I've been through this a few times on the boards, but there doesn't seem to be a lot of good reasons for Ivern to build the jungle items, aside from the first starting item... and that is ONLY because of the bonus experience.
Otherwise, ... there are so many other items that are better for him.
So, .. why not put the same passive (what is currently Monster Hunter) in his passive?
It obviously has to be the same name so that he can't gain double the benefit from it.
Norglics2 votesivern is a shit champ , imho riot forgot about it even exists :D
Warlord Rhinark2 votesI don't think this is a good idea, since that would make Ivern the only Jungler in the game that doesn't have to build a Jungle item, and it would make him the only champion in the game to have a passive that's exactly the same as an item.
Instead, I think the Jungle items should be tweaked to work slightly differently on him.
:
+10% life steal vs. monsters
UNIQUE – NAIL: Basic attacks against monsters deal 35 bonus on-hit physical damage. NEW: Brushmaker enhanced basic attacks and Daisy basic attacks deal 25 bonus on-hit physical damage and gains 10% lifesteal towards enemy champions.
UNIQUE – MONSTER HUNTER: Killing large or epic monsters grants +50 bonus experience, and gain +50 bonus experience for each level the monster is higher than you. The first large monster killed grants +120 bonus experience. If you have the highest minion kill score on your team, lane minion kills will grant 10 less gold. This penalty is removed upon completion of an enchantment on a Skirmisher's Sabre or Stalker's Blade.
:
UNIQUE – TOOTH: Damaging a monster by any means set it aflame, dealing an additional 60 magic damage over 5 seconds while causing you to restore 6 health per second for every enemy you're burning. NEW: Freeing a Jungle camp heals you for 25 health per monster freed over 5 seconds. While in the jungle or river, regenerate 0 - 8 (based on missing mana) mana per second.
UNIQUE – MONSTER HUNTER: Killing large or epic monsters grants +50 bonus experience, and gain +50 bonus experience for each level the monster is higher than you. The first large monster killed grants +120 bonus experience. If you have the highest minion kill score on your team, lane minion kills will grant 10 less gold. This penalty is removed upon completion of an enchantment on a Skirmisher's Sabre or Stalker's Blade.
Elite4Runner2 votesThen he would be the only champion in the game that has a bonus effect from an item that applies only to him lol.
The value of these items are so important on every other champion who's role is jungle, or even those who attempt to be played in the jungle OTHER THAN HIM. However, the value of this bonus experience is still so important that he gains pretty much no other benefit from them, and still needs them.
He is absolutely a unique champion, and in order to exist as he does, he absolutely requires exception.
Warlord Rhinark1 votesThen he would be the only champion in the game that has a bonus effect from an item that applies only to him lol.
I'd much rather have him be forced to build something and then get bonus effects for it, than him just getting the effects of the item for free.
The value of these items are so important on every other champion who's role is jungle, or even those who attempt to be played in the jungle OTHER THAN HIM. However, the value of this bonus experience is still so important that he gains pretty much no other benefit from them, and still needs them.
Which is why I suggested what I suggested.
He is absolutely a unique champion, and in order to exist as he does, he absolutely requires exception.
And the exception is bonus effects on the items.
Elite4Runner1 votesHow about this, .. Add Monster Hunter to Hunter's Potion?
Warlord Rhinark1 votesHow about this, .. Add Monster Hunter to Hunter's Potion?
I don't like it.
He gets bonus exp AND sustain for less gold than other Junglers, Hunter's Potion completely negates the health and mana cost on his passive and he doesn't have to sacrifice exp for it.
Elite4Runner1 votesBut otherwise he is wasting gold on stats that he doesn't use.
This way he still has to spend more gold in order to get the same bonus exp, and can gain full effect from the item.
And, it would work for other junglers as well. They would trading bonus damage for better sustain.
It is a much simpler solution than the other suggestions between the two of us.
Warlord Rhinark2 votesBut otherwise he is wasting gold on stats that he doesn't use.
He's not wasting the gold, he still gets the item effects against Dragon, Rift Herald and Baron.
In fact, he gets more than everyone else does for the same amount of gold.
This way he still has to spend more gold in order to get the same bonus exp, and can gain full effect from the item.
And the health and mana cost on his passive would be meaningless.
And, it would work for other junglers as well. They would trading bonus damage for better sustain.
Except it would slow down jungle clear speed by a large margin.
Whether you deal more damage, meaning you kill the jungle monster faster, or you have lots of sustain, meaning you can heal through the monster's damage, the result is the same.
Except, the former is much faster than the latter.
Even if this change was implemented, I don't think you'd see anyone picking Hunter's Potion first item over Hunter's Machete/Talisman, because it would slow down their clear too much and it wouldn't build into any completed Jungle items.
It is a much simpler solution than the other suggestions between the two of us.
Much simpler, perhaps, but it also causes more balance issues.
The simplest option isn't always the best one.
Daddy Ants1 votesThen he would be the only champion in the game that has a bonus effect from an item that applies only to him lol.
The value of these items are so important on every other champion who's role is jungle, or even those who attempt to be played in the jungle OTHER THAN HIM. However, the value of this bonus experience is still so important that he gains pretty much no other benefit from them, and still needs them.
He is absolutely a unique champion, and in order to exist as he does, he absolutely requires exception.
?
?
They also have items exclusive to them or items that modify their abilities.
Elite4Runner1 votesBut those are items that no other champion can acquire.
Ragnaveil2 votesI'd honestly tweak the grove function to be easier to take on your camps (IE Less cost and faster growth), and how long it is currently against enemy camps (Not exactly, but close.) The issue with his passive is the fact ALL camps take longer to kill than a tank jg that has little to no clear. The only time it actually works fast enough is level 13. With those factors in mind, he becomes the easiest jg to steal camps from. And in this meta, you become a dead, useless ball of health and gold if you get counterjungled to death. Kinda unacceptable in terms of him being a jungle champ.
So to show how it would work, here's some numbers ripped straight from the wiki that takes these numbers from the game:
My idea of fixing it would be this:
Dunno how good this sounds, but I feel pretty good about it.