Okay, apparently riot wants to completely gut skarner

Malicious Metal·Nov 25, 2015·95 votes·4,285 views

AS buff of his spires reduced to 90% from 160%

Okay

What

Seriously

I can't even

...

Riot, pass me whatever you're smoking at HQ

100 Comments

ZephyrDrakeNov 25, 201521 votes

Skarner still exist? i thought he just packed his things and went home, i mean he pretty much banished from the face of the earth when he was last nerfed and from what i'm seeing in the PBE patch notes they are gutting his ult AD ratio for no reason whatsoever. Haven't seen a nerf to his AS while he is on his spires but if it's true then Riot just doesn't want people to play Skarner ever.

Can you just admit that Skarner is a failure of a champion and give him a proper rework already Riot? seriously, every time you nerf him is just massive nerfs that pretty much says "DO NOT PLAY THIS!" =/

yay nibbersNov 25, 20154 votes

Skarner is actually still pretty strong despite his playrate. He always was if you ask me, before and after his juggernaut update. That said, I agree they're hitting him a bit hard. Though even if they nerf his damage, he'll still have that 1second stun on his E and his disgusting ult where people are dragged to their graves kicking and screaming. He's still going to be a farm machine and his ganks are still going to be crazy when he hits 6.

HeadHonchkrowNov 26, 20152 votes

dragged to their graves

Urgot <<<<<<< Skarner Graves "Noooooooo!"

OshletNov 25, 201515 votes

Alrighty, now I'm drawing the line. This is getting stupid, the q nerf I could stand because it was near inconsequential, but taking 1.2 of the ad ratio off his ult and gutting the spire buffs. It looks like Riot is trying to remove all his offensive scaling and turn him into a lockdown tank. I would hope these changes get reverted before they go to live so juggerscorp can stay as a mid-damage high single target cc monster like he's supposed to be.

I mean, I might be a bit biased 'cos skarner is my favourite champion but this is insane.

SpecterVonBarenNov 25, 20151 votes

Shame, he was a great lockdown tank before his last rework and now they're turning him back into a lockdown tank but with a stupid rock gimick in exchange for a lockdown passive and good base stats.

OshletNov 26, 20151 votes

I like the "stupid rock gimmick" quite a bit, what I don't like is that Riot is taking a big steaming dump on it. I'm not sure what you mean about loosing the lock-down passive though, having crystal venom on his e and making it stun for 1 second at all ranks is awesome. I want to re-iterate, I DON'T want Skarner to become a lockdown tank again, I want him to remain upon his mighty podium of Juggerscorp, shitter-upon of all assassins foolish enough to face him.

SpecterVonBarenNov 26, 20151 votes

It's not awesome. It means if he misses his E then he has no way to CC people without his ult. His old passive was far supperior, it gave him a way to keep people locked down so he could fight them. And he was much stronger before the rework, he could be played as a dangerous carry with lots of damage just fine before, now he's garbage for that if he's not near one of his rocks. In his spires he's barely more powerful than he was before and before he could be powerful anywhere.

OshletNov 26, 20151 votes

I'm gonna have to disagree with you there, the enormous attack speed buff sets him far ahead of old skarner stat-wise when he's under them, and below old skarner when outside them. Working as intended. Additionally, his ad scalings and physical damage in general got buffed with his rework, not nerfed. I find the juggernaut items like steraks synergise well with him and allow him to function as a damage dealer. Previously, you were far too squishy to carry out skarner's other functions if you built damage.

And with regards to old venom vs new venom, it was essentially the same with old venom: If you missed, you likely wouldn't close the gap and be able to stack up the venom with crystal slashes and even if you did hit, it was a sort of clunky mechanic as you still had to slash them twice (Although the movespeed buff it used to give helped a little in sticking to apply all the stacks, I'd still say our current venom is better).

I guess its a matter of opinion.

SpecterVonBarenNov 26, 20151 votes

WHEN he's under them, otherwise it's shit and that's why its so much worse. He also lost a lot of base damage and having better AD scaling doesn't mean anything because you can never afford to build a bunch of AD for them because you'd die before you ever got on top of someone.

