can we have a starting magic resist item

Ben Sharpio·Oct 31, 2016·10 votes·967 views

or no

40 Comments

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20164 votes

item 1033 ?

Handy Sandy Oct 31, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UMFWWEy0,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-10-31T01:40:24.865+0000)

?

it doesn't have doran in it though :(

dunder killOct 31, 201613 votes

There is no Doran's item with armor either lol

SlythionOct 31, 20163 votes

ya but the other dorans items in this category provide a common defensive stat of health + other stats as well, whereas null-magic mantle provides nothing but magic resist which is a horrible way to start a lane

Handy Sandy Oct 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

There is no Doran's item with armor either lol

item 1054

EedatOct 31, 20164 votes

with armor

#armor

Handy Sandy Oct 31, 20161 votes

{quoted}

nvm i look like an idiot now xD

YumaS2AstralOct 31, 20162 votes

Doran's Shield used to have armor, though

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20161 votes

lol

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrTkOEtCVFY

SlythionOct 31, 20163 votes

extremely cost inefficient...

it's 450 gold (so basically you start with item 1033 and item 2003 1x) for purely 45 magic resistance

the two other starting items that cost 450 ( item 1055 item 1054 ) not only provide a base stat of health, one of them provides lifesteal + ad while the other provides regen and damage mitigation as well

so ya, null magic mantle is completely cost inefficient to be considered a starting item

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20161 votes

never said it wasnt... but you can start it... and it will runes and base mr of 30 to start game you should have what 87 mr and you get it cuz you are vs alot of ap damage and you are gonna build into another item not like you are gonna sale the item later ... so its not wasted gold so it leads you into a item 3211 item 3155

never said it was ideal... never said it was good to do... just simply made the statement you can start with it cuz of the gold cost

SlythionOct 31, 20161 votes

The implied word in his title was

"can we have a viable (or decent) mr starting item"

so you could start null-magic mantle, but it's just not decent compared to the dorans items which still don't solve the problem that you don't have a decent starting item against ap users

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20161 votes

actually hp of any kind is good vs ap champs

and if you know you are vs alot of ap damage or early burst via ap then you should have a rune page to play vs that...

like maybe hp seals... and mr blues

so ideally starting item 1054 would be best... it gives 80 hp , regen, and it blocks 8 damage from spells and autos from champions

SlythionOct 31, 20161 votes

and that's what you would usually go, wheras vs ad you can start:

ad you can specifically build against it with item 1029 while having 3 pots to sustain and a start on your first item

you can't do that with item 1033 so you are forced into item 1054 which only blocks 8 dmg from single target spells/autos

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20161 votes

8 damage plus the regen with the 80 hp makes it alot harder for a spell at lvl 1 to kill you ...

SlythionOct 31, 20161 votes

Starting items are rarely for level 1, they are often relevant up to even level 12...well past the "spells are generally harmless" stage

and the point here is that there is no diversity like there is against ad lane opponents. Either it's item 1054 or a damage start

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20161 votes

take item 2033 take item 1028 there all kinds of ways to start

SlythionOct 31, 20161 votes

but none that are clearly/solely designed to be against AP

besides, corrupting potion isn't a universally good starting item

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20161 votes

and there is no starting item solely designed to be against AD

SlythionOct 31, 20161 votes

this all boils down to:

item 1029 + item 2003 3x vs item 1033 + 1x

you get more mr from item 1033 but that extra mr is not optimal compared to the sustain from 2 extra pots in terms of early game as a starter item, making it a less optimal path against AP than cloth is against AD

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20161 votes

item 1054 hp, regen and blocks damage from autos and spells

dunder killOct 31, 20163 votes

You're neglecting that item 1033 can actually build into other items though. Doran's items can't.

oSEXYPLATYPUSoOct 31, 20161 votes

i stated that ...

SlythionOct 31, 20163 votes

so through that statement you are comparing it to it's real equivalents:

item 1036 (100 gold less expensive and provides ad) and item 1029 (100 gold less expensive and provides armour)

both of which are designed the exact same way as item 1033 except are simply less expensive, so you can start with 3 healthpots (opposed to just 1 with null-magic mantle) and makes them viable starting items (both of which I start with frequently, I actually prefer these two starts over item 1055 or item 1054 because they can be built into items)

EedatOct 31, 20163 votes

item 1029 : 15 armor

item 1036 10 AD

item 1033 25 MR

SlythionOct 31, 20161 votes

ya but that 25 mr is not necessary in the early game when you don't have much hp. You're sacrificing tons of early sustain through pots for a stat that can't even be used efficiently yet as a starting item

DeathTheHorsemanOct 31, 20164 votes

Start with Ruby + 2 pots.

Recall at 800 gold to buy

item 3211

Proceed to laugh at enemy mage as he tickles you.

Handy Sandy Oct 31, 20161 votes

I don't even think you need it since doesn't magic resist come from abilities and not autoattacks? It's not like someone is going to have the mana to kill you or do a bunch of damage at early levels.

SlythionOct 31, 20161 votes

Take a look at the top 3 top laners who do AP damage: Kennen Rumble Vladimir

none of them use mana as a resource and all 3 are able to harrass at early levels.

WoonStruckOct 31, 20162 votes

Vlad can't harass well at early levels with magical damage at all.

You take a Doran's Shield and build it into a Cowl, GG you win laning. Nothing he can do about it.

Laning against Vlad is your match-up to lose.

RequiemsfireOct 31, 20163 votes

Health is better early on than resistances either way.

WoonStruckOct 31, 20161 votes

That depends on how many potions you can buy with your start.

Considering potions offer 150 effective health, not including innate regen time, that's a lot more effective health during laning if you start cloth3.

This is also why boots4 is such a common start on champs with poor early games.

However, as the majority of champs, boots4 ends up better than cloth3 vs riven because you don't want to be in range of her at all early on. You want to bait her Q so she pushes and you can farm safely in front of your turret until she can't 100-0 you. Also helps you to get to CS unpunished more often, and chase better if someone ganks her.

RequiemsfireOct 31, 20161 votes

What I'm referring to is what's better default health or resistances. If you want a magic resist/armour starting items that's cool but they're just better off giving a buff Doran's shield which gives health and sustain throughout the entire time it remains in your possession. The usefulness of health potions is sorely dependent on the number of potions which is just relative to the cost of the item.

ErockandrollOct 31, 20162 votes

Null magic mantle is 25 MR, which can be thought of as 25% effective HP against magic damage. Starting HP would probably fall between 450 and 700 for most champs. (Depending on your class) so 25% is 112-175 effective HP against magic damage. In most cases, a Ruby Crystal would serve you better, which has 150 HP at 50 GP less. A corrupting potion will give you 125 HP regen on 3 charges, comparing that to the MR from Magic mantle, it's no contest.

This all in mind, I Kinda doubt that Riot will add a MR starting item. We don't really have one for Armor (Cloth and pots arn't that effective.) but also since we start with MR higher than our Armor. MR is decent in the Early stages of the game. You get 30 MR base on just about every champion. (where if you buy an HP item. your base item gives that HP purchase 30% effective HP against magic damage)

WoonStruckOct 31, 20161 votes

Let's be honest. A starting MR item could make mid incredibly diverse.

Or make it only assassins.