For me it looks like Riotgames doesn't want any diversity. Now Pyke has to build as many lethality-items as possible, and it's EXTREMELY limited to how many items there are.
Every other champ can at least choose what items they want to buy, but if Pyke wants to get as good stats as possible, he gotta buy some specific items.
I may be wrong, but that's what I think
SnugglePuggle9412 votesTBH I don't know why they made a "support assassin" in the first place. We don't need that type of champion in the game.
Tomoe Gozen3 votesAnd who are you to say that "we" don't need a support assassin in the game? Maybe this isn't your cup of tea, Pyke is actually a pretty decent support and is popular enough to merit a unique support spot. Traditionally, AD supports don't exist since they need their own items to deal damage but Pyke works a bit differently and that's fine.
"We" didn't need support mages either and yet over the years, quite a few mages transitioned to being supports that focused more on dealing magic damage than healing/shielding people or tanking.
abca981 votes[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UaLZsGhi,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-10-27T21:19:27.326+0000)
And who are you to say that "we" don't need a support assassin in the game? Maybe this isn't your cup of tea, Pyke is actually a pretty decent support and is popular enough to merit a unique support spot. Traditionally, AD supports don't exist since they need their own items to deal damage but Pyke works a bit differently and that's fine.
"We" didn't need support mages either and yet over the years, quite a few mages transitioned to being supports that focused more on dealing magic damage than healing/shielding people or tanking.
I don't really miss 
blowing me up with just
. The fact that Riot let champions that supposedly need AP to do damage work as lane bullies is mind-blowing. And 
is there just to please that part of the community incapable of working as a team and that wants KILLS KILLS KILLS.
SnugglePuggle941 votesPyke is only decent at support if he has a good matchup but if he doesn't, he sucks balls. I had one as my support against a fucking Lucian Velkoz bot lane and he sucked. He's all offense with little to no defensive utility.
I've had better Pyke players taking him in actual laning like top and do better there.
We didn't need him at all.
HaIlMonitor2 votesAnd who are you to say that "we" don't need a_** support assassin**_ in the game?
Supports and Assassins are polar opposites, it simply doesn't make sense. But then again riot has gotten really weird with scaling in the game and now lane bullies are hyper carries so we can all just have our cake and eat it too.
Tomoe Gozen1 votesSupports and Assassins are polar opposites
No, they aren't. The only reason you believe that is because you only have assassin carries to compare him to. It's not about his role, it's about his kit that enables him to perform in a given role.
HaIlMonitor2 votesJust read the word support. The literal meaning.... He is the farthest from a support played in the role. Thresh is the closes champion to him, but is actually a support.
it's about his kit that enables him to perform in a given role
He is a scaling assassins, which is why he fits in support. But those are not supposed to go together.
Tahminatrix 1 votes
is the only true "support assassin"
(maybe blitz)
naut even less so
pyke is an assassin support
just like ap supports, more emphasis on the assassin or ap qualities.
Tobykachu3 votesBut currently Pyke has no versatility. The only way Pyke is able to be useful atm is if he builds tanky with aftershock and seeing as how Riot designed him to be an assassin that doesn't seem to make too much sense.
Automated Riven1 votesRemember before he came out and i, amount others, said that's what would happen with an assassin support. It just won't work.
Tomoe Gozen1 votesAnd he won't be able to build tanky after these changes because...? The difference between his changes now is that he has to build damage if he wants to do damage. His tank build never relied on his damage anyway, it was just a bonus to make him hard to even fight because he isn't as vulnerable as an assassin and yet his damage is comparable to one, where even as a support, he can 1v1 you, not die, run away and just regen his HP like a motherfucker and come back for more.
Tobykachu1 votesBecause there are very VERY few champions who have multiple viable build options. Simply put, the overwhelming majority of people will play the most effective style.
Tomoe Gozen1 votesThat doesn't mean the other styles (even if they're considered off-meta) aren't viable. AP Ez build is quite effective with his new kit (in my opinion) and yet, he's predominantly played as an AD carry.
Having an alternate playstyle and build doesn't automatically mean that you can go either way and still get the same value out of the champion's kit. Just imagine if i want to counter predominantly AP carries in the enemy team with a tank like Galio and then they simply switch to AD and the reason why i picked him disappears in the blink of an eye. That still doesn't mean Galio will be rendered useless but i picked him for the reason to have an easier time against AP damage.
