https://i.imgur.com/azl0ho1.png
I have around 1k mastery points on Garen. I laned against a Yasuo with 204,119 points, M7. I built pretty much at random. I currently have a broken hand. This is the result.
Tell me again that Garen isn't broken. Tell me, and explain to me how.
Super Sandmanne5 votesTypical "my team" yasuo lmao
Archangel Diablo1 votesi lol'd
Just the Lip4 votes[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UIz9u1ct,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-12T01:11:47.819+0000) I currently have a broken hand.
Yasuo now has a broken hand and monitor.
Tr4shB4NSYST3M2 votesIf yasuo plays foolishly a garen can utterly dumpster him, looks like thats what happened here.
Zero Shingetsu1 votesIf yasuo plays foolishly a garen can utterly dumpster him, looks like thats what happened here.
Kayle came at me and died four times too. Three of those times, I also got Yasuo.
Spicy Rice2 votesI mean, garen can just dumpster yasuo in general. Not because garen is op, but because yasuo is honestly pretty bad into a lot of melee matchups. He has mage levels of base stats/per level gain, and next to no base damage. Anyone with decent armor and hp gain per level can smash him level 4 onwards unless the yasuo really knows the matchup
NemeBro2 votes[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UIz9u1ct,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-12T01:11:47.819+0000)
https://i.imgur.com/azl0ho1.png
I have around 1k mastery points on Garen. I laned against a Yasuo with 204,119 points, M7. I built pretty much at random. I currently have a broken hand. This is the result.
Tell me again that Garen isn't broken. Tell me, and explain to me how.
You're a bronze player in bronze-tier games. Your games don't matter.
Zero Shingetsu1 votesYou're a bronze player in bronze-tier games. Your games don't matter.
Technically, my MMR is low gold (according to all the high silvers and low golds in my games). I don't play ranked, so you can't really go by OP.GG. But you know, details.
While the desperate grasping at net cred isn't lost on me, and I sincerely hope you won some with someone, somewhere... Stepping back and looking at industry trends speaks in contrast to your statement.
In each tier of competition, only a certain number of individuals can exist. As one player rises, another must fall. Diamond players are diamond because they defeated hordes of other players. Thus, the majority of players will exist in the lower rungs of the game's ranking system. Don't believe me? According to League of Graphs, Gold, Silver, and Bronze players account for 82.47% of the rank distribution in the game. And that's just among players who bother with ranked at all.
Further, the majority of players in any mainstream game, according to statistics gathered by Sony, Namco, Gree, Nettoge, and active observation of literally any MMORPG ever, are what you Americans refer to with disdain as "casuals".
According to some of those same studies, those who rise to the top in such a fashion generally don't care about "fluff". They have a goal. They want to be the best, they want to top the charts, and nothing else matters. Thus, they tend to set aside cosmetic things like skins and pets.
Compiling the data from all these studies where available, the average player who's most interested in reaching the top is only 23% likely to value "cash shop" items as one of his top three concerns, and only 45% consider such things worth buying at all.
Conversely, an impressive 81% of players who value climbing the least value cosmetic items as one of their top three interests in a game's offerings.
Now assuming that holds even remotely true for League... Guess how Riot makes most of its money? You know, the thing they use to run their servers and keep the game going? Skins, icons, cosmetics, and other non-mechanical merchandise. In other words, players like me who literally just don't care how high we climb, who don't bother even looking at another player's rank... We're most likely to buy skins and such. (Not me, though. I give Riot my money VERY sparingly, but that's not for lack of interest in skins as a concept.) We're the ones primarily fueling the game.
Lose the interest of the lower-tier players, and all you have left are Platinum and Diamond players who currently make up exactly 14% of the game, and the Challenger Circuit, which is taking more money from Riot than it's giving. Speaking of pro players taking money, if a good chunk of that 82.47% of players lose interest in the game, who's paying for LCS tickets to pay the winnings? Maybe Riot doesn't put up the money for the prize pot, I'm not certain. But I'm pretty sure they spend money on broadcasting. For some reason.
So yes, my games do matter. I make up the plebian segment of the League population. Lose enough people like me, and the game no longer has an infrastructure to rely on.