Old Skarner had good base damage that made him synergize well with Sheen items and allowed him to build some durability to allow him to survive in fights. New Skarner lost that base damage in exchange for scalings that he's never going to invest in. Not even you actually buy AD items, you yourself buy Triforce, Stereks, or Iceborn at most, none of those items provide much AD, Triforce is for procs of its Sheen effect and Steraks, while giving decent AD, it is only decent AD for a bruiser item.

The old passive was fantastic, it was satisfying and practical, it allowed you enough time to lock down and kill someone in a gank and since it could be applied to multiple people in a teamfight, it allowed you to deal out a lot of CC while in the thick of things.

It is not a matter of opinion, they gutted his base movespeed, attackspeed, and lowered his base AD all so he can have a gimick of being strong around crystals that don't even factor into the game until 10-15 minutes. If Skarner falls behind before the game progresses to the point where people start actively fighting around the points where his crystals are then they aren't going to magically turn things around. Skarner is a jungler and he's meant to be played as a ganker, that's what his kit is designed for, the crystals don't help him jungle, they just sucked away the power he had to jungle by himself in exchange for making it so he's garbage when he's in a lane. It was like breaking his legs and then giving him crutches.

I really wish we could go back to Scruffy's rework, but that time is gone now...

OshletNov 26, 20151 votes

Again, I'm gonna have to disagree: His old and new qs deal roughly the same amount of damage from what I've experienced, but the first was base damage + bonus ad whereas the new one is total ad, additionally, it scales with total ad for both physical and magic damage component which buffs up skarner's synergy with offensive items, while not stripping it of base damage as it scales off his total ad (base and bonus).

Additionally, the gripe you have about his base ad is a total lie, his base ad growth was increased with the rework and his base ad was untouched: His rework made him synergise better with items like triforce and sterak's late. Triforce and Steraks is also often all you need for strengthening your damage output.

I liked the old passive lots, but I think the new way its been applied to his kit is better: You don't want to give people time in a gank, you want to kill them as fast as you can, therefore, with the entire ability being moved to his e, his early game ganks got buffed. At the same time, he can still apply the stun very easily in a melee as its hard to dodge the ability at close range.

His attack speed and movespeed were also untouched: on pbe, his movespeed was lower, but Repetoir rectified that. The only place he lost movespeed and attack speed from was his q stacking the stats up which required sustained combat: something unsuited to a jungler. At the same time, proccing crystal venom now gives you the spire buff, so triggering it allows you to get a couple of fast autos off and position yourself more favourably around your target.

His w, the shield, was outright buffed. Its a fantastically strong ability now and synergises really well with the high health juggernaut builds that skarner favours.

His crystals are not a "crutch" they give him faster than average clears and make him a counterjungling monster, even early game, because 40-50% attack speed is not an ignorable stat. Additionally, late game, they give him clearly designed zones of power that can be fought over: a feature unique to skarner; they feel incredibly powerful too as the attack speed buff and movespeed buff his q used to give is incomparable to the stats he gets from his spires.

It is a manner of opinion, you may feel like this was a downgrade on scruffy rework MKII, but I liked it, and still like it.

SiNful JunglerNov 25, 20157 votes

lol u forgot the r damage nerf dwon from 1 ad to .4 ad to compensate the nerf of the spires XD*[slayer-jinx-unamused]* but in the bright side the reverted the nerf of his q

Variks the LoyalNov 25, 20155 votes

This is typical of the Skarner changes.

Rework comes out for Skarner.

Rework does pretty well, at first.

Rework is nerfed, Skarner stops being used.

Skarner is nerfed again for no real reason.

It's happened three times. It'll probably happen again.

KONO RUBICK DANov 25, 20154 votes

it's useless malicous, board told me that skarner has 53% win rate and need a small nerf, you won't convince riot to stand aside from their shit.

they nerfed swain, nerfed more twisted fate than brand, nerfed skarner. This patch will be a huge shit.

