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Can we introduce a Life steal cap (like CDR) or give it diminishing returns similar to tenacity?

Malicious Metal··18 votes·1,203 views

I remember Spellvamp was never allowed to be a good stat because "Mages burst healing" wasn't something Riot would want.

Yet with League's current state, with shields, heals and damage higher than they've ever been it's become increasingly difficult to actually kill life steal stackers.

Especially champions like Riven and Draven can feel extremely punishing to try and kill, and even then they usually have a GA, making them tougher to kill than the actual tanks.

So, why can't we change Life steal as a stat? There's a ton of ways to do so. Be it the Lifeline way of making the life steal passive an uniquely named one. Introducing a LS cap Making the % have diminishing returns if you overstack it.

Just my two cents on the topic, nobody really likes playing against endless sustain characters and I think if a champion's supposed to be a power-healer they should have it in their kit.

27 Comments

Mordepool8 votes

Honestly I have been saying Lifesteal is a Fundamental problem with the game for 5-6 years now. Hopefully it will be addressed

Ahristocats3 votes

might as well make it an active on items instead of a passive

Mordepool2 votes

I was thinking about lifesteal being 1/2 as effective when in combat with Champions. Makes the game less about drain tanking. Let's Sustain champions actually bring g something unique to a team fight.

Unreformed Shaco2 votes

I wholeheartedly agree.

It's even more frustrating when you poke out an ADC for them to hit a minion twice and be back at full.

I think if they won't prevent you from getting more than 20ish%, they should reduce the amount you heal from minions. You already hit them harder than you hit champs, so 300+ heals per hit is a bit much.

e46 Fanatic1 votes

I disagree totally as item 3123 oritem 3165 deletes that lifesteal pretty much.

Unreformed Shaco4 votes

It halves it, not deletes.

And for morellos, that is provided you can get someone to 35% when they are healing for 400 a second.

xToxicOsirisx1 votes

If you're a mage and you cant even burst an adc to 35% health, you're either

A: Hitting a support shield B: Getting outplayed C: Doing something wrong.

Even so, hitting them with any amount of damage below that threshold basically halves their healing for the rest of the fight. It lasts a whole 8 seconds.

zxinferxz4 votes

"B: Getting outplayed" item 3812 item 3046 item 3109 :thinking:

xToxicOsirisx1 votes

if they're dodging your abilities, you're getting outplayed. If you're in range to be hit by an adc and your a mage, you're getting outplayed.

ObscureParticle2 votes

{quoted}

if they're dodging your abilities, you're getting outplayed. If you're in range to be hit by an adc and your a mage, you're getting outplayed.

Caitlyn Tristana Jinx Jhin all have as much range, if not more than mages.

xToxicOsirisx1 votes

Guess it really depends on the mage. But two of those are late scaling carries, so you should be killing them in midgame. One of those, i'll give you, is bs Caitlyn . The other has low dps overall and only gets long range on his ultimate and a highly delayed skillshot.

If theyre in range to auto you though, you are most certainly in range to burst them.

ObscureParticle3 votes

{quoted}

If you're a mage and you cant even burst an adc to 35% health, you're either

A: Hitting a support shield B: Getting outplayed C: Doing something wrong.

Even so, hitting them with any amount of damage below that threshold basically halves their healing for the rest of the fight. It lasts a whole 8 seconds.

Even if you do... now there is also item 3026 and did you forget item 3156 which gives them even more LS.

xToxicOsirisx1 votes

GA doesn't provide stats against mages, only the revive passive, which is only helpful if the adcs team hasn't lost the fight.

Maw is fairly low cost efficiency except with the shield. If an adc is buying this, they're giving up on armor pen, lifesteal, or a third crit item.

e46 Fanatic1 votes

{quoted}

It halves it, not deletes.

And for morellos, that is provided you can get someone to 35% when they are healing for 400 a second.

{quoted}

Delete? It only reduces it by 40%, which when you add critical and on hit effects such as BotRK or Blood Razor, those two are completely irrelevant. That's without even mentioning that those two can't be built on half the champions and still be viable.

I said 'pretty much deletes'. Did you miss that?

ObscureParticle1 votes

{quoted}

I disagree totally as item 3123 oritem 3165 deletes that lifesteal pretty much.