NemeBro2 votes[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UIz9u1ct,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-04-16T03:37:10.428+0000)
Technically, my MMR is low gold (according to all the high silvers and low golds in my games). I don't play ranked, so you can't really go by OP.GG. But you know, details.
While the desperate grasping at net cred isn't lost on me, and I sincerely hope you won some with someone, somewhere... Stepping back and looking at industry trends speaks in contrast to your statement.
In each tier of competition, only a certain number of individuals can exist. As one player rises, another must fall. Diamond players are diamond because they defeated hordes of other players. Thus, the majority of players will exist in the lower rungs of the game's ranking system. Don't believe me? According to League of Graphs, Gold, Silver, and Bronze players account for 82.47% of the rank distribution in the game. And that's just among players who bother with ranked at all.
Further, the majority of players in any mainstream game, according to statistics gathered by Sony, Namco, Gree, Nettoge, and active observation of literally any MMORPG ever, are what you Americans refer to with disdain as "casuals".
According to some of those same studies, those who rise to the top in such a fashion generally don't care about "fluff". They have a goal. They want to be the best, they want to top the charts, and nothing else matters. Thus, they tend to set aside cosmetic things like skins and pets.
Compiling the data from all these studies where available, the average player who's most interested in reaching the top is only 23% likely to value "cash shop" items as one of his top three concerns, and only 45% consider such things worth buying at all.
Conversely, an impressive 81% of players who value climbing the least value cosmetic items as one of their top three interests in a game's offerings.
Now assuming that holds even remotely true for League... Guess how Riot makes most of its money? You know, the thing they use to run their servers and keep the game going? Skins, icons, cosmetics, and other non-mechanical merchandise. In other words, players like me who literally just don't care how high we climb, who don't bother even looking at another player's rank... We're most likely to buy skins and such. (Not me, though. I give Riot my money VERY sparingly, but that's not for lack of interest in skins as a concept.) We're the ones primarily fueling the game.
Lose the interest of the lower-tier players, and all you have left are Platinum and Diamond players who currently make up exactly 14% of the game, and the Challenger Circuit, which is taking more money from Riot than it's giving. Speaking of pro players taking money, if a good chunk of that 82.47% of players lose interest in the game, who's paying for LCS tickets to pay the winnings? Maybe Riot doesn't put up the money for the prize pot, I'm not certain. But I'm pretty sure they spend money on broadcasting. For some reason.
So yes, my games do matter. I make up the plebian segment of the League population. Lose enough people like me, and the game no longer has an infrastructure to rely on.
That's a very long post to say "Riot should cater to bad players like me because we're the majority of the playerbase".
But too bad friend. If Riot catered to terrible players and balanced around them, what would be the point of climbing into higher elo?
Oh, but people in low elo don't care about that? Then why would they care about balance? =)
You can lie to yourself, but you can't lie to me.
Zero Shingetsu1 votesThat's a very long post to say "Riot should cater to bad players like me because we're the majority of the playerbase".
But too bad friend. If Riot catered to terrible players and balanced around them, what would be the point of climbing into higher elo?
Oh, but people in low elo don't care about that? Then why would they care about balance? =)
You can lie to yourself, but you can't lie to me.
We care about balance because a game where one side bowls over the other with little effort isn't fun. We're here to have fun. I make my money playing other games. I come here when I want to relax and unwind and just have a good time. It's hard to have a good time when there are champions that can literally be played with one hand.
The thing about high elo is that you can find ways to get the best out of a thing balanced for low elo if you're good. If you're not that good, you're going to have a hard time getting the best out of a champion balanced for high elo play.
Thanks for pointing out why LCS has ruined the MOBA genre, though. Your post gets the essence of it: Riot ignores the vast majority of its playerbase so its high-level games can stay competitive. No other professionally-played game I know of does this. What Riot is doing would be like enforcing the rules, basket height, and court size of the NBA on every pickup game played in every rec center or on every blacktop in the world.
