@Meddler & @Reav3 - The Karma Injustice of 2013 and Continued Injustice of 2017

Winterkill··28 votes·3,439 views

On 03/27/2013 Riot Games worked on a visual game update for Karma. This visual game update will go down as the worst visual game update done on a champion in League of Legends history, in the sense that Riot Games decided to place Developers who did not care or communicate with Karma players about changes they were making to her. Essentially what they did was create an entirely new champion, instead of recycling what was actually good on her or finding a way to make problematic things in her kit work. Let's break down everything the Developers removed from her:

Mantra System:

Karma's old Mantra System would empower her abilities and she would gain a Mantra Charge faster the more cooldown reduction she had. Instead of having an actual ultimate, she had 6 ranks on all of her abilities. Every time she cast her Mantra the other abilities she cast with it would have another effect. Karma could only store 2 Mantra charges at a time.

Why they reworked it:

> Karma’s kit was in a weird place, but her ultimate was especially problematic. Her base abilities didn’t feel impactful and only felt effective when supercharged by Mantra. On top of that, when Karma had two charges of Mantra, we had to make both of them weaker to compensate for players double casting empowered spells. The changes we made to Karma’s kit focused on making each decision fun and meaningful while giving her abilities the focus they needed to perform her intended role.


Passive:

Karma's old passive would grant her bonus AP when she was low on health. This would allow her to cast stronger shields, do more damage, and deceive her enemies in battle. It really allowed her to be a battlemage and really get into the brink of battles.

What they reworked it into:

Damage from Karma’s spells and basic attacks lower Mantra’s cooldown. What she went from her passive before turned Karma essentially into a poke mage that has to use auto attacks and abilities to refresh the cooldown on her R.


Karma's Q and Mantra Q:

Karma's old Q was a simple AOE damage spell that damaged enemies in front of her. With Mantra activated Karma would heal herself and her allies in the cone. Originally Karma's heal was on her Mantra Q and would heal for a base amount plus a percentage of their missing health.

What they reworked it into:

Her new Q was turned into a skillshot that deals magic damage and slows enemies. When Q is empowered by Mantra it Increases the damage and leaves behind a zone that slows and, after a brief delay, explodes for AoE damage.


Karma's W and Mantra W:

Karma's old W created a tether between herself and a target ally or a target enemy for up to 5 seconds. Affected allies gain bonus movement speed while affected enemies are slowed and take magic damage. Any champion, whether ally or enemy, who walks through the tether is granted the same movement speed modifier for 3 seconds. When W was empowered with Mantra it granted twice its movement speed modifier.

What they reworked it into:

Karma forms a tether between her and the target enemy champion or monster, dealing them magic damage and granting true sight of them for the duration. If the target does not break the tether by moving out of range, it deals them magic damage and they are rooted for a short time. When the ability is empowered it heals Karma for 20% (+ 1% per 100 AP) missing health upon being cast and once more rooting the target, with the root duration increased.


Karma's E and Mantra E:

Karma's old E shielded herself or the target ally for 5 seconds. Her Mantra E sent forth a burst of energy, dealing magic damage to enemy units around her target.

What they reworked it into:

Karma shields the target allied champion or herself for 4 seconds, granting them bonus movement speed for 1.5 seconds. Inspire overflows with energy, increasing the target's shield, shielding all allied champions near them for 50% of the total amount, and granting them the same bonus movement speed.


Karma's fans:

Karma sported fans as a weapon in the previous iteration of her. It was something unique to her that almost everyone loved.

What they did to her fans:

The Developers removed them and added them to her dance, as an homage to her being able to wield fans. The reasoning they did it is below.

> Yes, we did add them in, on all her skins. Yes, as some of you have guessed, it is only on her Dance. We wanted to give you guys an homage to the fans, as they were a key element to her in the past. > > We did initially remove the fans, as Morello quipped in the Leak thread. We weren't fully prepared for how fond of them some of you were; which is a point we've heard loud and clear, and will be discussing further in-depth for future Relaunches and Visual Upgrades.
> Allow me to jump into the fray here for a second. On our champions, especially older ones, we have very iconic elements. Things that when you think of the champion, you can't help but think of. This can go one way or another, either good or bad, weak or strong.

