"Maokai's Supposed to be a Hearty Tank Who Wades into Combat"

The Yetii Rider··18 votes·2,980 views
Patch 7.11 notes

Let's go over this again, because apparently no one was listening last time.

A) Jungle Maokai has to max W. That is going to happen no matter what, you need the lower CD mobility and the higher duration CC, especially since Q CC has had its duration gutted.

B) Top Lane Maokai is not going to be a thing without an item that tanks can rush against divers and juggernauts. And since there can never be an item for tanks that beats The Black Cleaver, because The Black Cleaver is specifically designed to punish tanks being played in top lane, there's no way to play him top. Especially when you nerf his bush abuse, the one good thing about his rework.

C) AP Support Maokai arose from the ashes of the rework because you created it. "Play around bushes" is not something a tank can do. It's idiotic. Team fights happen in lane, they happen at dragon and at baron. There are no bushes anywhere near dragon and the bush near baron is in one direction, a smart team can advance from the other direction. This is the same problem that Skarner has, and at least with Skarner you gave him a way to proc his passive regardless of location.

So, what can we conclude here?

The Maokai rework removed the benefits of playing Maokai as a tank while offering him nothing significant in return.

So, let's talk about that specifically in more detail, because Riot is nerfing Maokai without giving him anything good to fall back on.

Why the Passive Buff Will Accomplish Nothing - Maokai is not bad in the late game. No one thinks that. He just has no place in the early game. The jungle is no place for sapling bombs, it's awkward and annoying. Maxing W is required because a tank's power comes online in the mid game and you want to be snaring for longer and snaring more targets, but maxing W makes your clears slower and doesn't give much power to your ganks.

So why is the passive buff largely irrelevant to the mid game? Because in order to be healed, you need to be damaged. And in order to be damaged and not dead, you need to survive damage. Now, every single item has been made worse as a first item buy intentionally. Additionally, they all give less health. So Maokai has less of a health pool to survive burst and less health per item to benefit from his health scaling heal. And he needs armor and MR of a decent amount to survive the damage, then he needs health to make the heal decent.

So basically, the heal buff affects Maokai when he has item 3193 and three other items, which is when he's already decent. That's not the problem tank Maokai is having, the problem is there's no place to go before team fights are happening.

So either give Maokai somewhere to go or stop nerfing his AP support build, because that's all you left for him.

Also, screw his ultimate. Seriously. Just fuck you for that Riot. It shouldn't feel bad to press R, for any champion. An ultimate should be exciting and satisfying to use on everyone. That's why it's an ultimate. I don't care one-tenth as much about balance as I do about my champion being fun and satisfying to play, and you ruined that.

14 Comments

Ralanr6 votes

Yeah his ult is just kinda...fucking awful for a vanguard. And his E playstyle is basically getting people to chase him into the bushes, which is incredibly weird for a tank.

Teridax683 votes

I agree with this, and I don't think there's much about his old or current playstyle that really points to him being a Vanguard. Static trap abilities are defensive in nature, and Maokai's old passive and ult meant he benefited much more from hanging around his teammates than by initiating on his own, which he never did well. He's a Warden at heart who just got turned into a Vanguard for no discernible reason, and his kit, which for the longest time was a little weird, but functional and fun overall, just fell apart as a result. He's one of the rare champions I think would benefit from a revert to his rework, and instead he should just receive a new, Warden-oriented ult, one that would encourage him to turn himself into a massive anti-damage wall for his own team at the cost of his own survivability.

Warhammer Titan5 votes

It feels like his only use right now is to zone people early game

Keevalroy5 votes

All they needed to do was decrease the W damage on players, increase its range, and increase damage on monsters. Everything else would be fine. He could still be a brick wall in top while not out-dpsing a carry, and be relevant in the jungle again. Wow, that was soooo hard.

Revert this shitty forced-gimmick rework, especially when BelugaWhale couldn't even be bothered to put up a feedback thread to see what was wrong with it. And why not? Did you honestly think people wouldn't have any issues or concerns, or did you know and not want to hear them? Because this rework is fucking awful and you need to be aware of that.

"OH BUT DUH KITTIES ON MEOWKAI DOE!"

That's not an excuse for such a terrible ability, and on an ult no less. You would need to be braindamaged or directly on top of him to be hit by that molasses wall, but sure, he's going to make good use of that from the jungle...at least his overloaded saplings can do more damage if they're in a bush. Cool...

Y'know, I figured when "sticky saplings" were teased, it meant that if you threw them and they came in contact with a champion, they stuck onto them before exploding, allowing top lane Mao to still have some semi-reliable damage with a potentially damage-nerfed W, and semi-reliable chase from a gank allowing him to get in range for a W once the stuck sapling exploded, but I guess not. I guess this needed to be gimmicky and terrible because "he needs a niche."

If Mao needs a niche, I sincerely hope you fucking murder Lee Sin when he gets reworked, and follow the same example set here and not give a damn about player feedback. Fair treatment is in order - make his fanbase suffer a brick-walled kit butchering.

Thefrostyviking2 votes

Malzahar Malzahar picture?

Ez dePaz1 votes

This is a malzahar thread now.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

Oh no O_O

Hostile takeover by floating guy in purple.

Not sure if one should be amazed at his fashion choices or the fact that he is floating.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

Malzahar Malzahar picture?

The link I included is to the official patch notes where the title is from. Apparently Riot chose to represent the link with a picture of Malzahar because he's the big change this patch.

Thefrostyviking1 votes

oh alright.

hater free zone1 votes

you have a good point about the bush thing.

ZT Xperimentor1 votes

Too bad divers & marksmen don't get gutted like tanks do, forbid some strategic diversity keep the game alive.

Proxy3451 votes

Maokai is an AP mage now lol Literally zero reason to build him as a tank at this point.

Cobey1 votes

I think at this point champion reworks are being seen almost as a threat than something beneficial in the game. People are just patiently waiting, worried out of their minds that their main is going to get gutted, and even if the rework doesn't gut the champ, it still won't be the same champ got so used to playing before.

I mean, they made some pretty significant changes to champs like Warwick and Poppy, but it also seems that they kept a lot of their 'feel' as a champ. However, with recent champ reworks this doesn't seem to be the case and it seems to be almost a complete overhaul of their abilities and their essence as a champion.

I play gnar, ziggs, poppy and bard mainly so I don't think I'll be in for any reworks soon (thank god). But I fear for those that are just waiting for their mains to be next on the chopping block.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

They left almost nothing from Sion, his rework was still a giant success.

Yorick is barely recognizable as well. Some champions are just designed so incredibly poorly they need to be entirely replaced. coughKindredcough

But that doesn't mean that RIot shouldn't have some kind of direction when they change a champion. With Maokai they nerfed him out of competitive, that was their goal and good on them for doing it. But when they give him a new niche, and then people start playing him based on that niche, they nerf him instantly. Twice. And give him no new space to exist in.

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