Why is it a single magic resist item feels way more impactful than a single armor item?

Hexs Fortune·Mar 6, 2017·71 votes·6,659 views

= you stop dying to burst by champs like = still die to burst by champs like

106 Comments

ArnoldSchwarzensMar 6, 201747 votes

It's mostly because every champion has less base MR than armor. Every champions start at around 18-30 armor and ends up with like 70-110 without runes. Every ranged champion in the game has 30 base MR without any MR per lvl while every melee champ also has MR per lvl, so they end up with 52 MR at lvl 18, yet again not counting runes.

One armor item basically gives you 50% of the armor you already had, while one MR item might just be double your base MR value.

That's also why magic damage is generally considered better than physical damage or why magic pen is more expensive and valuable than armor pen.

Titanium70Mar 6, 20175 votes

^This summs things up.

Small add: Every single Magic-DMG dealer is balanced around facing those 30MR targets with the mandatory item 3020 and Runes in mind - Most Normal-DMG dealers however were balanced around the higher Base Armor AND with alot less Penetration options in mind.

That's why Leathality had such a huge impact on the game.

MelledoneusMar 6, 20174 votes

Another reason is because AD has more overall penetration, more uptime, and crit.

SH AzykanMar 6, 20177 votes

this plus Auto attacks = 100% ad scaling as well, so you are generally taking more sustained physical damage, where ap goes through a rotation and then well, in most cases that is it. where a AD is doing a rotation + 100% scaling autos that add into it to deal damage while their skills are on cd still

SaltyKrackaMar 6, 201721 votes

Because you're only going to build one MR item ever.

And it's going to be item 3065 , because item 3102 is shit.

GrymmstrikeMar 6, 201714 votes

{quoted}

Because you're only going to build one MR item ever.

And it's going to be , because is shit.

Is it bad that I don't even know what the little cross necklace thing is?

Irelia BotMar 6, 201740 votes

It is the LoL condom

It blocks the shot and kills someones enjoyment.

MelledoneusMar 6, 201713 votes

Riot, sticky this comment please.

4th3t0sMar 6, 20177 votes

[{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UWOEqrB8,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2017-03-06T01:27:34.553+0000)

It is the LoL condom

It blocks the shot and kills someones enjoyment.

so item 3814 is......?

SH AzykanMar 6, 20175 votes

pulling out because it only works if you do so before you shoot

crippler38Mar 6, 20172 votes

if it's sticky then it worked.

ThefrostyvikingMar 6, 20171 votes

{quoted}

Because you're only going to build one MR item ever.

And it's going to be , because is shit.

Banshee is a legit item....for squishies having issue's with singular powerful abilities and such.

Like Varus ulti, malp ulti or amumu ulti.

MrryZMar 6, 20175 votes

Except anyone with half a brain would pop the basnhees before committing to a key spell such as those, sure it delays those spells from hitting you but they're still gonna hit you eventually.

Backup4nowMar 6, 201713 votes

Because physical damage dealers tend to have dps as well as very high burst. You buy an armor item, making it so you don't die instantly, and then they just auto you a couple more times to do the rest of the health that wasn't taken out by their burst.

When it comes to magic damage, they are their abilities and nothing more. Magic resist pushes you into the "don't die in one hit" territory, and then they don't have any means of finishing you off once their rotation is through; they must wait until one of their spells is back up. Notice how it feels like magic resist does nothing against the likes of Cassiopeia or other DPS mages for that very reason.

jaymc1130Mar 6, 201710 votes

One word.

Lethality.

TeCoolMageMar 6, 20173 votes

armour cancels out lethality, not the other way around.

jaymc1130Mar 6, 20176 votes

{quoted}

armour cancels out lethality, not the other way around.

It's kind of a two way street mate...

TeCoolMageMar 6, 20172 votes

A two way street isn't always flat.

IcyPepperMar 6, 20173 votes

Hope you don't mind if I have the last whisper here, but a two way street sometimes scales.

StandgroundingMar 6, 20172 votes

item 3071

IcyPepperMar 6, 20172 votes

If you're trying to cleave through my puns, it's going to take more than that to trigger my rage.

jaymc1130Mar 6, 20175 votes

{quoted}

A two way street isn't always flat.

Lmao. What are these wise sage quotes? 2 funny mate.

Yeah, it don't have to be flat, u rite. It can tilt one way or the other. Given the effectiveness and cheapness of lethality items as well as effective build orders for damage output that street appears to tilt in favor of lethality at the moment over armor.

Meanwhile AP requires a certain damage threshold to be effective before penetration purchases. This is what makes a single mr item feel more impactful early (negatron cloak rush is common) than armor (no one rushes a chain vest).

