Mastery Changes in PBE: Screwing over mana mages in early game?

darkdill··95 votes·6,179 views
5/18 PBE Update

Meditation will now only be available as a tier 4 mastery in support, and though it's a lot stronger there working like a Chalice of Harmony, it means that mana mages like Lux, Syndra, Ziggs, etc., no longer have that +3 per 5 mana regen early-game. That is kinda debilitating, and having 75 extra maximum mana at level 1 isn't gonna help much.

Oh, one extra spell instead of barely sustainable mana early on? How am I supposed to counter Zed by harassing him early if I can't fire more than 3 spells before a burnout? And no, Doran's Ring can't do it all, especially if you get zoned; once you're zoned, you can't counterzone because you'll manaburn!

And I thought you guys were gonna let Lux have some love with her new skin. Now you're just making her early game even worse against the meta manaless mids (Zed, Kat, etc.).

Riot, I hope these changes are also going to include some early buffs for mana mages, or they are going to get CROWDED OUT!

147 Comments

Deep Terror Nami47 votes

I'm really sorry to hear about this for Mages, but as a Support main, I'm going to steal this gif from Genova Fearbane;

http://media.giphy.com/media/FjeGBljESVAzu/giphy.gif

Please forgive me ;3

A Superb Villain17 votes

[{quoted}](name=Valkyrie Witch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UEmFkwTl,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2015-05-18T22:35:40.985+0000) Please forgive me ;3

http://24.media.tumblr.com/d2d67bb7def2a454a9246601d34f94e0/tumblr_mr5qmgz16d1s106oqo1_500.gif

I thought we had something special, supports...

Apollocliptic3 votes

LOL As another main support I have to say, I am more likely to heal, shield, or make you invulnerable OR stun, petrify, root and weaken that Zed trying to kill you

Lulu for life!

Drackolus3 votes

Don't worry - we'll take this newfound power and protect you with it. Besides, the ultimate counter to assassins are supports anyway.

Chimchompat1 votes

I've been spamming Nami games on the PBE and with just the blue support starting item I can spam W (heal) everytime it's up even when I max it first. It's nice to feel powerful as a support

Malix Farwin32 votes

Riot design feels like this to me:

wanna play mid? go mana less scrub and don't try to take your mage bot lane or we will nerf it.

Dengeden2 votes

Or maybe something along the lines of: Mana gating is supposed to be a thing ... scrub.

Nucleophilic atk11 votes

This literally did nothing to late game, where mana is not a problem. It just hurt early game MORE, where mana already is a problem. The only reason for this change was Zed wasn't seeing 100% play rate mid anymore.

Dengeden2 votes

Why would mana gating ever be a thing late game? Mages are supposed to struggle with it early game. The Athene's buff more than makes up for any nerfs to mana regen.

And ... don't mention Zed, he just got nerfed. Heck, if they buffed mana regen, you'd probably complain about how it's a LB buff. So don't even start.

Yosuke Apperu1 votes

Let's down vote this guy because his opinion is different... (by the way you got an upvote from me) anywaysss I play talon mid all the time XD especially because now ssw talon looks like an anime character.. anyways back on to topic this little guy right here item 2041 is more than enough for mana issues.. god forbid poke mages can't harass all of laning phase safely like they used to... i'm sorry.. slightly less because they usually get chalice or tear or ROA anyways, I'm glad that they're moving it down the utility tree so that it's more of (but not limited to) a support exclusive. I'll probably get downvoted into oblivion for sharing my opinion or playing talon xD

Dengeden2 votes

:^) Heh, Talon, I never really got the hang of him. Getting used to double AA resets is fun though.

God forbid poke mages can't harass all of laning phase safely like they used to.

This, just this.

DrCyanide17 votes

Yeah, this is going to hurt all of my mages. :(

Ace Access 4 votes

Annie "have you seen my meditation mastery"

my fav mage after her range is nerfed, then this, she's gonna need some anti-depressant soon

Rinky Dinky3 votes

Annie will be fine tbh. She isn't as mana dependent as... lets say Lux

kcStranger16 votes

Yeah, I pretty much agree. Said basically the same thing at basically the same time: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/6jE09oLE-meditationexpanded-mind-changes-and-mid-lane-mages

For what it's worth, if they made these changes but then increased base mana regen or lowered mana costs for the champions who most needed it, I'd be OK with that.

SgtCrispy12 votes

+8 Gold on Melee champion) each time an enemy champion is attacked. This cannot trigger on the same champion more than once every 5 seconds" Parrrley COOLDOWN: 5 Gangplank

HE'S BACK

LordForrest3 votes

When did he ever leave?

Ace Access 4 votes

he didn't, people just didn't notice him until right before he killed them :D

Vistha Kai4 votes

The unseen Parrrley is the deadliest.

Ace Access 3 votes

especially when it crits off of item 3087 passive discharge with armor pen

LordForrest2 votes

Actually, i think now would be a good time to demand the Bankplank Ultimate skin. Final Look is like Mr. Monopoly, but starts the game like a peasant. Premise for the evolving model is as he reaches certain gold milestones his status increases, resulting in a wardrobe and voice over upgrades.

Ace Access 3 votes

Gangplank "I approve of this, lets celebrate with a bottle of fine RUM"

iainB858 votes

Dang, Riot is just taking a continuous dump on classic mages this season.

