So there's a little too much whining about Yasuo

chipndip1··9 votes·1,178 views

Seeing how I usually find myself on the outside of the hivemind, and the hivemind is currently buzzing about Yasuo, I'm gonna use this thread to tip my fedora a bit and sort of set a few things straight the best I can. Post is longer than I thought it'd be, so tl;dr at the bottom.

Yasuo's "unlimited mobility" and non-existent cds: Not a problem. Yasuo's kit is designed to supplement his AAs, not to literally beat someone 5 feet into the grave like, say, a Lux's combo would. The E keeps him in the fight as long as he's on offense, and the Q...is a fucking stab. Like, why are we complaining about the Q? It's basically "Yasuo's other AA" at this point. I mean, I guess it stacks his tornado, but...he's gotta use 2 Q's before he gets a tornado, so what's the issue? Anywho, the point here is that one move is just a stacking mechanic for his knock-up, which is important to his kit, and the other move is offense-only mobility. It isn't like Fiora, Riven, Jax, Trynd, or Ekko, all being other skirmishers that can use their mobility option to just jet over a wall, and it isn't like GP who eats a damn fruit and walks out of RUNE PRISON. It's only offense, and its cd is based more so on his possible targets than the move itself. Use it wrong and you're screwed one way or another. It's ultimately not a problem.

Yasuo's stupid wind wall + shield: I mean, I relate this to Blitzcrank when I say "It's not literally op, but it's pretty freaking annoying". Like, that's the gist of it here. Mid Yasuo's actually pretty tame since he still builds carry builds, so that's statistical evidence that Yas's Wind Wall and shield aren't the freelo they're made out to be on their own. Yea, it makes fighting him on a mage sort of icky, but note that this dude's early game is vulnerable beyond belief without these things, and even with them, a little jg pressure solves it.

Yasuo's ult is always up: In LoL, I like to think ults come in 3 variations between "a shit ton of damage", "utility/tricks", and "basically the rest of my shit". Yasuo's ult pretty much chalks up to being the 3rd option, similar to champs like Blitzcrank or Kog'Maw, although for Yasuo it's a bit more crucial. It's basically the core pillar of Yasuo's game play in later-game phases. Without his ult, Yasuo's gonna have a hard time being useful...period. His entire kit's woven together so that each piece needs all the other pieces as they are to even make Yasuo a complete and coherent champion in this game, let alone a good one. If anything, it's testament to his design as a champ being pretty damn good.

Fuck this shit Yasuo's just op and dude wtf why are you defending him: He's only op if he gets rolling. Same thing with MasterYi Gangplank Riven Tryndamere Fiora ...basically every skirmisher save Ekko. And why is that? Reason one being because that's how LoL is in the sense that anyone can be op if they get fed. Reason two being because skirmishers, as I've been saying in threads past, are just melee-form adcs. If you let the enemy marksman get fed, what happens? They light your whole block up and peel out like it's "Boyz in the Hood" all over again. When you see a skirmisher, think of "Boyz in the Hood Wit Swordz". If they get fed, they'll be very up-close and personal as they run you down just as hard as a fed adc might, if not worse, because that's their reward for being fed carries (GP is a Battle Mage, yea, but he's part Skirmisher too so he counts) + they get even more kill power because they don't get the protection of range. Simple enough, right?

tl;dr here: Yasuo's problem is that he's a carry that's currently getting away with building tank. All this whining about mobility, cds, shields, walls...all that shit is unnecessary salty whining. Wasn't an issue before and it won't be when they nerf Top-suo. If this whining persists, please consult the nearest salt gif.

14 Comments

Calabok2 votes

i AGREE NERF YASUO

Brutalitops012 votes

Really, his biggest problem right now is that Riot's mass bug fix in the last patch + a bug that exists now are making a high skill cap champion who should have a 48% win rate at most have a 55% win rate.

I fully agree that the tank build is also a huge problem, but before the bug fixes and this new bug, which makes his ultimate give him a free basic attack as he drops from it ~70% of the time, he still didn't really break 50% win rate, and Riot was doing a good job nerfing him down so that the tank build was less viable. Why he's so good right now is a combination between tank build, bug fixes, and an existing bug that's giving him damage that shouldn't be where it is, and they're nerfing the tank build hard next patch by making him have to critically strike to get his 50% bonus armor penetration. This right here is, in and of itself, probably enough to get rid of tank build Yasuo because now he HAS to build crit to use the extra damage from his ultimate.

chipndip11 votes

Just cause Yasuo's a higher skill cap champ doesn't mean he has to have a 48% win rate. As long as he isn't straying too far above 50%, I'd say it's more important to look at his "winrate/games played" stat instead of his general win rate stat.