NemeBro1 votes[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UIz9u1ct,comment-id=0008000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-16T04:44:17.349+0000)
We care about balance because a game where one side bowls over the other with little effort isn't fun. We're here to have fun. I make my money playing other games. I come here when I want to relax and unwind and just have a good time. It's hard to have a good time when there are champions that can literally be played with one hand.
The thing about high elo is that you can find ways to get the best out of a thing balanced for low elo if you're good. If you're not that good, you're going to have a hard time getting the best out of a champion balanced for high elo play.
Thanks for pointing out why LCS has ruined the MOBA genre, though. Your post gets the essence of it: Riot ignores the vast majority of its playerbase so its high-level games can stay competitive. No other professionally-played game I know of does this. What Riot is doing would be like enforcing the rules, basket height, and court size of the NBA on every pickup game played in every rec center or on every blacktop in the world.
No, that isn't how it works friend.
If a champion does well against bad players, then you can beat him by getting better at the game.
If a champion is downtuned to be in line against bad players despite having a kit that naturally punishes them, then they are going to be useless dogshit once you do get better at the game and climb.
I mean, more than he already is. Garen is already bad in high elo. You would have him be made worse so he is bad everywhere?
Zero Shingetsu1 votesNo, that isn't how it works friend.
If a champion does well against bad players, then you can beat him by getting better at the game.
If a champion is downtuned to be in line against bad players despite having a kit that naturally punishes them, then they are going to be useless dogshit once you do get better at the game and climb.
I mean, more than he already is. Garen is already bad in high elo. You would have him be made worse so he is bad everywhere?
If that's the way you intend to put it, then... Frankly, yes.
The way I would put it, however, is to balance him so that he's neither too strong nor too weak against bad players - and by this I mean rework his kit if necessary - and then pretty much nothing changes in high elo since, as you say, he's already "bad".
"Why plug the leaks in the upper decks? The lower decks are already flooded!" Because if you plug the leaks in the upper decks, and least someone benefits.
J4 Ulted Mexico1 votesI need a replay to see this Yasuo dying to phantom dancer Garen.
hrooza dota 1 votesjust saying, that yasuo is iron 4 and got smashed by a katarina who seem to be a returning player (only one game on op.gg of that kat).
Critmaster Garen1 voteswhat if the yasuo had both hands broken?
Zero Shingetsu1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UIz9u1ct,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-04-12T07:09:45.736+0000)
what if the yasuo had both hands broken?
If my mother had wheels, she'd be a bike.
Critmaster Garen1 votes[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UIz9u1ct,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-04-12T15:55:48.972+0000)
If my mother had wheels, she'd be a bike.
that doesnt even make sense here.
Zero Shingetsu1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UIz9u1ct,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-04-12T16:21:25.818+0000)
that doesnt even make sense here.
The message is that we can't dwell on what ifs. Garen is still busted. You should know that, being Critmaster Garen. Crit Garen was all the rage once upon a time for a reason.
Critmaster Garen3 votes[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UIz9u1ct,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-13T08:09:27.572+0000)
The message is that we can't dwell on what ifs. Garen is still busted. You should know that, being Critmaster Garen. Crit Garen was all the rage once upon a time for a reason.
literally no one but yourself thinks that.
get gud.
Zero Shingetsu1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UIz9u1ct,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-15T22:56:01.559+0000)
literally no one but yourself thinks that.
get gud.
For this to be true, to be literally true, you must first know the opinion of every single one of League's x-million players. Want to try phrasing that again?
(Also, this post was about me going 11/0 with Garen despite having no flash/ghost, not buying "Garen items", and playing against a Yasuo while I had a broken hand. Sounds like I'm a pretty good Garen, if he's truly not broken.)
ZephyrDrake1 votes[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UIz9u1ct,comment-id=000500000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-16T00:35:56.077+0000)
For this to be true, to be literally true, you must first know the opinion of every single one of League's x-million players. Want to try phrasing that again?
(Also, this post was about me going 11/0 with Garen despite having no flash/ghost, not buying "Garen items", and playing against a Yasuo while I had a broken hand. Sounds like I'm a pretty good Garen, if he's truly not broken.)