The take away here for and from Karma is that we should scrutinize core elements more. This doesn't mean we'll necessarily keep them all, but perhaps if we do wind up in a similar situation, we'll keep some kind of reference in. For the fans, as I said, we added them back in as an homage, for those fond of them. We really wanted to push the Mantle of Decorum, and her Mantra style gameplay. And who knows? Maybe this will open the space for another fan champion to blow us all away? >


What can we take away from this visual game update? Riot placed Developers in charge of Karma's visual game update that did not care about Karma. These Developers did not care about her presence as a battlemage, they did not care about her fans, they did not care about the elements of her kit that made Karma.

You knowingly admitted to turning her into a full-fledged support and said that players played her a lot more in lane as a mid and top laner, like Morgana.

> Originally envisioned as a support, Karma’s fringe successes actually came from players using her in the top or mid lanes as an AP burst mage with support abilities, much like Zilean or Morgana. We like this direction and want to encourage you to boost both her offensive and support abilities by building AP. We also want to make sure she can hold her own as a solo or with a lane partner. > > Finally, we’ve updated her skills so allies are reliant on Karma, but Karma’s not reliant on them. She’s got enough power at her fingertips to feel strong as a mage or as a support without teammates having to work in perfect concert for you to be effective."

If she was played more in mid and top lane as a mage with some abilities that could be used on allies, why did you go out of your way to remove everything that made her a mage? You turned her into a mess and changed her E and E+R into a shield that granted a speed boost and a mass shield that granted a speed boost to allies. Then what you did below and further encouraged her playstyle to be an Enchanter and no longer a mage:

On May 13th, 2015 the Live Game Update Team did this:

> Defiance (Mantra + E) > No longer deals damage > Now increases target's shield by 30/90/150/210 (+.3 AP) > Aoe Shield amount is now 50% of primary target's shield amount from 30/70/110/150

You also did this and created the toxicity that is tank Karma:

> Renewal (Mantra + W) > Reworked - both healing and bonus damage removed. > Now debuffs target for duration of tether + root. > All damage dealt to target is increased by 10% (excludes true damage) > All damage dealt to target heals Karma for 20% of the damage dealt > If the damage source is a champion on Karma's team (excluding Karma) they are also healed for 20% of damage dealt

Instead of rectifying mistakes made in the past four years Riot has the following excuses:

  1. There are champions in a far worse spot than Karma.
  2. The visual game update was done at a time when we did not have the proper technology to do it right.
  3. No one internally is actively communicating about Karma right now.
  4. Karma is in a great spot right now as a champion and support.

You don't care Riot Games. Your Balance and Update and Live Game Update team had the past 4 years to rectify mistakes made by your Developers that worked on her original VGU in 2013. The Live Game Update team had 2 years to rectify mistakes they made with turning Karma into a full-fledged support and overbuffing it with a movement speed boost, AP ratios, and shielding everyone. Stop using excuses to justify a lazy rework and no positive work done on her to restore Karma to what she used to be.


The future does not look good for Karma. The direction Riot Games is taking Karma is not something supported by the Karma community. We do not want a shield bot that sits in the back, presses one button the entire game, have almost no presence as a mage and damage that falls off after level 6, a build path that leads her to only be useful building shield enhancing items, conflicting gameplay within her kit that makes her come off as a poke mage because of her passive, and much more.

If the work you have done on Karma the past 4 years was at all positive and good for her, Karma fans and players would not be creating threads and commenting on posts for the past 4 years asking for you to restore her to her former glory. If you cannot be bothered to communicate about her and understand how you shifted an entire gameplay, identity, and beloved champion into a shield bot, pure support, bland champion, and one of the most horrible reworks in League of Legends history . . . . . then you are delusional and do not care. Karma is not in a good spot right now. She never had the chance in the past 4 years to be in a good spot because all you have done since 2013 and her Visual Game Update is take everything away from her.


To new players that want to know who old Karma used to be and why we are so fussy about Riot's treatment towards her:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clMEu39Iydc

As always stay frosty.

  • Hiemal

12 Comments

SilverSquid10 votes

Yes, we did add them in, on all her skins. Yes, as some of you have guessed, it is only on her Dance. We wanted to give you guys an homage to the fans, as they were a key element to her in the past.

We did initially remove the fans, as Morello quipped in the Leak thread. We weren't fully prepared for how fond of them some of you were; which is a point we've heard loud and clear, and will be discussing further in-depth for future Relaunches and Visual Upgrades. Allow me to jump into the fray here for a second. On our champions, especially older ones, we have very iconic elements. Things that when you think of the champion, you can't help but think of. This can go one way or another, either good or bad, weak or strong.