Outside of that, yea, this whole post in a nutshell: Once Top-suo is nerfed, pls stop whining about Yasuo.

CppL1 votes

{quoted}

Just cause Yasuo's a higher skill cap champ doesn't mean he has to have a 48% win rate. As long as he isn't straying too far above 50%, I'd say it's more important to look at his "winrate/games played" stat instead of his general win rate stat.

Outside of that, yea, this whole post in a nutshell: Once Top-suo is nerfed, pls stop whining about Yasuo.

I dont think thats gonna happen.His is kit is very unfun to play against.

chipndip11 votes

I mean, obviously the whining will continue, but that doesn't mean it isn't the right answer.

Besides, there's not many kits in LoL that aren't some form of unfun to play against unless it's someone that's REALLY vulnerable and doesn't do something that can be deemed "annoying". Just gotta deal with it.

james1212341 votes

Everytime I look at someones yasuo stats they are a feeder/lose every game so Idk why people are even complaining about a champion unless they are mad that they get it on their team like I do.

IzzŸ1 votes

I agree with a lot of what you said, but when you compare wind wall to braums shield it just doesnt make any sense to me. I could maybe understand an ability like Genji's deflect but the fact that he block things for his whole team late game is a really big problem to me. I really don't like his shield either - I understand why it's necessary to make his early game not useless, but it's up way too often and blocks way too much damage imo.

It just feels like for an aggressive assassin like champion he has too many defensive tools, coupled with double crit chance for free - with a way to crit AOE and at range (EQ and Q3) it just feels very very overloaded. I love Yasuo, I think his kit and playstyle are really fun and in the right hands (certainly not mine) powerful enough to be impactful and yet as long as you don't allow him to get too far ahead he's not too overbearing - and there's my problem. Yasuo's defensive tools are designed to help him survive in lane but they honestly are too powerful coupled with his offensive abilities. I think he needs to see some small nerfs to his Passive shield and W but I wouldn't remove them altogether as I see a few people begging for.

Along with that, Riot has had a huuuuge problem this season with the combination of tankiness and damage. The introduction of items like item 3742item 3748 and item 3053 coupled with Grasp and older items such as item 3068 and item 3025 have made certain champions with high base damages (FizzFizz , AkaliAkali , EkkoEkko , etc.) who are designed to be assassins with high mobility and outplay potential become completely overbearing as tanky bruisers. Yasuo is a symptom of that and it's Riot's decisions RE: Juggernauts that set us up for this meta. Honestly it just shows that these champions had too many ways to abuse defensive tools and too much damage inherent in their kit.

The whole meta right now in both Top and ADC is creative reimaginings of champions with items that were never designed for them - we see it in bot lane with item 3142 on Lucian and Jhin among others. I don't know what riot can do to balance the changes but I can almost see certain items becoming gated behind something in a champions kit - such as Hydra and Hurricane being gated behind attack range as they are now. They've talked about making Youmuu's melee only as well but I don't think Riot will do that. I don't know what can be done for top lane either other than slowly nerfing the outliers as and when they occur, because nerfing the items just ruins them for people who need them.

tl;dr Tank Yasuo is a symptom of League's current tank w/ damage problem. He still needs the nerfs he's getting.

chipndip11 votes

{quoted}

I agree with a lot of what you said, but when you compare wind wall to braums shield it just doesnt make any sense to me. I could maybe understand an ability like Genji's deflect but the fact that he block things for his whole team late game is a really big problem to me. I really don't like his shield either - I understand why it's necessary to make his early game not useless, but it's up way too often and blocks way too much damage imo.

Well, the issue with comparing Wind Wall to Braum's Wall is that Braum's wall nullifies any and all damage once, then greatly reduces the remainder of any and all damage while he drags the wall around. Wind Wall stays relatively in one spot and only works on projectiles. As for Yasuo's shield, note that most skirmishers have some bullshit defensive options when you think about it. Like, really think about the other skirmishers and how they defend themselves from death, and you'll realize Yasuo's more in the middle ground in terms of bs.