Malicious MetalNov 25, 201530 votes

53% win rate with an abysmal puck rate? Heck, If i ever see Skarner it's usually me playing him.

Still 53% would warrant a small nerf like reducing his ult damage, increasing its CD early or something along these lines.

But hitting what's basically Darius' noxian might or Garen's villain mechanic is just dumb...

KONO RUBICK DANov 25, 20154 votes

[{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UXX6ZnLK,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-11-25T09:07:01.599+0000)

53% win rate with an abysmal puck rate? Heck, If i ever see Skarner it's usually me playing him.

Still 53% would warrant a small nerf like reducing his ult damage, increasing its CD early or something along these lines.

But hitting what's basically Darius' noxian might or Garen's villain mechanic is just dumb...

riot said that 52% win rate is the idea win rate for an easy champ, this patch sound like Meddler got rekt by swain/skarner and decided to nerf them with whatever escuse

NarasimhaNov 25, 20151 votes

I don't know about Skarner, but Swain has always been pretty strong. Not exactly sleeper OP levels, but a solid pick nonetheless.

Troll for TrumpNov 25, 20151 votes

Lot of things are like that until recent, Chogath Malzahar Anivia Swain

L RayquazaDec 14, 20151 votes

Shhhh, don't talk about my mid picks, I would like to actually play ranked this year

KONO RUBICK DANov 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

I don't know about Skarner, but Swain has always been pretty strong. Not exactly sleeper OP levels, but a solid pick nonetheless.

solid pick isn't a synonym of nerf

and swain is 40% less efficient if you build a 800 gold item

NarasimhaNov 25, 20152 votes

The same can be said for Mundo.

And yet no one builds the damn thing anyway.

KONO RUBICK DANov 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

The same can be said for Mundo.

And yet no one builds the damn thing anyway.

mundo is a more a problem because nobody take ap with them which makes him able to get 300 armor and 4000 hp, they also don't buy armor pene or brk

SouL1essNov 27, 20151 votes

So my first thought was Quicksilver sash but it turns out to be Executioner's calling?

Am I the only one who uses QSS to cleanse Torment, then proceed to win?...

NegusInParisNov 26, 20151 votes

Well I've seen popular picks with the same win rate. Untouched.

Lady HammerlockNov 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

it's useless malicous, board told me that skarner has 53% win rate and need a small nerf, you won't convince riot to stand aside from their shit.

they nerfed swain, nerfed more twisted fate than brand, nerfed skarner. This patch will be a huge shit.

snowball meta twisted fate's purpose is to snowball simple reason on that swain nerf uncalled for skarner nerf made me ?????????? like he was completely fine if he didn't flash and the enemy adc had a brain he would have a pretty hard time

KONO RUBICK DANov 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

snowball meta twisted fate's purpose is to snowball simple reason on that swain nerf uncalled for skarner nerf made me ?????????? like he was completely fine if he didn't flash and the enemy adc had a brain he would have a pretty hard time

twisted fate needs a nerf, i'm not dumb but brand has 57% win rate and has just a mana cost increased while twisted fate is less a problem and gets more nerf

Troll for TrumpNov 25, 20151 votes

Yes, but when was the last time you saw a TF...

KONO RUBICK DANov 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Yes, but when was the last time you saw a TF...

he is permapicked in korea with something like 52/53% win rate, the nerf won't stop him it's not because his ulti has 1000 less range that he will have troubles to gank.

ModAcademy KaynNov 25, 20151 votes

Isn't it a buff early game, but nerf at Rank 3? And only a 500 range nerf?

Hambone2013Nov 25, 20152 votes

Other way around. 1500 units shorter at rank one 500 more at rank 3.

Troll for TrumpNov 25, 20151 votes

Korea plx.

Pierce The VealNov 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

it's useless malicous, board told me that skarner has 53% win rate and need a small nerf, you won't convince riot to stand aside from their shit.

they nerfed swain, nerfed more twisted fate than brand, nerfed skarner. This patch will be a huge shit.

Meanwhile Hecarim is also losing his passive and 110 HP.