This feels so.... stupid. They straight up admit that they didn't ask what people loved about her visuals and that they failed to preserve her. But their reaction to it feels like "well, we fucked up, let's do it better on the next champion, sorry we ruined your main :) "

It's one of the reasons Karma feels like a failed experiment. Yes, Riot might have learned some useful lessons by that rework of hers, but then deciding to just leave her the way she is feels incredibly careless. They didn't even know why people liked her. That's the reason. That's exactly the reason, why Karma is a decent champion now but a really bad Karma, that feels lackluster. Why she is a good champion, but a horrible rework. They didn't care to ask first and they didn't care to cuddle with us after they fucked us (and that falls onto something between rude and rape, I guess).

The worts part; They did it again, 2 years later, when removing her shieldbomb. It's like they didn't learn at all. But hey, she is fine guys, she has seen play in LCS, haha.

Jesus.

PS: The RW changes you quoted are from her PBE before 5.10 hit and weren't the final changes. The damage increase/teamheal would've been actually interesting and somewhat thematic, whereas that CC increase is just missplaced and boring....

Sire Hippington8 votes

Karma is a decent champion now but a really bad Karma

very well put*[slayer-pantheon-thumbs]*

It's not like current karma is in a bad spot or so, the issue is just that she simply isn't karma. Outside of the name, she basically has nothing in common with the fan wielding awsomeness of the past.

Ulquiorra9955 votes

Shieldbomb removal was the biggest middle finger they could've given to Karma players. It basically said "Fuck you, we are removing the last thing remaining from old Karma as well as her most iconic ability. That should show you just how much we care and exposes other things we said to placate you as blatant lies."

Sire Hippington9 votes

God, the nostalgia...all those sweet memories on the glorious early days of league. The items, the masteries, and the wonderfull champ that karma once was....damn, i really wish we had a retro mode that puts us back to S2.

Hinagiku334 votes

If there was a "Season 2" server I don't think I'd play the modern game much at all.

I miss when Karma was a classy lady that could Shield-Bomb people that disrespected her damage output. Also back when her name actually made sense...

ZapMyHeart4 votes

Funny how an excuse for keeping this Karma version is because she saw LCS play.

Old Karma did show up official tournaments and Riot still decided to nerf her into a support: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WsWUaLzKKpA

Ulquiorra9954 votes

Not to mention that they managed to remove any decision making Karma's kit contained since her rework, making her even more bland and boring to play as. You are playing as a mage? RQ 99% of the time. You are a support? You won't use any mantra outside E after laning ends. Going for tank Karma? Use any mantra other than W and you are discarding the only thing that makes her good.

Yes, I know we are beating a dead horse here - but when you fuck up a rework so badly that people still complain about it 4 years later then maybe - just maybe - you could actually working on fixing that mistake. There isn't a single aspect of Karma which got changed in a positive way. Let's see:

Preserving what people loved about the champion - Fail. Fail. Fail. From visual standpoint, her fans. In terms of gameplay, shieldbomb - her goddamn signature ability moved AFTER the rework, no less. I guess someone at Riot was like "hey look, there is an aspect of old Karma we forgot to delete" and they went on fixing that mistake. For comparison, imagine if they removed knockback from Lee's ultimate in exchange for raw number buffs. That's the level of bullshit we are dealing here.

Theme - Horrible fail. Any duality she had is gone. And you just have to love how they had to remove her most iconic ability AND the last remnant of that aspect post rework, as mentioned above. Nothing could scream "Fuck you Karma players, we don't care about you. Go play Lee or something instead." louder than that.

Improving gameplay experience - Fail. New Karma is boring as hell to play with zero decision making involved, while simultaneously being much worse to face than old Karma, from support Karma giving a massive shield and boost with a simple press of a button to tank Karma... just tank Karma.

And don't give me "she already got reworked bullshit" while we are sitting on 4th iteration of Ryze, 3rd version of Katarina and more.

Sexy Jack Rabbit4 votes

Karma's rework is an example of Riot's massive incompetence both 4 years earlier, and today. After 4 years and hundreds of text posts, Riot has never addressed Karma's rework. I don't know if it's just ignorance or laziness?

