Xypherous - "We'd like to shift towards a world where Aegis is more optional overall."

The Yetii Rider··3 votes·631 views
Core Defense Items Pass [5.16]

This is an interesting decision by Riot, and Xypherous, it's a noble goal. So you reduce the MR aura of Aegis of the Legion by 5, but increase the MR of Spirit Visage and Banshee's Veil by 5. That way, the end game MR of the champions who build it is the same, but the MR of the champions who don't is lower.

Here's the issue: Not every mid laner can afford to build Abyssal Scepter, and very rarely do marksmen actually build Mercurial Scimitar. The support is able to make up for this by building Aegis of the Legion. In a perfect world where everyone communicated and had a good time, strategizing together and checking with each other in chat before buying items, Aegis might not be so necessary. But that's not how things work.

Just because you have the option to build MR items as a mage or a marskmen (you really don't have the option as an AD assassin, and if the Abyssal changes go through you won't have it as an AP assassin either) doesn't mean you will. And that's the whole reason the support role exists. The support is basically someone who says "Hey, my teammates are idiots who can't itemize properly, don't buy wards, and get caught out. A lot. So I'm going to dedicate my build and my time to making sure that these guys don't drag me down to Bronze III."

Runic Bulwark was an excellent example of this. While Runic Bulwark existed, mid laners who didn't build Zhonya's were actually able to handle fights against AD assassins, and marksmen were actually able to utilize their lifesteal in extended fights.

But sure, Runic was a little over the top for a single item. It was too slot efficient and had lots of invisible power.

But the support role is all about invisible power. Shields, heals, lanterns, there are times when it is very obvious that a play you've made has saved someone's life, but more often than not (a Soraka heal in lane just before a gank, a Janna shield that prevented JUST enough damage from that minion wave to keep you alive during a tower dive) the power is unappreciated by anyone other than the support. And that's fine, because support players know what they're doing is relevant. They don't need a big flashy sign that says "Good save!" every time they do something.

Removing auras one by one is Riot's method of dealing with invisible power, but we are running out of items that allow players to build utility. Some supports don't want to build Mikael's, some don't want to build Talisman, and some don't want to buy Sightstone (they'll still upgrade their trinket, but you nerfed everyone's bases so much that they're better off buying AP to make sure their skills actually do something).

TL:DR - Aegis of the Legion will never be optional. Marksmen and mid laners don't build MR, and they need it. Please don't nerf the only MR my ADC will ever be getting.

15 Comments

Immortal Strife2 votes

I disagree and I'm and ADC main who rarely builds a. BV in over a QSS. Aegis is an item that is in all honesty is too effective, allowing one teammate to cover weaknesses for the whole team makes lower income roles like jungle and support inefficient at building AP. If you ever want to see Sona, Nami, Zilian, or Fidd support again then Aegis needs to be nerfed or, what I would prefer, removed.

The Yetii Rider2 votes

[{quoted}](name=Immortal Strife,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UHZeUlUK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-08-08T23:17:12.773+0000)

I disagree and I'm and ADC main who rarely even build and BV in preference of a QSS. Aegis is an item that is in all honesty is too effective, allowing one teammate to cover weaknesses for the whole team makes lower income roles like jungle and support ineffective at building AP.

Junglers get free magic damage added to their kits (Runeglaive procs, Cinderhulk Immolation, Devourer on-hit) and supports get utility for building AP (better heals, stronger shields, more MS).

Immortal Strife1 votes

{quoted}

Junglers get free magic damage added to their kits (Runeglaive procs, Cinderhulk Immolation, Devourer on-hit) and supports get utility for building AP (better heals, stronger shields, more MS).

All of which is rendered worthless when the whole enemy team has extra MR because one of them built one item. The bottom line is supports and junglers don't have enough income to warrant building Ap and Penetration. Removing Aegis would go a long way in bringing AP supports and Ap junglers back into viability.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Immortal Strife,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UHZeUlUK,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-08T23:26:12.963+0000)

All of which is rendered worthless when the whole enemy team has extra MR because one of them built one item. The bottom line is supports and junglers don't have enough income to warrant building Ap and Penetration.

Abyssal's Scepter is core on Diana and Elise builds Liandry's...I think Zyra builds Liandry's too and Brand definitely does. Annie gets Sorc Shoes and a Void Staff as part of her support build.

Immortal Strife1 votes

{quoted}

Abyssal's Scepter is core on Diana and Elise builds Liandry's...I think Zyra builds Liandry's too and Brand definitely does. Annie gets Sorc Shoes and a Void Staff as part of her support build.

Annie is selected because she provides an AOE stun, Elise is only now back in the meta and an Aegis absolutely shuts her down. There is no way to convince me that an item that give the 'whole' team stats is a good idea. If a player wants stats then they should have to build them.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Immortal Strife,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UHZeUlUK,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-08-08T23:40:39.148+0000)

Annie is selected because she provides an AOE stun, Elise is only now back in the meta and an Aegis absolutely shuts her down. There is no way to convince me that an item that give the 'whole' team stats is a good idea. If a player wants stats then they should have to build them.

You mean like how if a player wants vision he should buy wards or upgrade his trinket? Or if a player wants to not die he should stay close to the team, never face check, and always have Flash ready?

Supports exist because players are not perfect. Players are idiots. If supports can provide their teammates with vision, peel, and a free Flash from across the dragon pit or untargetability and a huge MS buff, then supports should be able to give them a little bit of safety against burst.

Slamurai Jack2 votes

AD assassins don't have a way to build MR? What is item 3155 then?

The Yetii Rider1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Slamurai Jack,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UHZeUlUK,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-08-09T00:40:21.040+0000)

AD assassins don't have a way to build MR? What is item 3155 then?

Subpar, that's what it is.

IcyPepper2 votes

Just because you have the option to build MR items as a mage or a marskmen (you really don't have the option as an AD assassin,

doesn't item 3156 help with that, or item 3139 as a niche?

SaltyKracka1 votes

Maw's honestly kind of shit. Even in pro games where people build Hexdrinker (rare enough), they almost never bother upgrading it into Maw until the very last item.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

doesn't item 3156 help with that, or item 3139 as a niche?

As the guy below you put it, Maw is a really awkward item, limited primarily by its immense combine cost and terrible build path. Hexdrinker is alright, but it doesn't give enough MR on its own to be viable or slot efficient.

Building Scimitar is also really awkward for an assassin unless they are super ahead (and you don't build tank when you're ahead, you build it when you're behind).

IcyPepper1 votes

I don't see it as building tank, more like bruiser.

I mean, I see your point. Personally, I've only built it when ahead (like you mentioned) and only to further snowball against cc AP champions.

LadyRenly1 votes

I've never seen anybody build Aegis before

SaltyKracka1 votes

TL;DR if you want Aegis to be more optional, you're going to have to nerf magic damage champs.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

{quoted}

TL;DR if you want Aegis to be more optional, you're going to have to nerf magic damage champs.

I wouldn't like to see that. More like a new item to replace Abyssal that mages will actually want to buy, an item that assassins would actually purchase, and an MR item that can fit into a marskman's build (Something like Spectre's Cowl, but increasing your lifesteal when you take magic damage from a champion rather than just your base regeneration).

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