champions take what little mobility they can get -- Flash. It is essential to the balance of the game.

EDIT: I would point out, I think the availability of Flash makes mobility less of a huge advantage in the current version of the game. Because it fills a gap in the immobile kit, it does indirectly benefit those champions more. And because everyone has some access to mobility, it isn't game-breaking for it to be up more often on a mobile champion (within reason of course).

redniwediS1 votes

An immobile champion has no choice. It's "turn and fight, in the hope that you kill them or make them run away."

That is the price you pay for playing an immobile powerhouse. There's a reason immobile champions typically either have long range or high tank. I'm not saying everything's working well in practice, I'm just saying the idea of how things should be is fine.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Tanks often have some form of gap closer, actually -- Sejuani Amumu Nautilus Shyvana Shen Maokai Malphite.

redniwediS1 votes

Most true tanks, when played as a tank, wouldn't be considered a powerhouse. Shyvanna is not a true tank as her primary attribute is actually Fighter.

Kitten of Evil1 votes

Now you're just quibbling with words. You said that immobile powerhouse champions were generally long-range or high tank. I honestly can't think of one that falls into that category. Are there immobile bruisers? Sure, generally melee-ranged attackers, but they again have ways of catching up to enemies: Darius pull, Nasus Wither, Rammus Powerball, Galio gust. Even Alistar can gap close with a headbutt (I realize the last three are not bruisers -- but still).

No, the immobile champions I'd be most concerned about are the ADCs and mages. Varus, Ashe, Brand, Anivia, Vel'Koz.

redniwediS1 votes

I'm not saying everything's working well in practice, I'm just saying the idea of how things should be is fine.

I'm not "quibbling" with words here, and I don't plan on starting now, so I'll just leave this quote of me to end the conversation.

MisterHealYoGirl2 votes

It's also useful as an aggressive tool, though. Galio, Annie, Kennen, and others rely on it to initiate. Although other movement options exist (Kennen's E, Sivir ult, Righteous Glory) exist, those simply aren't very effective since their engages, though powerful, are very telegraphed, and they need the instant surprise gap closer to use their initiation. (If you see Kennen sprinting towards you, you're gonna CC him and scatter.)

Shroom Junkie3 votes

You want to make immobile champs even more immobile against mobile champs? uh

Eastrid3 votes

They wouldn't be able to get rid of summoner 4 without a lot of rework unless you would see nothing but the same mobile champs that have build in escape moves.

IcyPepper1 votes

Considering that the game is essentially balanced around flash at the moment, we can't just delete it without doing anything else. It's the core of summoner spells, not a bandaid that can be ripped off :/

khorney2 votes

Interesting concept remove flash and give revive back but revive on a much lowered cd like 200 secs

IllllllIIIIlllll1 votes

revive on 200 second cd would be so op that it would be another mandatory spell like flash

khorney1 votes

Yes but if flash was gone this would more then compensate for it and how would that be op. You revive in base nexus you have to run down the lane and so what if it allows people to defend there nexus more

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

Actually mostly mobile champions use flash to make surprise plays - like Riven. Ok, only Annie will be destroyed...

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

Actually mostly mobile champions use flash to make surprise plays - like Riven. Ok, only Annie will be destroyed...

Annie and Galio.

MLDzXnRRR1 votes

{quoted}

Annie and Galio.

I forgot that Galio exists...

IcyPepper1 votes

Galio? Isn't that the guy who suggested the Earth revolved around the sun?

IllllllIIIIlllll1 votes

gnar would get hit pretty big as well

The Yetii Rider1 votes

I've stated this in a similar thread but Flash is necessary for junglers who cannot traverse walls to steal dragons and barons. Champions like Nunu, Skarner, Udyr, Volibear, and Olaf are played in the jungle and have absolutely no other way to traverse the wall for a steal. Without Flash these champions would be discarded simply because they cannot contest these vital objectives and Righteous Glory does not help with that because you have to wade through the enemy team and you can't Smite while stunned.

Treeofwar1 votes

they took out revive for a reason they are not going to take out flash which is a big play making spell think about it if vel is ganked and he has used his E what can he really do vs a xin or vi? nothing he has no movement speed and everything he has is a skill shot so he needs the flash. Riot will never take out flash like this just because you think its unfair for unMobile champs to get something to save their life. annie has to use flash to get the stun off or they will just see it coming, gnar needs it for his ult in team fights, a lot of champs cant just dash over walls like zed or lucian so if they get caught out then what? Do they just say well im dead sucks for me should have picked lee sin instead of udyr.

Rebonack1 votes

Don't remove Flash.

Instead, improve its cooldown and cast range, but make it face-plant against walls.

Then give Ghost the ability to pass through walls ala Magical Journey once per cast.

Having instant movement AND wall jumping on the same spell is awful.

The Queen Viper1 votes

aww, you low elo scrubs...

{quoted}

Remove the spell and see way more diversity in items and team comp.

Don't know about items, but team comp and champ diversity would GO DOWN drastically. No more annie, or even alistar ... or anybody who relies heavily on Flash engages. Not to mention, every immobile champ would go out of the window and would not see any competitive play ever. You would literally turn this game into League of Mobility and games would turn into a massive farm-fests since people would be too afraid to play aggressively (unless they are playing mobility champs).

{quoted}

players/champs shouldn't rely on a gigantic spell, playing passive while it's down and then every 5 minutes they are able to actually pvp.

So instead, you want people to play passively almost the WHOLE game unless they exclusively play mobility champs? Really?

umbraˉ1 votes

They just need to completely overhaul and just redo every summoner spell

Sasogwa1 votes

No flash = Rip Galio

cookiesforu1 votes

Terrible thread, obviously a new player. Maybe once you've played this game for 5+ years you'll know what the heck you're talking about.

OxBaker1 votes

I'd like to see flash either removed or nerfed hard so that other spells could be as worth picking but it's never going to happen because flash is the cause of too many flashy LCS plays.

Havenscythe1 votes

Why not just delete the ADC role? You'll basically be doing the same thing.

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