TeCoolMageMar 7, 20171 votes

Frozen heart - 90 armour on 1 item

Youmuu's + Duskblade + Edge of Night - 45 Lethality on 3 items

90 armour at level 1 and 90 armour at level 18 vs 27 armour penetration at level 1 and 45 armour penetration at level 18

Also, negatron cloak counters MPen, not the other way around. Comparing NLR to Negatron+Ruby crytal and Sorcs

MR vs flat AP is slightly in AP's favour as flat AP gets the core items faster, MR can build into a defensive item but these are situational items. The MR guy isn't going to slow you down since his harass is now trash, so farm.

AP vs MPen is in MPen's favour since MPen gives an early spike that multiplies base damage, which forms the bulk of early game damage since 60 AP isn't going to be as much as that 200+ base damage. Kill the AP stacker for having less damage and snowball to keep your MPen AND get your core items faster.

MPen vs MR is in MR's favour since MR reduces the effectiveness of MPen more than it reduces the effectiveness of base and AP damage, and the point of MPen is to abuse early game lack of MR in exchange for a slightly delayed full AP item powerspike. The MPen guy wasted a ton of gold on MPen, start trading with him and farming up for a full item while he sits on boots + half a core item.

jaymc1130Mar 7, 20175 votes

{quoted}

Frozen heart - 90 armour on 1 item

Youmuu's + Duskblade + Edge of Night - 45 Lethality on 3 items

90 armour at level 1 and 90 armour at level 18 vs 27 armour penetration at level 1 and 45 armour penetration at level 18

Also, negatron cloak counters MPen, not the other way around. Comparing NLR to Negatron+Ruby crytal and Sorcs

MR vs flat AP is slightly in AP's favour as flat AP gets the core items faster, MR can build into a defensive item but these are situational items. The MR guy isn't going to slow you down since his harass is now trash, so farm.

AP vs MPen is in MPen's favour since MPen gives an early spike that multiplies base damage, which forms the bulk of early game damage since 60 AP isn't going to be as much as that 200+ base damage. Kill the AP stacker for having less damage and snowball to keep your MPen AND get your core items faster.

MPen vs MR is in MR's favour since MR reduces the effectiveness of MPen more than it reduces the effectiveness of base and AP damage, and the point of MPen is to abuse early game lack of MR in exchange for a slightly delayed full AP item powerspike. The MPen guy wasted a ton of gold on MPen, start trading with him and farming up for a full item while he sits on boots + half a core item.

Well don't let me, the 4 season diamond and former master tier player tell you, a bronzie, how things in this game actually work mate. Think what you want, lol.

http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/GD/vI6j12J7-round-2

Lol.

TeCoolMageMar 7, 20171 votes

lol season 4 diamond, can't do math.

3 is larger than 1, is that better? Or do I need to go simpler?

jaymc1130Mar 7, 20175 votes

{quoted}

lol season 4 diamond, can't do math.

3 is larger than 1, is that better? Or do I need to go simpler?

I don't think you can do maths mate...

https://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=LikeAMaws

Only been posting here since season 1.

But hey, you're bronze, you know this game inside and out, at the deepest levels, it's why you've risen to such a high rank.

So again, don't let me tell yah anything that might sway your expert opinion. You clearly know better than me.

SpeeedyMar 7, 20172 votes

ignorant comment, rank != game knowledge. Rank only means you are able to execute ability in game. Think of it like coaches in football they were never great players themselves but they know a ton about the game.

The EcdysiastMar 9, 20171 votes

Lethality becomes flat armor penetration.

It stacks on top of %armor reduction from Cleaver.

That is why 3 armor items now = 1 armor item back when armor mattered.

TeCoolMageMar 9, 20171 votes

flat armour penetration is always countered by armour.

It's % armour reduction that matters, which has always been a problem with tank scaling. But not only is that out of context since its effects aren't as strong until more than 1 armour item (and if you're comparing the first armour item someone gets to two penetration items that's very biased), it's also based on the AD champion and it may not be in their build in the first place.

The EcdysiastMar 6, 20171 votes

When you stack armor, yeah. Atm lethality is stronger the entire game, on champions designed to get much more gold to finish said items faster.

TeCoolMageMar 7, 20171 votes

Armour is 20 gold per point, and cancels out 37.5 - 22.5 gold worth of armour penetration per point depending on level Lethality is 22.5 gold per point (or armour penetration is 37.5 - 22.5 gold per point), and cancels out 12 - 20 gold worth of armour per point depending on level

In other words, every 20 gold from the tank costs 17.5 - 2.5 more for an assassin to cancel out. Every 20 gold from the assassin costs 8 - 2.5 gold less for the tank to cancel out

Zed's going to have to play super risky to get fed while Poppy and Maokai contribute by TPing bot lane or split pushing. Usually top laners end with a huge amount of CS while assassins don't really, they just focus on making picks and hope it brings the enemy behind really far.