Oh noes you beat a bad player! Want to provide actual proof? I won my first game as lux support with a 10/0/10 score... I guess that means lux is the best support ever! Or it could mean my opponents played horrible since the very next game I went 0/7/3 as lux. One game simple size literally says nothing
Critmaster Garen2 votes[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UIz9u1ct,comment-id=000500000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-16T00:35:56.077+0000)
For this to be true, to be literally true, you must first know the opinion of every single one of League's x-million players. Want to try phrasing that again?
(Also, this post was about me going 11/0 with Garen despite having no flash/ghost, not buying "Garen items", and playing against a Yasuo while I had a broken hand. Sounds like I'm a pretty good Garen, if he's truly not broken.)
sounds like youre just playing at shit tier mmr.
Zero Shingetsu1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UIz9u1ct,comment-id=0005000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-04-16T01:02:26.955+0000)
sounds like youre just playing at shit tier mmr.
Which is a portion of the game that is played. I'm not sure what your point is, exactly.
Critmaster Garen1 votes[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UIz9u1ct,comment-id=00050000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-04-16T03:17:33.270+0000)
Which is a portion of the game that is played.
im not sure what your point is with THIS.
if youre playing with and against players who are so terrible at this game that you can beat them with one hand, what does this have to do with champion balance?
Zero Shingetsu1 votes[{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UIz9u1ct,comment-id=000500000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-16T11:17:05.576+0000)
im not sure what your point is with THIS.
if youre playing with and against players who are so terrible at this game that you can beat them with one hand, what does this have to do with champion balance?
Because I am equally terrible, else I would not be queuing with them. The fact that I can literally beat a powerful, mobile champion with one hand using a champion I've played maybe six times in my six years or so playing League, building almost entirely at random, is a problem. Especially when you consider that my general sphere of competition (low gold to high bronze) makes up about 75% of League's player base.
hrooza dota 1 votesthat yasuo is iron 4, what do you expect
Illabethe2 votesI do. Season 7 was all about IE based Garen because his spin crit...... Fin annoying when a "Tank" 1 skills you with a crit while silenced....
Zero Shingetsu1 votesI do. Season 7 was all about IE based Garen because his spin crit...... Fin annoying when a "Tank" 1 skills you with a crit while silenced....
Exactly this. This is why I've always had problems with Garen. He doesn't have to build any damage items to do damage, and that's just... not fun. From either side of the playing field.
Quepha1 votesmastery points don't necessarily mean skill, a lot of people just go through games without realizing what it is they do right or wrong, and if this guy has 200k mastery on a champion but is hard-stuck in iron 4 then there's clearly a reason they aren't improving and it's not their choice of champion.
Zero Shingetsu1 votesmastery points don't necessarily mean skill, a lot of people just go through games without realizing what it is they do right or wrong, and if this guy has 200k mastery on a champion but is hard-stuck in iron 4 then there's clearly a reason they aren't improving and it's not their choice of champion.
This is true to a point. However, you need to achieve S... what is it, four times? Five? To achieve M7. So you have to have at least a modicum of understanding of the champion. My point was less "LOOK WHAT I DID TO THIS AMAZING YAS I SO GUD", and more that I had almost ZERO experience with Garen and I went 11/0 with a broken hand against a champion that actually matches up rather well against Garen in lane.
MSD0S1 votes[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UIz9u1ct,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-04-12T01:11:47.819+0000)
https://i.imgur.com/azl0ho1.png
I have around 1k mastery points on Garen. I laned against a Yasuo with 204,119 points, M7. I built pretty much at random. I currently have a broken hand. This is the result.
Tell me again that Garen isn't broken. Tell me, and explain to me how.
It actually looks like at the end you sold items, and rebought random ones, because the gold does not add up =)
Zero Shingetsu1 votesIt actually looks like at the end you sold items, and rebought random ones, because the gold does not add up =)
Clever catch, but I'm afraid that's not what happened.
https://i.imgur.com/i38qglh.png
It's still up on OP.GG if you want to check for yourself. I simply didn't have a need to spend a lot of the gold.
(Not sure what that sold Doran's Shield is about. I must've sold it and then undid or something.)