Tobykachu1 votesThis is all very true in an ideal world, however when the sub optimal build suddenly becomes the best, and in most cases, actually rather powerful, Riot usually has to nerf it to keep the champion in line with how they're supposed to be played. Just look at how they removed AP Yi, tank Ekko and tank Fizz from the game. As for Pyke, an assassin who builds primarily tank obviously hasn't been integrated into the game in the way Riot intended.
Illabethe2 votesI don't understand it either and I hope it doesn't go through.
Especially with new rune system..... it's going to bury his viability.
There's a reason players went tank with him. He can't survive beyond Gold by consistently going Lethality. After 20 minutes he can literally do nothing on that build, but be dead weight.
Tomoe Gozen2 votesNot sure if you even played Pyke, if this is your reasoning. The whole point was that Pyke could build tanky and still have enough damage to obliterate people without actually being squishy enough to be taking a risk himself. Therefore, playing him full AD/lethality was a considerably riskier option because tanky AD builds were a lot safer to play with.
ZephyrDrake3 votes[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UaLZsGhi,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-10-27T21:21:50.794+0000)
Not sure if you even played Pyke, if this is your reasoning. The whole point was that Pyke could build tanky and still have enough damage to obliterate people without actually being squishy enough to be taking a risk himself. Therefore, playing him full AD/lethality was a considerably riskier option because tanky AD builds were a lot safer to play with.
and now Pyke is going to be a joke of as champion that is unable to do anything but blow up and be a free walking bag of gold for the enemy. Pyke got no extra HP from tank items. The only thing he got from them was resistances which according to boards do absolutely nothing at all. Now we will have an insanely feast of famine champion that would need to be stupidly overtuned in order to accomplish anything but whatever. I guess feast of famine is better than being mildly annoying to take down
Tomoe Gozen1 votesNo, he's actually going to have to build damage if he wants to have damage. Imagine that, huh. A damage champion scaling from damage? Unheard of.
Pyke's got a ton of utility for a support champion and on top of that, execute ult that goes through shields. "Feast or famine" doesn't apply to him, compared to his fellow assassins that don't have much utility. And he can share kill gold fully.
Z3Sleeper3 votesThat was supposed to be the tradeoff: Health for AD.
There is no reason to force him into building AD. Why even have that passive at all then?
Kazekiba1 votesThey dont want a return of tank Ekko or Akali. He's not supposed to buy ANY HP AT ALL even though Mallet giving 80 AD and Cleaver stacking sounds pretty efficient. What I dont understand is why his base HP is so huge. Of course Aftershock and tank items are going to be strong on a champ with 100+ base armor and 2300hp
Z3Sleeper1 votesThose champs actually had health and resistances. Pyke just has resistances. His base health is not higher than those 2 when built tank.
He isn't even tanky with full tank items. He still melts pretty fast. He only survives cuz of E and W. It's not like he's actively tanking anything.
Illabethe1 votesPyke has NEVER bought Frozen Mallet. That's a boards fiction of an item on him. There's just better buys.
Why his HP scaling is so high? Because he can't get it anywhere else. It's also misleading to make that claim: while leveling, he's ALWAYS behind same level champs other than adcs of the same level, because literally every other class has HP items. Even enchanters have higher HP than him while leveling up. Most assassins are about 2600 HP when built, and they get there before he does. Top laners run 3-4k HP. Supports generally get 1900-2100 HP by level 11-12. Mages build at least 2, if not 4 AP items, and easily get close to 3k HP.
You really need to go play the champ before voicing an opinion on him.
Tomoe Gozen1 votesNo one is forcing him to build AD. But if you want damage as Pyke, you're going to have to dip into AD itemization, not just skirt around the Bruiser items and get more benefits than other users because of his passive.
Illabethe1 votesyou do realize tank Pyke averages about 1/2 the damage or less of Assassin Pyke, right?
He has never been a damage champ. He has been a control champ. His entire job has been to set up kills for allies, or peel for them. Kill builds are fun, but they don't survive, and never have.
The change also hamstrings a TON of AD builds, btw.... like ones that start 
or 
.
It also makes 
..... a necessity in about 1/3 of games...... unatenable.