Pisces StarChild2 votes

Personally, I hope that they'll revisit her theme and character concept again in the future. While it may have looked and sounded good on paper, the mantle of decorum just feels and looks out of place in game. It never really translated nor did it add to Karma's fantasy of a "spiritual leader" that Riot has pegged her to be. Instead, it looks like this huge burden of an object she has to drag across the map for no reason other than clarity for her ult being available or not. That brings me to posing this question; is Karma's spirit fire/energy a resource inherently acquired through her willpower, through years of practice with her elders? Or is it something that she actually requires summoning, drawing from a source say the mantle itself? I ask that only because I'm trying to make sense of why she has to carry that backdrop with her. Based on her present and current lore, it seems like she herself is innately blessed with the ability to summoning her "powers/abilities", that which I am thankful for. It gives her an interesting dynamic to her otherwise "just another human in the game" character.

So why did Riot chose to have her carry the mantle again? Another argument that can be presented based on lore and previous discussions is that Karma is a leader. Therefore, she carries the mantle of decorum as a symbol of her status and rank. Now, I would've been fine with that if the execution of the mantle was done right. Previously, her old concept and model had her carrying it just perfect. It was closely attached to her dress making it look like a part of her elaborate dress set, complimenting her entire appeal/outfit. It made it look like it belonged (that this is how Ionian Royalty looks like) and just how she carried it back then (through her beautiful and detailed animations) evoked that majestic feel we ought to have felt when we saw Karma on the battlefield. Now it's just an animated object that she somehow magically carries (or drag) around with her. I get that we have to suspend our disbelief when it comes to some of the "fantasy" aspects of this game but even some of them just don't completely make sense even in the context of the game. Also, Karma is not THE leader of Ionia. She's one of the many figureheads of this beautiful nation. So why is she carrying the mantle of decorum? Does this mean that every other leader are carrying the same object behind them? I personally would like to see it go. It's such a distraction to her beautiful model and serve no purpose other than it being a neon sign telling other players that her ult is available for use.

I hope that they'll bring back her fans for it was one of the iconic things about her that people have associated with this champion. It also had a purpose, both as a weapon for her and an object of value. The fans served as a reminder of the time she decided to take action against the invasion of Noxus, that she will no longer will sit idle as her people suffers. It also is an item of sentimental value, being something from her humble background, from her parent's antique shop. These little details gave so much character to Karma as a champion and made her more relatable to her fans. She wasn't someone who was battle oriented but she chose to rise up and defend her nation with whatever talents and means she had. She is a leader who came from a not so entitled background but she overcame the odds and is now our fame Duchess. In her present state, the fans can be used as weapons that she can channel her spirit fire on to produce more focused versions of her abilities, similar to how wizards rely on their wands for their magic. Currently, the combined visuals of the mantle and her producing energy (Hadoukens? :P) through her hands contradicts each other with the themes they are trying to present. The energy she uses in game makes her appear to be a monk of some sort like Lee-Sin, but the mantle just being there behind her makes her look somewhat of a fighter/Tank since the only other champions with objects behind them are Taric, Irelia, and Jarvan, and all of them can initiate and be front and center. I'm aware that she can tank, but she does it differently compared to those three.

TL:DR Bring back her fans for they actually served a purpose. Disassemble the mantle or leave it in that sacred room where Ionia houses their emblems.

As far as the discussion for her kit goes, I'll leave that entirely up to Riot as well. With the lack of discussion from them, I'm thinking Karma's current kit is Riot's intention of what Karma's niche is all along. Keep up the good fight though. I hope they'll eventually be open to discussing that as well.

SilverSquid4 votes

Erm, I don't know if you are aware of this, but the Mantle of Decorum should be an honorable symbol carried by valued members of the society. Irelia has one of them for a reason too. I am not too much of a visual guy, so this is probably all I can say about that.

I hope that they'll bring back her fans for it was one of the iconic things about her that people have associated with this champion.

It felt so disingenious, when they said "For the fans, as I said, we added them back in as an homage, for those fond of them. We really wanted to push the Mantle of Decorum, and her Mantra style gameplay. And who knows? Maybe this will open the space for another fan champion to blow us all away?", which basically translates to "We ruined her, but we will be sure to salvage the good parts for other champions", like they did with her shieldbomb Ivern , lvl6 abilities Jayce and duality theme Kindred .

With the lack of discussion from them, I'm thinking Karma's current kit is Riot's intention of what Karma's niche is all along.

This is confusing. I mean, sure they apparrantly want Karma to be this enchanter that can occasionally build AP, that provides strong early game poke and some team AoE shielding and speed for teamfights in lategame. But this just convinces me, that they forgot Sona exists, because that's exactly what she does.

Why do they push her into a role that's already taken?

h5LYF41Lam1 votes

i still play ap karma support even though my team goes mad.

More from Gameplay

More by Winterkill