Because I honestly see no difference between a late game Lucian/Draven chunking me down quickly and a Vayne or Twitch chunking me down quickly.
Not even in personality because both are either gritty serious or hammy as hell.
I'm sure there is a slight difference in damage. But imo at the end of the game: ADC damage is ADC damage.
PermabannedGaren4 votesBecause I honestly see no difference between a late game Lucian/Draven chunking me down quickly and a Vayne or Twitch chunking me down quickly.
Not even in personality because both are either gritty serious or hammy as hell.
I'm sure there is a slight difference in damage. But imo at the end of the game: ADC damage is ADC damage.
There are two late game ADC hypercarries in League: Vayne and Twitch.
The differences between them and Draven or Lucian should frankly be obvious.
Vayne is a hypercarry for a few reasons, one of which is deceptively huge: she doesn't need a last whisper item. She has so much built-in damage in her kit and such a strong tank-busting steroid that she just doesn't need it (Yasuo has a similar thing going on). See, the thing about LDR or MR is that the two items are actually hugely cost-inefficient, and pretty much serve the sole function of letting you remain a threat to tanks.
But see, Vayne doesn't need that item, so she can build much more cost-effective items to either improve her damage against non-tanks or, more ideally, to increase her survivability.
This is what most good Vaynes tended toward building, with some wiggle room (swapping one of the defense items for mercurial etc). It's less popular now that the burst build is meta, but even that build still tends to have a fair bit of survivability (bloodthirster offers more durability than blade of the ruined king, and she still tends to get a GA). Whereas a Draven or Lucian would have to actually cut into their DPS to get defense items, Vayne can still deal crazy damage late game despite not building full carry.
She's also really strong late game for the simple fact that a Vayne isn't so easily isolated and focused. If an enemy diver or assassin jumps on the average ADC and isn't peeled, the ADC usually dies. Vayne can kill most of those champions solo late game, due to her crazy dueling steroids, DPS, and her difficulty at pinning down in a 1v1 with her stealth.
Twitch is a different animal. He is a monster late game because, while most ADCs kill your team one by one, Twitch can melt your entire team in seconds if properly positioned. He needs to go full damage to be really effective, but an ult from his Q will destroy your squishies and melt the tanks soon afterwards. I think he's honestly stronger late game than Vayne. Vayne is a better duelist and outputs more single target DPS by virtue of stats and kit, but no ADC kills entire teams like Twitch does.
A big part of ADC scaling is safety, to be honest. Vayne is very hard to pin down late game, and Twitch has crazy range that lets him kill teams from far away. A Lucian can output good DPS late game, but is at significant risk when doing so. A Draven actually has the most DPS in the entire game, but there is probably not a single ADC as risky.
Compare to Ezreal, who is honestly safer than Vayne or Twitch, but just frankly deals less DPS. The same is true of Jhin, who also happens to be one of the worst ADC duelists.
Sexualsaurus4 votesLucian falls off late game because his short range and the fact that he is more burst orientated rather than just pure sustain damage, he sucks a killing tanks and needs a bit more time to dish out damage as he relies on abilities.
Draven hurts like hell even in late game but his axes can sometimes force him into positions that can be the deciding factor in a team fight and not to mention his passive becomes worthless later on. He still scales well but compare him to a twitch who has safer range and can make use of hurricane with piercing shots and vaynes ability to stealth and have true damage too, he just can't compete as well as them.
Every adc builds glass cannon so they will all hurt but due to their kits some will find themselves having issues killing tanks effectively in time and while also having that safety from assassins, divers etc.
Remlap12231 votesHuh?
