40% CDR on Leona: Yay or Nay?

darkdill·Apr 21, 2015·7 votes·3,579 views

When you have 40% CDR on Leona, her lockdowns and rapid applications of Sunlight can make her really threatening in a teamfight. And a 36 second cooldown on her ultimate? Awesome for long-term fights over Baron or Dragon. However, most players insist on Banshee's Veil and Randuin's Omen instead of Frozen Heart or other CDR items. I can see their reasoning due to Randuin's technically giving more EHP and its slowing active being useful for initiates, but at the cost of 20 CDR? I say OUCH.

But that's just my opinion. What's yours?

#My usual build (Support)

Situationals

30 Comments

JedenVojakApr 21, 20154 votes

Yeah 40% CDR is nice and all, but I don't really know where you fit that in your build.

I mean she doesn't really get any CDR in her core items item 3078 item 3046 item 3031 , and zerkers are probably still better than ionians.

Teridax68Apr 21, 20153 votes

More CDR means more stuns, snares and slows to throw around, so I'd definitely be on board with that. However, I think the more important question here is whether or not 40% is going to benefit you the most: if you have a fed assassin who needs to be shut down with hard CC as frequently as possible, then item 3110 over item 3143 might be preferable, but on the other hand, if you have a fed who's melting you as soon as you get close, you may want to get item 3102 first. While there are definitely items and builds you will pick more often for any given champion, having as much flexibility as possible with respect to every match will give you more of an edge. I completely agree that min-maxing a champion can feel awesome, just as it can be irritating to have to build a champion sub-optimally, but often that's going to be necessary in order to counter-itemize properly against the opposing team.

darkdillApr 21, 20151 votes

Never said you had to get 40% CDR immediately. I just feel that you should always have 40% when you have a finished build.

By all means, go Randuin as a third/fourth item if it'll work. But most players I see never get Frozen Heart at all.

Teridax68Apr 21, 20151 votes

But that's the thing: item 3110 and item 3143 occupy the same niche (autoattack-based DPS reduction), so building both would be redundant unless you're up against a really fed marksmen or MasterYi / Yasuo / other melee carry. In most other cases, building both would just set you back, even if you do end up maxing on CDR. Even if you're looking at the sixth item in your build, trying to max out on cooldown reduction may not be your best option, even if it's very tempting.

I think the other issue here is that Randuin's ends up being flat-out better at tanking than Frozen Heart in most cases, since for 30 armor less it also blocks some magic and even true damage too, which is why it's almost always picked instead of the alternative option. Frozen Heart is likely better if you're not the main tank (e.g. a bruiser top laner alongside a tank jungler), but I think it would likely be more attractive if mana itself were made a more interesting stat: right now, it's mostly overlooked, so when people look at FH they just see 100 armor, 20% CDR and a 15% slowed AS aura, which isn't bad at all, just not as good as Randuin's.

PartholonianApr 21, 20151 votes

But when does a support get a finished build? Or a third full item? (I mean, unless you're counting Face as a full item. Or boots.)

I think the desirability of Frozen Heart or Aegis depends a lot on team comp, but IMO, CDR is definitely an attractive stat on Leona if you aren't already capped on it.

redniwediSApr 21, 20153 votes

If you can work it into your build without sacrificing anything I can't think of a good reason why you wouldn't want more lockdown. That said you often have to sacrifice stuff like that in order to properly counter build.

FredartApr 21, 20152 votes

Or, you could go ad leona and own any top fight.

smaktaApr 21, 20152 votes

just dont play that no skill op freelo champ or u will get 9 reports everygame.