His average winrate is ~50.5% and experienced players get 54-55% winrate average off of him. I think this is totally grounds for a gut.

KONO RUBICK DANov 25, 20152 votes

{quoted}

Meanwhile Hecarim is also losing his passive and 110 HP.

His average winrate is ~50.5% and experienced players get 54-55% winrate average off of him. I think this is totally grounds for a gut.

told you, they nerf not broken champions (at best little strong) instead of huge problem champs in this season like Yasuo Elise TahmKench it's like they got demolished by them and were like "what the fuck? why didn't we nerfed those champions yet"

TheGr8WhiteDNov 25, 20151 votes

Elise is not a problem lol. She is just a strong early game champ and is the only runeglaive jungler that can build tank and not be completely useless, so the ap nerfs arent too bad on her. She is just very situationally okay, but even on Champion.gg She doesnt even have a 49% Winrate. By no means is she op right now. The game is just so snowbally even a difficult champion like Elise can do well b/c of her early game and games being 25 minutes tops.

My Waifu VanillaNov 25, 20153 votes

She's getting a huge buff on pbe with jungle camps losing 20 MR.

TheGr8WhiteDDec 7, 20151 votes

Thats really not a buff to Elise as she stays in spider form for camps for the sustain. Most high elo junglers even get Machete because of the fact they just throw out a W and maybe a Q and then stay spider the entire camp.

KONO RUBICK DANov 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Elise is not a problem lol. She is just a strong early game champ and is the only runeglaive jungler that can build tank and not be completely useless, so the ap nerfs arent too bad on her. She is just very situationally okay, but even on Champion.gg She doesnt even have a 49% Winrate. By no means is she op right now. The game is just so snowbally even a difficult champion like Elise can do well b/c of her early game and games being 25 minutes tops.

did you know that she had 98% ban rate in world? and that she counters bruisers way harder when mundo and malphite have 15% pick rate and 57% win rate?

TheGr8WhiteDNov 28, 20151 votes

Yes, but the same can be said for the most picked support at worlds; Braum. Braum is a great champion, but he doesnt do all that well in solo que b/c the adc has to know how to react to him moving in. The same is for Elise, excluding very high elo such as challenger of course.

XanesNov 25, 20152 votes

Experienced players actually have a 64.2 % winrate with him in the toplane. You most likely looked at his jungle winrates. Skarner has a 63.7 % winrate when played by experienced players.

I don't agree with these nerfs, but these numbers are most likely the reason they are nerfing both of them.

Pierce The VealNov 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

Experienced players actually have a 64.2 % winrate with him in the toplane. You most likely looked at his jungle winrates. Skarner has a 63.7 % winrate when played by experienced players.

I don't agree with these nerfs, but these numbers are most likely the reason they are nerfing both of them.

The stats I gave are champion.gg toplane stats for 125+ games.

XanesNov 25, 20151 votes

No, i just checked again, you posted the Hecarium jungle stats.

Pierce The VealNov 25, 20151 votes

{quoted}

No, i just checked again, you posted the Hecarium jungle stats.

Odd, the one I checked said Toplane on it. The nerfs to the passive however ruin his identity. If he's so broken toplane, toplane, they should nerf what makes him broken, like maybe his heal off of minions (instead of monsters). Or maybe don't allow the reduced cooldown on q to apply from hitting minions (rampage).

AnisopteraNov 25, 20154 votes

Skarner was perfect before they reworked him. Now we have a crappy Q, and lots of his power budget shoved into those stones around the map.

Jesus Died 4 YouNov 25, 20153 votes

I'd rather the spires be removed completely in favor of actual in-depth gameplay

Only Play DariusNov 25, 20152 votes

Probably shouldn't smoke meth

MatezoideNov 26, 20152 votes

Thats how Skarner works. Whenever he is good, he gets nerfed.

Remember his last rework? He was shit tier for a while, then got a few tweaks and actually became decent. He even saw Pro-Play in a single game (Where he went against a Lee Sin and lost)!

Then he got nerfed into an even weaker state in the very next patch.