The EcdysiastMar 7, 20171 votes

There's nothing risky about having two methods of escape.

TeCoolMageMar 8, 20171 votes

It's more than just the moment you engage, it's the gold you sacrifice for leaving lane, having to back after using your escapes, how fast you get around the map, where the jungler is, and how the lane on the opposite side of the map is pressured.

The EcdysiastMar 9, 20171 votes

Except he has a passive that guarantees farm under turret no matter how little AD he has from backs. So he risks less than any other melee champion in the game except Nasus or Gangplank.

TeCoolMageMar 9, 20171 votes

His passive only guarantees farm if he's shoved in while in lane. If the tower kills the minions there's nothing to guarantee, which is why there's risk and a lot of prediction behind roaming and the enemy's ability to shov after you leave.

I think assassins are powerful, but they're not safe, they just reward too much despite the risk being fairly large too.

The EcdysiastMar 9, 20171 votes

The risk isn't large. That's the point. 1 kill amounts to more gold than an entire wave of minions. It's an uneven risk.

It's simple enough to learn when the enemy will be at just as much of a loss for farm as you are leaving.

ValyrianBladeMar 6, 20176 votes

[{quoted}](name=Hexs Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UWOEqrB8,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-03-06T01:07:49.501+0000)

= you stop dying to burst by champs like = still die to burst by champs like

Try saying a single MR item feels far superior against a Corki or Cassio.

The truth is that a single MR item is enough to survive most mages/assassins single burst combo that is carefully calibrated to 100-0 a squishy target if everything hits. If something misses they aren't supposed to kill the squishy, so logically if you're tankier than a squishy you should survive despite everything hitting. Add in some more health from your armor items (which also counters the mage's burst) and you suddenly don't feel the mage's combo very strongly any more.

Meanwhile, a single armor item isn't going to do much against an AD assassin that has stacked loads of pen instead of outright damage. It makes them way more efficient against a single armor item but way less efficient against stacking armor. Since stacking armor will also simultaneously help you survive the sustained damage of the ADC, this isn't really a problem (it's still useful, whereas if you had to stack MR there'd be multiple AD opponents that could shred you).

At the end of the day, some AD caster champions are severely overtuned right now, but the difference between armor and MR is fine in my eyes.

Twitch ChatMar 6, 20175 votes

item 3047

Head ConnoisseurMar 6, 20174 votes

Because ad scales up your abilities AND auto attacks, whereas ap only scales up abilities. AD users have an additional source of damage compared to ap users, so a single defense item feels less impactful.

CancerBasedGodMar 6, 20173 votes

Because Raduins is for AAs and not burst?

GayFluffyUnicornMar 7, 20171 votes

And what armor option do i have on ryze for example? Sunfire? I don't want to get close, bamis wasted. Thornmail? Trash. DMP? Well you could argue for the movespeed. Randuins atleast you can utilise the active when something like a kha zix jumps at you to kite him.

CatastropMar 9, 20171 votes

{quoted}

And what armor option do i have on ryze for example? Sunfire? I don't want to get close, bamis wasted. Thornmail? Trash. DMP? Well you could argue for the movespeed. Randuins atleast you can utilise the active when something like a kha zix jumps at you to kite him.

item 3110 is an item you know.

Earl EulrichMar 6, 20173 votes

Well - because at least most mages have actual Cooldowns between their Burst-Windows...making surviving one rotation somewhat meaningfull, whereas AD-Dmg just never stops coming as even on Champs like Panth and Riven a huge part of it stems from Auto-Attacks...so these Champions just need a few more hits than usual, but as you can´t escape from them and still can´t trade back often times it´s merely delaying the inevitable anyway just for a few seconds - if at all. And that´s really sth. Riot never really addresses properly - especially on Crit carries what they call DPS often is just sutained Burst if a Caitlyn hits you for ~600twice a second lategame.

ahferroin7Mar 6, 20173 votes

There are a couple of reasons. One of the biggest is that there are diminishing returns to damage reduction the more damage resistance you buy, and you start with less MR than armor. Most magic resist items also give more (on average) than armor items. On top of that, armor pen is easy to get, while magic pen isn't (compare about 7 items to about 3).

Also, for the specific example you gave, BV actually nullifies all the damage from the first ability you get hit by, while Omen does no such thing, and is sub-par against burst champs (the AS redux has no net effect on champs like Riven or Pantheon because most of their damage isn't auto attacks).