Can we stop abusing that line please? It's actually irritating to read now, especially because people just throw it around to emphasize how much they dislike a champ, rather than using it when a champ ACTUALLY has little counter-play.
Big Lincoln44 voteseverything is toxic no counterplay and needs a full VGU
boards 2017
chipndip19 votesEven things that already had VGUs last year need VGUs.
Big Lincoln14 voteseven future VGUs need VGUs
Linna Excel8 votesCan we get a VGU for the two new champs on the PBE?
Ariel the Cruel7 votesThey have to stand behind Ryze's next 3.
AMYS GRAVE2 votesand all VGUs have been failures
Joseraph21 votes
say hi.
AMYS GRAVE1 voteskappa...
Joseraph4 votesWhat do you have against Poppy Sion Warwick and Fiora? They all much more healthy and fun to play/play against than their predated counterparts
AirKingNeo1 votesFiora
Healthy
Fun to play against
God I wish I had an emote to describe how wrong this is. Let me put it simply.
Free sustain, gapclosing, tank busting passive based on RNG. Q with little to no cooldown or mana cost. W that negates opponents building offensively against her or from using CC on her. Nearly oneshots anyone, including tanks, using her Ultimate. Also gives a giant AoE heal. Has no feasible way to be counter-built.
Anidan6 votesThis is opposed to the Fiora of before that went 0/11/2 and was completely useless or went 20/0/4 and you couldn't stop her.
Joseraph3 votesFiora pre-rework was a gapclosing monster that had an ult that could take just about anything down to half health alone if she wasn't too far behind, with no counterplay if the target didn't have Zhonya. Old Fiora was MUCH harder to play against, and therefore, my point is still valid. Fiora isn't even innately that overpowered, she's just overtuned right now. Frozen Heart, Randuin's, Executioner's Calling and Ninja Tabi delay her damage output and healing, and she pops like a balloon when locked down. Just don't throw all your team's CC into her riposte at once, and you should be fine.
Tormentula3 votes Yea
maybe....
took awhile to get used to
fuck no
chipndip114 votesPoppy is 10 times healthier than her old iteration. She's actually allowed to have a niche now...and she's allowed to be good at things now.
Whut Thuh 3 votesalright poppy had a niche, it was a small one, but it was there. new poppy is not "niche" its silly and can be played into any matchup with or against any team comp. and poppy's win conditions are simple. bully the lane, farm your ass off. snowball like a truck into skirmishes and then win the game. yea you can do cool stuff with her ult. but its usually press r if winning hold r if losing
chipndip14 votesOld Poppy: Was so cancerous that Riot left her almost unplayable for years.
New Poppy: Designed to be relatively strong early on offense so she can get gold, then fall back into a warden play pattern during later stages of the game with her "return to base" ult, knock-back on E, dash-countering W, and slow on Q you can put down to slow advancing enemies.
Given Poppy's fall back pattern during mid/late game, Poppy's highly unlikely to carry games by herself, but she makes a strong asset to that end if she has a few competent team mates. Sure, Poppy was a bit too strong before, but she's perfectly fine when balanced well, so why throw a fit?
AirKingNeo1 votesFiora's rework is maybe healthy?
Look, just answer this question then. How do you counterbuild Fiora?
Anidan7 votesI'm no expert, but I imagine you'd build armor and HP, just like you would against Vayne. Is it as effective as it is against, say, other champions? No, but that's by design and can be tuned as necessary.
AirKingNeo3 votesExcept Fiora has massively more % HP true damage than Vayne, that also scales with AD, and comes in burstier amounts.
You can't outrun, out tank, out heal, or out damage a Fiora.
Anidan2 votes... out-tank, out-heal?
What are you even on, man? She is not a tank nor is she a healer. Just from this short little interaction I can tell you're pretty much as biased as the "DELETE LEE SIN" crowd, so I'm just going to leave it at that. I feel like even if someone did tell you how do something against Fiora, it wouldn't matter to you because it would somehow just reinforce your opinion.
AirKingNeo2 votesFirst of all, what I mean by out tank is build tank states in attempt to beat her 1v1, aka what the tanks do. This doesn't work.
Out heal? To put it simple, she heals too much. She's not even made to be a "draintank" and does more drain tanking than Aatrox once mid game begins.
Actually I think Lee Sin just needs a small base MS nerf, 10 more seconds of cooldown added to his ult at all ranks, and then maybe reduce his lifesteal/spellvamp but that would depend of how hard the former are as nerfs. Why delete him? He's a fantastic idea of "the playmaker" style character that really makes people want to play the game. He's hard to play, but it feels very rewarding.
If I'm bias then prove it. Heck, you could also try to disprove my logic. Seriously, just try to. How do you counterbuild Fiora effectively? If you can't put up, then don't get up in the first place.
Anidan3 votesYou know what? No, I'm not biting the bait on this one. I'm looking at this and if these are your justifications for "out-tank" and "out-heal" then my time is better spent elsewhere.
Before I go: to out-tank does NOT mean simply 1v1s. She is not a tank. Period. Full stop. Throw her into a teamfight and she will outright not live as long as a tank unless she built tank, but if she built tank then her damage isn't scary anymore. Tanks aren't known for their 1v1 prowess.
Out-heal: She has 1 way to receive mass healing, and that's to trigger her ult. For this the person who has received her ult has to die (preferably with 2-3 vitals popped) or she has to pop all 4 vitals--popping all 4 vitals on a target that isn't a potato and letting you do it is not easy, meaning she has to work for it. Aatrox on the other hand? He just hits you 3 times. Ever. They don't even have to be consecutive hits like Vayne, he just hits 3 times.