Hard4HamstersApr 21, 20151 votes

I prefer FH over Randuin's on Leona. At least at first. I may pick up Randuin's later but I feel more effective with the extra CDR. Along with Face of the Mountain and Locket, I have max CDR. Finishing up the build with Righteous Glory, Randuin's, Warmog's, or Banshee's depending on the situation. Due to the limited item space for supports (wards, Sightstone, Gold income), I think it's better to grab items that will give you the most for the item slot and that's why people will go Randuin's over FH. I don't see anything wrong with going for a Frozen Heart. It still gives you resistances and CDR which will be really useful for Leona. If the enemy team is running a lot of AD, it can be better than Randuin's, particularly because it is 400 gold cheaper. On the other hand, if they are running a lot of magical damage, Banshee's, Warmogs, or Aegis may be better to rush, even if they don't give CDR.

Nin10do0014Apr 21, 20151 votes

With 40% CDR, you could probably use your ult to wave-clear!

AdaloreApr 21, 20151 votes

I like having 40% by late game when I need to peel more than a single tank off of my adc...dis meta yo.

khorneyApr 21, 20151 votes

Yay

Earl EulrichApr 21, 20151 votes

Just ask yourself two questions:

how impactfull am I when all my Abilities are on CD?
do i survive long enough with a different build (and won´t a higher uptime on w make me tankier to begin with)?

NorthernDruidApr 21, 20151 votes

5% from masteries and then get item 3025 for more damage output an silly amounts of lockdown.

The last 5% aren't that important.

junglerboy16Apr 21, 20151 votes

The last 5% is actually the most impactful 5%.

CDR is an exponential stat multiplier, meaning the more you have the more it multiplies with itself. The difference between 35% CDR (53% DPS+CC increase) and 40% CDR (66.67% DPS+CC increase) is in fact bigger than the difference between 0% CDR (0% increase) and 10% CDR (11% increase).

NorthernDruidApr 21, 20151 votes

Huh, I re-examined the way I was thinking of it and... apparently the math behind my basis for stuff didn't work out the way I thought.

Interesting.

In general though, the last 5% are often not that important, because getting CDR is often more about breaking a certain flat CD amount on your abilities so that you can cycle them more regularily or keep an effect going more continously, than absolute maxing your potential.

Not always the case, but for Leona at least, she can do without the full 5%.

There are good reasons for why I'm annoyed by the lack of 5/15% CDR items in the game though. one of them being that I can't afford CDR runes yet.

Can you go more in depth as to how you arrive at those numbers? I'm really intrigued, especially after seeing my own math show me i'm wrong.

junglerboy16Apr 21, 20152 votes

The math works like this: 0% CDR means 100% full cooldowns, which also means a baseline of 100% standard damage/CC output.

10% CDR means 90% full cooldowns, and then you divide your 100% base damage output by 90%, or 100/.9, which equals 111.11%, or a net increase of 11.11% damage and CC output.

Jumping up to 40% CDR, you have 60% full cooldowns, which means your 100% damage output is divided by 60%, which equals 100/.6, which equals 166.67%, or a net increase of 66.67% damage and CC output.

I made a graph for you too (I threw in 45-60% CDR as well even though they aren't attainable just because at that point the shape of the graph becomes more visible):

NorthernDruidApr 22, 20151 votes

Cool! Thanks for explaining! :D

LankPantsApr 21, 20151 votes

Have you tried CDR runes and masteries? You can run 6 CDR blues and 4 points in offence to get 10% CDR so you don't need as many items.

junglerboy16Apr 21, 20151 votes

I always try to cap CDR on tanks, because CDR increases your damage and CC output exponentially. Every additional 10% increases your total damage by even more than the last 10% (40% CDR increases your total DPS and CC output by 66.67%, where only 30% increases your DPS and CC output by only 43%).

If you are going for a CDR build, go all the way to 40% to get the most from it. More CC uptime, more damage from abilities, and more epic solar flare catches FTW!

Extreme TrollerApr 21, 20151 votes

40%cdr is good but i prefer the magic pen build. You either go 40%CDR tank, or magic pen burst 0% cdr btw.

IGotScuttleCrabsApr 21, 20151 votes

What's your magic pen burst build?