HeeroTX3 votesIn the current META, "lane bullies" may as well be hyper carries because once you snowball its gg. Realistically, if it's a true "hypercarry" (ie. THEORETICALLY weak early) then if they actually GET to lategame mode, then that's on you and/or your team, the whole POINT of stopping a hyper carry is to shut them down early and the current META usually keeps them from scaling hard unless your team has failed miserably. (which is why they probably seem the same to you, in current META you either stomp or ARE stomped)
JavelinJoe2 votesTake Jinx and Cait, Jinx being the hyper and Cait being the bully. Jinx has shit tier early game damage compared to Cait. And Cait has a lot of zoning with her W. But, Jinx with 2-3 items is a lot stronger than Cait because Jinx scales harder throughout the late game where Cait just plateaus around mid-late game. Basically, Hypercarry means you should have a shit early game but an increasingly dominate mid-late game. A lane bully has overpowering early game but plateaus somewhere around mid-late game.
SchmidttyGames1 votes
is a lane bully. Perhaps the only true one of the current ADC's. Her superior range and her almost universally hated traps allow her great safety while she's punishing you.
is a hyper carry. While she won't do very much to harass you early on, in the late game she will rip you apart with 4+ items under her belt and there is very little you can do to stop her.
Ralanr1 votesOk. So what's the difference between them late game to a tank or anyone on the receiving end of their damage?
SchmidttyGames1 votesHyper-Carries generally scale so hard that they'll rip you to shreds no matter what you do, what you build, and how bulky you are. The Lane Bullies with amazing kits don't scale as well, but they can still be a pain if they are far enough ahead.
Ralanr1 votesSo, from a non-ADC perspective, I'm not seeing much of a difference in late game ADCs.
This might be way ADC lane bullies keep getting nerfed hard after buffs.
SchmidttyGames1 votesThere is a difference, but not much of one at full builds. Hyper Carries are the ones that can just absolutely explode at 2-4 items like Sivir/Twitch/Vayne. Honestly, most ADC's simply cancel each other out. The True Lane Bullies in the bottom lane are the Supports like Zyra who will thrash you almost instantly if you try to get near her. Similar to Caitlyn, you run extreme risk even trying to CS because they can pretty much erase you for it.
Edit: Lane Bully types also tend to "fall off", or become less dangerous as the game advances, where others become more dangerous.
Guyy Fieri1 votesOk. So what's the difference between them late game to a tank or anyone on the receiving end of their damage?
To a tank, nothing really. ADCs will you still kill you at about the same pace provided they are at the same build and skill level. The difference is that hyper carries (Twitch, Jinx, Vayne) have some mechanic that allows them to more easily carry a full build late game team fight than ADC like Lucian, Caitlyn or Draven.
For Twitch and Jinx it's all about AOE damage and resets on kills to help reposition in the fight. For Vayne it's, well it's Vayne.
For Lucian especially, if I'm a 6 item Lucian against a 6 item Jinx, it is so much harder for the Lucian to get the damage in simply because of how short ranged he is it becomes a lot more difficult to navigate fights than Jinx, especially if Jinx is actually getting some peel from her team.
Penns1 votesLane bullies usually have high early game dmg from spells/high range like Lucian/Cait or even Jhin. Hypercarries scale better with attack speed and have steroids like Twitch Q and ult or Vayne W and ult.
Ralanr1 votesOk, but do you notice much of a difference late game with six items as they fight you?
Penns1 votesI mean at 6 items adcs 2-3 shot me anyway but Id say a 6 item Lucian or Jhin definitely has less dps than a 6 item Vayne or Twitch.
Rebonack1 votesDue to the steroids they're packing Hyper Carries basically get a free extra item late in the game. Lane bullies lack the 'extra item' late game and make up for it with stronger spells to be more impactful early and mid.
Often times late game Marksmen don't deal that much more damage than lane bullies. Instead they have tools that allow them to better apply that damage reliably in a team fight. Kog and Twitch both have their range. Vayne has her stealth and target agnostic damage for melting front lines. Cait has her zone control for chunking people. And so on and so forth.
If a champ like Ez or Lucy want to take full advantage of their damage, they have to get a fair bit closer. The only real exceptions to this rule are MF and Jhin on account of their respective ults.
Hauling Ashe1 votesLane bullies are more bursty damage oriented. With a good support, they can make your bot lane feed.
And hypercarries feed lane bullies.