Delete? It only reduces it by 40%, which when you add critical and on hit effects such as BotRK or Blood Razor, those two are completely irrelevant. That's without even mentioning that those two can't be built on half the champions and still be viable.

Mechakaiser1 votes

Path of Exile did a great way to addres this. There is a life leech stat which you can get with items/passives , but all characters have a cap to how much life they can steal each second, 20% of their max HP. There are specific items and passives that allow you to increase that cap, or completely nullify it (with the drawback of losing all forms of life regenenartion). But it is done in a way where you either invest a lot of resources to make leech viable, or you have leech as a secondary defensive layer, coupled with armour or whatever.

k wìx1 votes

I feel like this is less of an argument against lifesteal vs spellvamp and more of an argument about how much you want the 'carry' to be able to 'carry' a game, because lifesteal is one of the biggest reasons adcs become 'unbeatable' when it comes to late game.

If you put a cap on it, you really, really just put a huge nerf on the entire ADC role. I'm not sure I like that. Not to say that I dont think ADCS are in a really strong spot currently, but honestly? I think there are better answers to this problem.

ObscureParticle2 votes

[{quoted}](name=k wìx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UQAyh4ww,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-06-25T20:54:08.851+0000)

I feel like this is less of an argument against lifesteal vs spellvamp and more of an argument about how much you want the 'carry' to be able to 'carry' a game, because lifesteal is one of the biggest reasons adcs become 'unbeatable' when it comes to late game.

If you put a cap on it, you really, really just put a huge nerf on the entire ADC role. I'm not sure I like that. Not to say that I dont think ADCS are in a really strong spot currently, but honestly? I think there are better answers to this problem.

ADCs are supposed to do damage, supports are supposed to provide the CC, healing, shielding, etc to keep them alive. Right now ADCs are facetanking anything and won't die. Even if brought to low health, they go back to full HP in 2 secs, and if they die, now there is the new Guardian Angel on top to save them, Bloodthirster to shield them, and Death's Dance to make them inmune to burst damage.

There are too many damage items with defensive stats and too much life steal. Glass cannon builds now days are more durable mid-late game than full tank builds.

k wìx1 votes

{quoted}

ADCs are supposed to do damage, supports are supposed to provide the CC, healing, shielding, etc to keep them alive.

Generally yes, but your missing the 'carry' portion of the namesake. They are also intended to 'carry' the game. This essentially is a throwback to the original dota - it means someone starts out weak but becomes very strong as the game progresses.

Right now ADCs are facetanking anything and won't die. Even if brought to low health, they go back to full HP in 2 secs, and if they die, now there is the new Guardian Angel on top to save them, Bloodthirster to shield them, and Death's Dance to make them immune to burst damage.

I mean yes, this is arguably the biggest problem with ADCs right now - I'm not disagreeing with you that there is a problem, I just don't think your solution is optimal.

There are too many damage items with defensive stats and too much life steal. Glass cannon builds now days are more durable mid-late game than full tank builds.

This is just not accurate, sorry. There is absolutely no way you will convince me of this.

ObscureParticle1 votes

This is just not accurate, sorry. There is absolutely no way you will convince me of this.

Death's Dance - 30% damage buffer Phantom Dancer - 12% damage reduction Guardian Angel - Armor, revive. Maw of Malmortius - Magic Resist, anti-magic burst Shield Bloodthrister - Shield Mercurial Scimitar - Magic Resist, debuf passive

Ah O Yeah Harder1 votes

Its stupid, a Fiora level 14, I shit you not, a fiora was in my lane, autod a minion, and got 352 health back. I was like wtf is this bs. I got her down to 25% health and she got it all back after autoing a minion 3 times.

So I back and buy a Mortal Reminder, and yet shes still getting like 150 hp back per auto.

Automated Riven1 votes

That's impossible. I wanna see a video of that.

Protokai1 votes

Solorenektononly has a video :D 274 for normal autos and https://youtu.be/4EjdrR4yTPo?t=30m still doesnt have DD so it could be more also doesn't have visage

Automated Riven1 votes

Ya in that video at level 14 fiora was hella fed and still only had 300 ad with 20% lifesteal. 1 auto gives her like 80 health. with a sheen prock maybe like 130. This is 200+ damage short of 352.

Protokai1 votes

yeah this is the only circuimstance the 300 health heals kick in is 30 mins in fiora

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