Honestly, my favorite build is item 3068 item 3075 item 3001 for total F-U enemy adc. Stick to them long enough while they focus you and they'll kill themselves. The AS is to increase the thornmail and sunfire damage while getting a little extra damage plus some MR. Also helps other ap champs on team. I then like to follow up with item 3279 item 3190 item 3800
I end up with 30 cdr after masteries. Sometime run runes to reach the 40% An effective mix of armor, mr, and health. Team utility in Abysal, Rightous, and Locket. And the enemy adc will fear me.

Edit: I'd like to note this is when I get to play top Leona. Support Leona I swap something for sightstone. Depending on enemy team comp. (Heavy ad/ap, destroyed enemy adc so bad I don't thornmail, or if another owner gets Locket)

Extreme TrollerApr 21, 20151 votes

{quoted}

What's your magic pen burst build?

Honestly, my favorite build is for total F-U enemy adc. Stick to them long enough while they focus you and they'll kill themselves. The AS is to increase the thornmail and sunfire damage while getting a little extra damage plus some MR. Also helps other ap champs on team. I then like to follow up with
I end up with 30 cdr after masteries. Sometime run runes to reach the 40% An effective mix of armor, mr, and health. Team utility in Abysal, Rightous, and Locket. And the enemy adc will fear me.

Edit: I'd like to note this is when I get to play top Leona. Support Leona I swap something for sightstone. Depending on enemy team comp. (Heavy ad/ap, destroyed enemy adc so bad I don't thornmail, or if another owner gets Locket)

same, item 3068 item 3075 item 3001 is obviously core build.

The 3 others item, is completly different from mine tho. i prefer item 3020 so thornmail and spell hit harder. item 3151 because of hp ap and mpen, good synergy with sunfire and thornmail item 3027 because of hp ap but also because of mana

i have less mr than you but i run mr/lvl on blue. i still have nice 140 mr or 150mr at lvl 18 if i remember well.

i wish i had 40% cdr, but it's simply too hard to have both mpen and cdr. and 30mp +8mpen (rune) +20mr reduc. is almost like 60mpen it really hit like a truck, and thornmail deal insane damage even if adc have mr rune.

The Bíg TicketApr 21, 20151 votes

Get 10 percent from runes and Masteries, then get Face of the Mountain, Locket and IBG.

JFRANKSTAApr 21, 20151 votes

item 3143 > item 3110 omen make you a lot more solid and gives a slow which can be huge if you use it right, frozen heat is still good but its situational at best for most champs, also i don't think locket is that good 20 mr isnt gonna save your adc/mid from most burst mages, if you want cdr go for item 3401 10% item 3025 10% item 3065 10% x6 cdr/lvl glyphs because mr glyphs are overrated in bot lane

RyvakuApr 21, 20151 votes

As Leona support player. I do recommend getting 40% cdr to stick on your opponents from getting way. You can work into it slowly.

UPfreelyApr 21, 20151 votes

what about cdr runes/boots? you can easily get 15 flat from either and as a tank i feel as if i dont need the extra uptime from mercs, by all means ill soak your important cc in teamfights.

darkdillApr 21, 20151 votes

I feel Mercury's are a necessity too because it's a tank meta, so you get CC'd by AOE CC more often. Plus the MR is always a bonus against all the Cinderhulks running around.

Slamurai JackApr 21, 20151 votes

40% CDR is definitely worth, especially when you consider that one of your abilities is your defensive steroid that also happens to scale more with bonus Armor and MR, which the CDR defensive items tend to have alot of, while lacking in health. And let's be honest, a Leona with all her skills on CD is nothing but a damage soak that can be safely ignored, while a Leona with a 4.2 second CD stun is a serious threat that needs to be dealt with. For me personally, my ideal final build for Leona is FOTM, FH, Locket, Randuins, Ruby Sightstone, and Mobis with Captain enchants. 40% CDR, a solid mix of HP, Armor, and MR, and strong initiation power with the Captain Mobis and Randuins.

BorfinApr 21, 20151 votes

CDR when you want Leona to be offensive.

If you need her as tanky as possible for one decisive all-in, CDR is not her best bet.

Depends on how often tf's are breaking out