As an ADC main, there is definitely a difference that I can tell. (Except with Graves. If you lane against an actual good Graves bot laner, he feels like he never falls off. ADCs and assassins get 2-shot by him either way.)
Miss Fortune, Draven, Lucian, and Caitlyn are exmples lane bullies. MF's Q and her ability to both slow you and speed herself up give her a lot of early game pressure. Draven is just oppressive no matter what, unless your jungler gives you a hand with him. Lucian's burst abilities and dashes help him take out enemy carries before they can make full rotations of their abilities. And Cait's zoning and headshot annoy players who aren't cautious, as you can tell by the threads on these boards. Late game, these champs have an obvious weakness in the fact that they really have to focus single targets. Sure, Cait has her traps, but these can often work against an overzealous Cait late game (Step on a trap while your mages are nearby, and watch Cait get deleted because she left her peel to get in headshot range.) These ADCs rely entirely on snowballing.
Hypercarries would be champs like Vayne, Jinx, Twitch, and maybe Ashe if peel exists in this world. Everyone is familiar with Vaynes who feed for 20 minutes and then win 1v3s. Twitch can just pump out damage like no one can right now. Jinx rockets on Runaan's give her range and AOE damage to top it off. It's harder for her to kill tanks than it is for Vayne and Twitch, but late game Jinx will delete your squishies. Ashe technically can hypercarry, but her DPS is just not on par with the others right now. If her frontline isn't there, she won't have time to even take out 25% of a full tank's HP. She needs about two rotations of her Q, and she simply won't have enough time to do that if she has no peel. Much like a quarterback in the NFL, though, If your team gives her enough time to do her thing, late game Ashe will score.
Both types of ADCs have their pluses and minuses. Right now, Ashe and Lucian have some of the worst winrates of champions overall. The reason Caitlyn is so great right now is more a fault of the 4-man bot snowball meta rather than being overpowered. If you've ever tried to solo carry a team with Caitlyn, it's just not happening.
GULAG 4 U1 votesDoesn't graves get 120 mr and armor from true grit? How do you oneshot that?
Hauling Ashe1 votesExactly.
Verdade1 votesIt's not "this ADC is bully, this one is hyperscaling". It's more like gradient.
**There are ADCs generally stronger in early game (damage comes from abilities with high AD scaling): **
These benefit GREATLY from early AD, as their abilities scale very well with AD. However, as you get more gold you won't get proportionally as much AD, so they fall off in late game. This is best explained on BF sword. BF is 40 AD for 1300 gold, however if you'll have 13000 gold you won't be able to get 400 AD for it, because you have limited amount of item slots and your AD suffers from additional (less useful) stats on big items. Armor penetration was really good stat here, as it was tied to items with large amounts of AD, further amplifying it, however as it was nerfed these ADCs aren't as big anymore.
Because they fall off, they usually transition into "hypercarry mode". They start to rely more on their autos to utilize stats given by items ( Varus goes for AS/crit etc.) Despite this transition, they end up weaker than true hypercarries in late-game.
Then there are mid-game ADCs (reliance on direct damage from items, focus on on-hit mechanics):
Take Ezreal for example. He builds tear (no damage increase) and boots, which is 1300 gold without damage any real damage increase. He's weak-ish early (but not as weak as hypercarries) but once he reaches Muramana and TF his damage explodes. After that it doesn't increase much, so his late-game outright sucks when compared to other ADCs. Again, these can transition to "hypercarry mode", Ezreal/Kog goes usually for AS, Corki for AS/Crit if needed, but they usually want some utility items over more raw damage.
**And finally there are late-game ADCs, also called hypercarries (strong auto-attack steroids, focus on AD multipliers such as AS and Crit): **
These guys are reliant on auto-attacks, which means they are reliant on items and levels (for their steroids). Damage is low at beginning and ramps up very quickly as they gain more and more AS/Crit. There aren't many champions that can match their DPS in late-game.
Only few ADCs have clearly defined strengths, for example 
However there are outliers that work very well at every stage of the game, such as 
GULAG 4 U1 votesCaitlyn's midgame isn't very good though, but I wouldn't say it's garbage.