You're biased. You're blatantly biased. You're biased to the extent that this is the most time I'm going to afford you.
AirKingNeo1 votesSir, I have used fact after fact to rip your logic apart. The least you could do is actually admit defeat instead of acting pretentious.
Your disrespectfulness meets no bounds. You fail to prove anything and dare act like some almightly lord? Shame to you.
Whut Thuh 2 votesfact? the only fact i see is that you're a toplaner that has no fucking idea how to play against a fiora , so in your tiny, punitive little brain, shes unbeatable.
Whut Thuh 2 votescough crowd control cough burst cough kiting cough playing around your vitals cough not trying to be a frontliner when playing adc cough cough
AirKingNeo1 votesCC? Her W.
Burst? Out dranktanked/her W.
Kiting? Don't make me laugh, her Q.
Playing around vitals? Oh no so hard, only gains movement speed for hitting them and can be reset by walking in and out of range.
Frontline? What Fiora who knows a damn about the game would frontline? You wait for cooldowns to be down and then go in.
mrgiraffeweevil5 votesAll these things you mention are what makes her strong at 1v1s, which is what she is; a duelist. In team fights if the other team has 2 or more cc spells to use on you, your w isn't gonna save you. Her heal is only achieved by hitting vitals, which you can play around, and she only gets the movement speed when she hits vitals, which is what you want to try to stop her from hitting. Also, if you kite her q before it hits you, it has a relatively long cool down. She has counterplay, but you need to outplay her.
AirKingNeo1 votesFiora and Sion's VGU's are failures in balance.
Fiora, I shouldn't need to explain. Percent health true damage that scales with AD, and also her W effectively disabling her opponent.
Sion just lacks reliability, hence he's really outclassed.
macromite2 votession doesn't lack reliability as much as he is the only champion that truly tests the skill of his user.
you can't outrun a sion q easily if the user is good enough.
his e with proper mana managment is terrifying.
and his shield makes him a nightmare to duel so long as he knows how to time it right.
plus his ult when the user is skilled is not as limiting as it may seem.
I would say that sion is a near perfect example of what a champ in this game should look like when someone says that the champ needs high skill. not free low cooldown dashes or three hit passives. but abilities that are actually hard to hit at all when the person using the champion doesn't know the ins and outs of what the champion does.
koshkyra1 votes[{quoted}](name=Big Lincoln,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UbEgB5d8,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-04-13T16:51:07.984+0000)
even future VGUs need VGUs
Heard this abbreviation before but what does VGU stand for?
Joseraph1 votesVisual and Gameplay Update. Basically means full scale rework
koshkyra1 votesVisual and Gameplay Update. Basically means full scale rework
So it works in the sentence, "Leblancs VGU made me want a refund on her"?
Joseraph5 votesNo, as LeBlanc's rework wasn't full scale, it was part of a class rework, and her ability functions are still mostly the same.
However, if you said "Galio's VGU made me want a refund on him" you'd be correct, as Galio's was a full scale rework, where they changed just about everything about him
Ale non è male11 votesMagneto is decent against him, though, and Jean Grey completely wreck him
chipndip12 votesYou're a good man doing good things.
Tahminatrix 6 votes
W has no counterplay
Proceeds to get nerfed into only being played by mains and being yelled at for trolling when picked in solo queue ranked.
Which is funny, cause 
lantern is normally used in the same situations except it does not put thresh in danger and thresh`s kit While being able to combo with lantern is still very useful without his lantern c:
Thresh lantern has no counterplay oh wait you cc whoever is gonna click it, Tahm w has no counterplay? oh wait you just cc tahm`s slow ass.
Ariel the Cruel4 voteslantern is normally used in the same situations
Except Thresh lantern doesn't suddenly stasis you without warning or input. Tahm does. I'll take thresh lantern over Tahm any day, just because the Lantern isn't so damn jarring. (Side note: I hate Kalista's ult for the same reason.)
hresh lantern has no counterplay
Actually, Thresh lantern has a very low click priority. Standing or dropping a [pink] ward on it will make it ungrabable.
Pæan4 votesGameplay posts have no counter-play.
greekvandaL3 votesName me Vayne counterplay outside HER own fucking up.
I'll tell you there isnt any. She hovers your mouse over you and you die.
Scary Door1 votesPlay Caitlyn/Morgana bot into a Vayne.
She tries condem, you black shield Cait out ranges her, when Morg binds her, put a trap under her, boom... headshot. Win lane, gg ez.
Any other champions you're having trouble with?
SSJTribe6 votesI forgot that I can pick two champions
Scary Door2 votesSigh.
You play Caitlyn. Bam, done. I thought this was a team game though where you coordinate. My mistake.
I know, I forgot, this is the Boards where logic is downvoted and one-liners upvoted. Bravo.
About what I'd expect from a Silver 4 with a 40% win rate on Caitlyn.
SSJTribe2 votesIt was a joke man, chill. What's the point of bringing league into this? I only recently switched to bot so my win % isn't very good. Plus you're posting on a no-games smurf so you hardly have room to talk.
Baron of Bread2 votesCounterpick isn't counterplay.
charge attack3 votesIf you position properly she can't get your squishy members without putting herself in danger. So either she tries to single target DPS tanks while other ADCs can not only auto from a safer distance, but also hit more than 1 person. Like almost every ADC out team fights her. Just don't put yourself in a position where she can 1v1 you.
Also punish her in lane. With warlords being shit her lane phase is really bad again and she gets fked by meta picks.
Ariel the Cruel2 votes Has no counterplay.
XD
Glory ln Death8 votesStop talking! You're gonna get Riot to nerf him!
