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All of League is too Win-Loss based. (Includes Letter to Riot)

Emerald Fang··2 votes·1,258 views

EVERYTHING is win-loss.

What determines your initial rank? WIn-loss. Why people get into Gold when they suck: People carry them. They win. When they play on their own, they make everyone in their game mad, and that leads to overall chaos in the rank system

What determines IP gains? Win-loss. Has nothing to do with your K/D/A. If you're farming for IP might as well go 0/10 b/c you will still get the same amount no matter what.

What determines Mastery Score (Not letter grade)? Win-loss. You get NO mastery points if you lose (like 200 or so, but it is nothing). Even if you played a better game than Faker has ever played, you still get a max of maybe 250-300 if you lose.

Riot, this next part is aimed right at you. This is a polite note, and I am not trying to rage or vent, as I am not angry about this issue. This could easily be fixed and would improve League a lot. This not only covers the above problem but also a problem with Trolls.

I think your game is too focused on "Win or Loss", maybe because that's all that matters in competitive play such as LCS and Worlds. The general logic of your game is "If you do well, you will win." This is definitely not true. You can go 30/0 as jungle, but if everyone else is feeding, you can't do anything about it unless you're capable of going in 1v5. I think you are pushing this "Dynamic Queue" and "Playing with Friends" way too much; everything now, and any new features you have been adding, have been win-loss centered, implying that we should play with a team to do the best in our games. Some people, however, don't want this. It leads to many issues with a large portion of your player-base. Personally, I don't like playing with my friends b/c they don't take the game seriously, or taunt me mercilessly when I am behind or having a bad game. I can get very, very toxic and I don't like this because it may end up in me flipping out at my friends and losing a real-life friendship; so I usually avoid everything but soloqueue, because if I am in soloqueue I can just mute my teammates if they are giving me trouble. However you have been slowly closing this game off to solo players and I am afraid that one day you may go too far with something, and lose a massive chunk of your profits and players.

Back to the win-loss aspect: It really isn't fair to have everything based on whether your nexus or their nexus is destroyed. A few hours ago I went 11/6 with Vayne: A very good game where I ended up dying a lot at the end, but I overall performed pretty well (This was Normal, not Ranked). However we had issues with a feeder, a Wukong Mid, and a Kayle who went AFK for about 5-10 minutes (which threw off my lane phase hard). We ended up losing even though I had very good kills and some crazy escapes. I expect some sort of compensation for "hey, you did well, even though you lost." However, what do I get? 100 IP (Mostly b/c the game ran 35 minutes) and 200 mastery points. I got a B+ rating, but that was the only thing that wasn't based off of my loss. PLEASE make mastery score somewhat more proportional to your performance. Even 50% of a win would be nice.

Players repeatedly see this in ranked: Losing 22 LP on a loss, but gaining 16-18 on a win. Just on paper, this sounds very unfair. What also is unfair is that LP losses INCREASE with a lower MMR. It definitely seems to be a better option to flip it around; making it harder for players to get promoted but easier to come back from a losing streak. Also make it based on KDA, somehow. Carrying a game and losing to a very lucky Yi backdoor, which you just didn't see, doesn't deserve -22 LP. Losing because of a troll feeder (my next point) should be much less punishing, or maybe even loss-prevented.

My final point is with the trolling problem in League, especially Bronze. By now you should have seen some pretty bad forum posts about some sort of trolling and how Bronze is "ELO Hell". I hope you have seen this before because it is almost impossible to miss. ELO hell does exist, and it is pretty bad. I am in Bronze 2 so I probably don't get the worst of it but I know there are some horrible cases lower on the ladder. Trolls punish everyone. They make the game horrible to play (and you can't leave or you'll get a LeaverBuster), they make you lose 20-25 LP, and they discourage you from playing League, which means you lose precious PROFITS. I have heard rumors about a loss-prevent system for AFK and trolls, and it is desperately needed, true or not.

If you have read this, thank you. If you aren't Riot, comment +1, or even -1 if you disagree, to bump this to Riot.

I will probably bump this periodically; this is very important.

12 Comments

BluePolarizer2 votes

If we go with your system:

If I'm 10-0, the theoretical best thing for me to do if I have a feeding team is to AFK, since that won't risk my KDA becoming lower and losing even more LP for trying to save my team.

I've lost games where I had 20+ kills and less than 5 deaths. If we had your system in place, I would've just AFKed if I saw my team feeding instead of trying to help them. Likewise, if I'm playing a tank, why should I be engage, tanking and risking lowering my KDA, when I can just throw some AOE then run away to farm assists?

Emerald Fang1 votes

My point exactly. You wouldn't lose more LP b/c it's entirely MMR and win/loss based. AFKing might be a solution but if they are a troll they will likely report you for it and then you have a LeaverBuster. If you have 1 feeder than it may be okay but a whole team? Even if you had early FF and loss-prevent you would still be screwed b/c they wouldn't FF with you.

AFK might be a better option but the system screws you b/c you get LeaverBuster.

Smileyface1 votes

Alright guys, let's steal everyone's kills and AFK, sounds like a plan :)

[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]

Emerald Fang1 votes

lol

BluePolarizer1 votes

np I'll just farm jungle and run away from any teamfight then to preserve my KDA. There's ALOT of ways to not risk dying in League.

Also, it begs the question, how come SOMEONE is climbing? This season it may be due to dynamic queue but what about every other season?

Grievous Harm1 votes

Recently I had 10/2 score in a normal on Malzahar while he was super OP and I was purely playing him just to get the chest. Power farmed and was way ahead but still lost the game due to a couple of team mates feeding but I still got my S- by NOT protecting the nexus right at the end to protect my KDA. I wouldn't do the same in a ranked match but the incentive of the chest was greater than winning the game.