FantasySniper6 votes

75 isn't enough.

120-150 seems more right.

The only champions that could possibly exploit it are Blitzcrank and Ryze. Ryze could definitely use the small buff, and Blitz wouldn't benefit nearly as much.

Volt Cruelerz6 votes

Any caster that remains in lane for long durations is going to get hit hard by this.. :(

Sire Hippington5 votes

It's not only for manamages. I often have thos 3 points on meditation on any mana user, for eaxmple sivir or pant. This change will hurt manausers all over the place, and the up to 75 mana is just poor. the buffs to the other masteries are nice, but the meditation ners are nearly like a 3mp/5 nerf for everyone.

Jungle Lux God5 votes

I did some calculations, and you get more value out of the new Expanded Mind than the old Meditation if you lane for less than 125 seconds (2 minutes 5 seconds). This applies to any given point value in Expanded Mind for the same number of points in Meditation.

This is definitely a nerf for mages if you stay longer than that in lane, but a buff if you cannot stay in lane longer than that. Which isn't really saying much because if you can't stay in lane for longer than 2 minutes then you probably shouldn't be laning there anyways.

BeatzBoyFTW4 votes

Somehow, I think this is Rito's first step into reviving the Assassin meta again. :p

kunkudunk11 votes

Which nobody wants other than assassin mains. Tanks are annoying, but the can be played around for the most part. Assassins are annoying and so much harder to deal with in solo queue.

Nucleophilic atk4 votes

I guess Zed started to see a decline in play, better nerf all mages again.

Extreme Troller3 votes

holy 1.5% mana passive ? it's a bit too much op, and support doesnt even need that mana regen lol

darkdill17 votes

You need 12 points in Utility masteries before you can get these. That means you can't go 21 in Offense if you want it.

Sire Hippington13 votes

supports need ALL the mana regen!

Sightless663 votes

This is not that significant. It takes more than 2 minutes to get the same mana from the mana regen as the 75 you'll start with. Losing out on that little regen just isn't going to make a significant difference, even if you are being zoned. You might technically be a little worse off, but not by enough to really matter. I don't think this is really going to change mana mages in any meaningful way.

Zone of Endless4 votes

{quoted}

This is not that significant. It takes more than 2 minutes to get the same mana from the mana regen as the 75 you'll start with. Losing out on that little regen just isn't going to make a significant difference, even if you are being zoned. You might technically be a little worse off, but not by enough to really matter. I don't think this is really going to change mana mages in any meaningful way.

It's pretty huge in the early game for mages. The mana regen really help them stay in lane longer

75 mana is like giving someone 1 cup of water vs constant running water(mana regen)

Sightless661 votes

More like a constant drip. I've gone with and without that mastery. It just isn't usually the thing which determines my staying power in lane. It technically helps, but it's about as small of a thing as I can think of.

Zone of Endless3 votes

{quoted}

More like a constant drip. I've gone with and without that mastery. It just isn't usually the thing which determines my staying power in lane. It technically helps, but it's about as small of a thing as I can think of.

To me it's pretty huge but maybe I'm just running different runes

Chespin20133 votes

yeah more mana problems for midlane so much fun yay the chalice buffs were awesome after the mana regen nerfs a couple of patches back but now with these new masteries its gonna be a nightmare to lane vs a zed or katarina based on how they have better sustain in lane

jjookkeerr2 votes

because 3 manaregen will hurt alot

darkdill38 votes

Early on, it does. Mages normally only have 6 per 5 seconds as a base at level 1. +3 is basically a 50% increase at level 1.

WhiteGuyWannaBe5 votes

It takes 2 minutes of regenerating mana to match the new mastery. Depending on the lane it could be a significant difference or very little.

darkdill10 votes

If you're only staying in lane for 2 minutes, you're doing something wrong or you're too far behind.

WhiteGuyWannaBe3 votes

right, but within 3 minutes or 5 minute game time it is relatively common for something major to have gone down in mid lane, resulting in backs. At a 30 mana cost this wouldn't be that significant. Of course laners will also sometimes stay to around the 10 minute mark resulting in almost a 300 mana deficit which would enormous. This also opens up the door for utility mages in mid which wouldn't be a completely bad thing. II am rather interested to see what if anything Rito does to deal with this.

UPfreely2 votes

i reallly wish that t4 mastery was a 2 pointer, you really can't afford to stuff 3 in there unless you wanna pass up something really important.

darkdill2 votes

Or you could try 0/0/30.

UPfreely3 votes

i cant really see giving up 5% cdr and 22ap or a bunch of health and some damage reduction for whats left in the support tree

Raptamei2 votes

Riot needs to stop changing masteries. Everyone gets to remake their mastery pages, champions become useless, and people don't care about masteries anyway once they're set correctly.

CoolKnightST12 votes

Meanwhile Runic Blessing unchanged...

Tis a nice day1 votes

Due to how leveling up works, flat mana can actually be quite useful as long as you're not completely draining your mana pool every time you're just about to level up.

darkdill5 votes

Unfortunately, if you want to push a Zed out of the lane, you kinda have to use a lot of your mana to do it. If you don't push him out, though, he'll stomp you once he hits level 6.

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