And I'm sorry: Zed, Talon, and Akali are ALL more mobile than Pyke, do more damage, and can escape far more encounters. Pyke's mobility is gated by substantial cooldowns, and he only has one use of them.
P.S. I suggest you look up my Pyke Mastery.
I have never built Pyke Electrocute or Aftershock. Yet I have 22/0/7, 24/7/7, 20/0/11 etc scores on him. Even in those games, I did about 5-10k less damage than the champs I was playing with. Pyke's kit just doesn't have massive AD scaling. He has a low base AD, and his skills have some of the weakest AD scaling in the game, and more importantly..... he doesn't multi hit (Talon/Zed/Akali ALL multi hit with skills, and almost their entire kits have damage associated with it)
ZephyrDrake1 votes[{quoted}](name=Tomoe Gozen,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UaLZsGhi,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2018-10-27T21:52:41.326+0000)
No, he's actually going to have to build damage if he wants to have damage. Imagine that, huh. A damage champion scaling from damage? Unheard of.
Pyke's got a ton of utility for a support champion and on top of that, execute ult that goes through shields. "Feast or famine" doesn't apply to him, compared to his fellow assassins that don't have much utility. And he can share kill gold fully.
so is he going to get an actual passive then? since what is the point of his passive now? he literally is forced to not build any HP items whatsoever now since he would need to get so much lethality in order to be useful so... why even have that passive at all then? He is a FEAST OR FAMINE champion. Every single other assassin can do everything he does but way better and without needing to do have people actually set them up for kills. Pyke does nothing on his own unlike every single other assassin.
Yes he has utility and then what? he is less mobile than every other assassin not named Eve and his utility is just ok for a support champion so... you have a champion whose utility doesn't really compare to most supports and whose assassin capabilities is severely gimped unlike other assassins. Now you are pigeonholing him into one build and only one since everything else now is going to be borderline trolling. Good job, he is just a worst champion now in every single way imaginable
Tomoe Gozen1 votesIf you suck at Pyke, that doesn't mean he's a shit tier champion. You're not exactly the standard everyone needs to look up to when performing as Pyke.
koochario1 votesidk what they should do but tank pyke is super annoying and imo a bit much
Illabethe1 votesHe's annoying because he's playing the only viable way. Lethality is what most players consider annoying, btw, but most lethality they tolerate because after a certain point in the game, he ceases to exist.
Ðeath XIII1 votesWhy do supports have support scaling?
Tomoe Gozen1 votesPyke has been able to build tanky and still kill people thanks to his scalings. The whole premise of a "support assassin" is that they have to build squishy to deal damage, not play tank and still kill fools left and right.
Kazekiba1 votesThat health bar and triple digit base armor says otherwise.
Aseraan1 votesHMMMMMM like we have seen this somewhere before an assasin building tank and still killing ppl thx for the damuss scaling he has........................hmmm who could have been it hmmm somthing something a fizz ekko etc......somethin.
Tomoe Gozen1 votesAnd when these builds emerged, Riot nerfed them hard. Hmmm... your argument is invalid since even in this instance, Riot wants to encourage damage Pyke to actually build damage, not become the tank of the bot lane and still perform as well as a squishy assassin.
Requiemsfire1 votesthey wanna discourage his slightly tankier support build in favour of a raw assassin like glass cannon
Aseraan1 votesWich talks for itself that riot likes this assasin clownfiesta....
ModAcademy Kayn1 votesOr the obvious dislike of Assassins that are also hard to kill still killing people too effeciently...
Tomoe Gozen1 votesNo, Riot's actually reducing his tankier Aftershock builds with damage, which makes him practically unkillable by normal means (trades) in the bot lane.
Vaandir1 votesThey want him to be played in competitive , in SoloQ hes amazing but in competitive hes useless .
In SoloQ its going to be a mess
ModKnightsKemplar1 votesWell... the problem is that Pyke is currently build Frozen Heart. I started playing him yesterday, and I found him really fun, but I found out real quick that not starting with FH was a bad idea.
When you have that much armor, you can actually go in and stay in. It actually makes him much more effective than building AD, to the point of being abusable. It's not really great for his overall game health.
Adding the lethality will reduce the diversity, sure, but it will also stop the FH rush on Pyke (hopefully), which will make him much less overbearing.