Emerald Fang1 votes

See, that would be worth it, especially if you have a few feeders.

If your team thinks they can still win when only your nexus is left...

BluePolarizer1 votes

I've won games in high plat/low diamond elo where only our Nexus was left, and lost games where only the enemy Nexus stood. In fact I lost a promo due to enemy inhib respawn as we were taking Nexus, us getting wiped and the enemy team taking our entire base.

Slythion1 votes

I've never understood why players just give up when there was an open nexus. I've won plenty of games with an open nexus, and lost to them with an open nexus as well

ModWulf Helhammer1 votes

Here's a little PSA: grades and mastery points are separate. Also, you can get an S+ even if you lose. Grade is based on how well you performed on the champion against everyone else who plays that champion

71883083DEL11 votes

it's actually really truthful, some of the stuff he said here. don't downvote cuz u think he is just another salty kid, READ IT.

I am Pacman1 votes

Ok so there was a fckton of text so I'm only going to comment on a couple of paragraphs that I did read.

Win-loss idea:

Wat? wtf are you talking about. Just about every single team/competative game there are only 2 options (sometimes tie but this is league so imma leave that out). You either win or you lose. Football, hockey, basketball and league. In each of these you can only win or lose. You don't get points for trying hard or playing a really good game. At the end of the day if you managed to get more points (finish off the nexus) then you win.

What determines your initial rank? Win-Loss

Well yeah, I mean wtf else is supposed to? Promos are only 10 games so its hard enough trying to place people based on that anyways. Play like another 30 and you will be at the appropriate rank. Also there is a limit to how hard you can carry a person. Also if you have a bunch of plat people boosting their gold friend in 5s team in dynamic que, wtf did you think the enemy was going to have? Probably a 5s team who are either all the same skill level (in which case they have an advantage not being one man down) or they are doing the exact same shit thus rendering the results null.

What determins IP gains? Win-Loss

Again kind of confused as to why this is a problem. If you win then you get more ip as a reward for winning. Its a pretty simple reward system. There is no reason to apply the mastery algorithm to ip gains to calculate the kda or other shit into it. Also nobody plays rift for ip farming they play twisted treeline and they certainly don't troll and lose games because again reward for winning. pretty simple stuff.

What determines mastery score?

Idk exactly but its certainly not just win loss. You get more points and a higher grade based on a range of gameplay mechanics such as farm to game time ratio, kda, wards placed etc. Nobody knows the algorithm they are using. Mastery may not mean much because enough games played you will eventually get mastery 5 but it at least demonstrates that you understand the champ you are playing. Allowing you to get the same amount of points when you lose as when you win would result in way to many mastery 5s who have no idea wtf they are doing with their champs.

"If you do well, you will win." and then you proceed to say no to that.

This kind of thinking irks me. That saying is just a shortened version of what is actually meant and nobody seems to have explained it to you. Ready? good. "If you do well consistently (across a bunch of games), then you will win a majority of them and as a result climb" People seem to think that just because they do well in a single game that they are entitled to win it. No. You have lost games where you were doing bad and on the other side you have also won games that you should have lost because of how bad you were feeding but got carried by the yasou mid.

This is a perfect example, that velkoz game, you got your ass carried by akali and twitch. The jhin game you got carried by graves. The caitlyn game carried by tryndamere.

That vayne game. The one you went 11/6.

Well usually the mastery rating is pretty accurate. Sometimes I get like an A or +A when I feel I should get a S but usually it reflects my performance pretty well. What kind of compensation? How do you give someone 50% of a win. That's not how wins work. Its a 100% you win or you 100% didn't win.

LP gains and losses.

Thats actually based off of your mmr and the average mmr of the division you are in. mmr is match making rating. No one has the formula but lots of sites can give you approximations like na.op.gg. If your mmr is higher then the current division you are in then you get more lp per game. When I played promos this patch I got placed in plat 5 and was getting 23-25 lp per game for a while and losing like 12-14. Once I reached my proper rating I settled and its about 20 for a win and 18-19 for a loss now. The same goes for if your mmr is lower than the divisions'. You will get those kinds of results.

Final paragraph about general stuff and the feeder/elo hell problem.

First off I can't really say that elo hell doesn't exist because i've never been in bronze. I can say however that if you are not at least gold in skill level then you probably aint making it out of bronze (don't worry though silver ain't much better). In the small sample size of matches I have played against bronzies or on a smurf or playing with friends who are way below me I can safely say that they are very easy to beat and it probably wouldn't take me to long to get out of bronze.
(I actually tried leveling up a smurf and playing promos but I finished promos with a score of 8-2 and got gold 5 by accident)

I'm going to make a distinction between trolls and feeders. Feeders can't be really blamed for losing games. It's not intentional (if it was then it would be trolling), and you are probably just winning games when the enemy feeds.

Trolls. Riot has done a pretty good job at banning people who are trolling. They try to get as many as possible but the system can only detect them after they have done it (so at least a couple games gonna be ruined) and they are reported for it. Although I personally haven't seen many cases of legitimate trolling, like the "I am going to ruin this game and proceeds to run down mid and suicides". Most of the time people will just start fcking around after they get behind but in your elo it doesn't matter because no one knows what to do to come back from behind anyways.

Last there is currently a system in the works to punish leavers. Not just a myth. Woot.

Final notes:

Read some guides on champs and look up some tips and tricks and guide to getting better videos for league. That's how I got better, its a lot easier for someone to tell you where are good places to ward or how to properly harass in lane than to figure it out by trial and error.

Just my two cents.

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