Like, seriously, eat an orange = walk right on out of FREAKING RUNE PRISON?

It just feels like for an aggressive assassin like champion he has too many defensive tools, coupled with double crit chance for free - with a way to crit AOE and at range (EQ and Q3) it just feels very very overloaded. I love Yasuo, I think his kit and playstyle are really fun and in the right hands (certainly not mine) powerful enough to be impactful and yet as long as you don't allow him to get too far ahead he's not too overbearing - and there's my problem. Yasuo's defensive tools are designed to help him survive in lane but they honestly are too powerful coupled with his offensive abilities. I think he needs to see some small nerfs to his Passive shield and W but I wouldn't remove them altogether as I see a few people begging for.

  • I thought Yasuo's crits are weaker than normal crits? That isn't free.

  • I mean, as far as Yasuo seeming like an assassin goes, that doesn't really cover his play style, and I see people making that comparison a lot due to his ult flinging him to the back line and his dashes through enemies. Assassins make one strong rotation of moves and begin to want out. Yasuo can keep at it as long as he's life stealing, dodging key attacks, and landing his own. That's what skirmishers sort of do. They aren't good for long fights in the sense that they're squishy and melee, but for shorter engagements, they're great to get high and relatively consistent damage out quickly. Just think "riskier adc".

  • His defensive tools have been proven to be aight, honestly. Issue is that his defensive tools are now too strong due to him lasting longer when caught than he should. It isn't the shield and the wall more than it's him being kinda beefy with those finally out of the way due to him building a beefier build, which was way out of intention. The champ's gonna be way more tolerable in a bit...unless you just blatantly hate Yasuo.

IzzŸ1 votes

You're absolutely right about all of that. The thing that actually frustrates me most about GP is that he can cleanse Tahm Kenchs Devour (which has its own issues).

I have very mixed feelings about Yasuo but honestly you're probably right. My biggest problem in-game is that he tilts people very easily. I expect him to be much further in line post 6.18, and I can't wait for that.

And you're absolutely right - looking at the champions you've given as examples of skirmishers (Riven, Yi, Tryndamere etc.) DO all have similarly toxic if not worse defensive tools (Riven E, Yi Q/W, Tryndameres everything) and when you look at Yi Q and Tryndamere, a lot of their defensive tools can be used OFFENSIVELY which is just insane.

As I don't feel like you've really addressed it - how appropriate do you feel the nerfs he's getting are? Are they too small, too big, just right? Are they nerfing the right things? Really curious about your honest thoughts about these changes.

chipndip11 votes

I didn't really talk about the changes because there's not much to talk about outside of them being the right changes. Saying "Yasuo can't build defensive items ever" is just cruel and unusual, but saying "Yasuo can function perfectly fine without even dealing with his crit stat outside of buying damage reduction off of PD" is...yea...as we all can see. Nerfing him so his ult, which is extremely important to him since it allows him to fight tankier targets, by making it so that he needs his 100% crit to get past their armor was a great way to make sure he gets a more suitable core before stylizing his build with the latest meta trends. Honestly thought Riot would have done this to Ekko already...the other current skirmisher that builds a fighter/tank build with TriForce instead of what he should be building as an ap champion. -_-

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

Yasuo is designed from the ground up to counter many of the champions he lanes against. His nearly unlimited mobility allows him to dodge skillshots. His windwall blocks the majority of the abilities on nearly half his opponents. His shield without fail blocks a lot of whatever does manage to hit him. And to top it off he gets to build LS to heal back whatever damage he receives. Not to mention he has excellent wave clear, is manaless, and has a guaranteed ult (with high damage) whenever his opponents gets popped up by any source. All these things combined makes him unbearable for many champions to deal with. He may not be OP but he is a poorly designed pain in the ass. I'd say the bitching is justified.

chipndip11 votes

You're just listing all of his strengths without taking into context any of his weaknesses, how his strengths compare to other champions similar to him, or how any of his possible tools can be used poorly. You're literally just bitching.

Ruin Lance1 votes

well put. kind of gets old when people can't grasp the fact that the reason yasuo is so strong right now is not because "his kit is op" but rather, what he's building is making him too strong and also not the way he was meant to be played, and not to mention the bug that gives him extra damage.

LadyRenly1 votes

the "whining" is entirely justified.

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