Why is that Riot has to nerf/buff champions? i understand them creating new ones, i understand the re-works, but i dont understand their nerfing/buffing philosophy, it seems that they keep doing it and it's never going to end, this hurts the players that play those champions.
theoretical solution: establish the identity of a champ and leave it alone, let the players balance it out.
ChargeItDownMid5 votes[deleted]
AscendedxBlade1 votesThe game isn't just going to balance itself out. Remember how well that worked out in season 1 when riot tried not to nerf shen because "the game would work itself out." Or how Riot tried not to touch Renekton to create the "renekton bar" for top lane? The champions at the top stayed at the top because players simply mastered how to exploit the overpowered champions to the point where only a handful of champions were ever picked.
Mobas simply do not balance themselves out, especially in larger mobas like league or dota where the community can figure out which champion is overpowered in 2-3 weeks and just continue to exploit them until riot is forced to apply balance patches. The strong champions will stay strong without balance patches and the player base will abuse the overpowered champions far better than they will find a way to balance the meta.
i like how you think your discribing season 1 but it sounds like season 6 where only a handful of champions are being picked?
Lioncourt061 votesreally? you are telling me that there is no counter-play to 
? or 
? or 
? what you thought was OP actually isnt, you just have to pick it's counter champ and select the right items, and apply a playstile that can compete, every champ has a weakness, and certain champs are better at that than others, the point im trying to make is that given a MOBA, players can use teamwork to solve problems, it's bad and unhealthy for Riot to keep stepping in and nerfing champs to later nerf others,
let me ask you this: by Riot recently nerfing graves/gp, is that going to solve the problem? NOPE, what was OP today, will be nerfed tomorrow, and there will be new OP champs, just wait and see, we arent going to ban graves/gp anymore, nor poppy, we are going to ban NEW op champs because Riot keeps stepping in
ChargeItDownMid3 votes[deleted]
Lioncourt061 votes'balance changes make the game incrementally better' lol you really love those meta swings then, enjoy the xin/ zed meta then, in 1-2 weeks theres going to be a new one, and another after that, i simply dont have to play this game anymore, ima look into heroes of the storm, i dont like unstable games
ChargeItDownMid4 votes[deleted]
Lioncourt061 votesall im seeing is declining LCS views, all im seeing is more and more people frustrated and unsatisfied, take your head out of the sand please and recognize there is a problem, 3 months of twitch or kyle, were there bans back then? im pretty sure twitch and kayle have counter-play... but i cant believe someone didnt solve that meta, anywho at this point, anything is better than league atm, im just trying to spark thought man, just hear me out
ChargeItDownMid3 votes[deleted]
Lioncourt061 votesyet theres 10 players every game, your point is that system failed, but look at us now, we have 130 champs, that's enough to have a healthy ecosystem out of Riot's touch, i can understand why in the past it couldnt be done, how many champs were there? 30-40? with 130 unique champs, im pretty sure those old problems wont apply anymore, we should try it at least... just think about it, the less champs you have available, the more and more 1 composition is going to stick, but if you have 130 champs.. the players can balance the game now, no more Riot dependence
cuddlykitten41 votesI'm seeing the same amount of all those things as has always been there. They have to constantly balance things because when you have 130ish champs things will swing back and forth. That is your answer. You seem to be one of those argue for the sake of arguing kind of people so I'm not going to read any response you post to this so don't waste time debating it. Why don't you go and read the shitloads of things Riot has put out explaining the very questions you're asking. Honestly, most hting people don't understand are explained in threads throughout. Maybe you should research your ideas more before you assume you are the authority on them.
PhantomGG1 votesyou demand for buffs and nerfs to no longer be a thing?
Boy this sure shows what you know about the mathematical process that is balancing a competitive video game.
Lioncourt061 votesgames can balance themselves out, you want an example? the first greatest ESport game: Starcraft: Brood War, this game is the first most successful esports game EVER, and Blizzard never balanced the game, the players used their mind to solve it's problems
Lioncourt061 voteslook up starcraft: brood war, no balance changes EVER, yet the players made the game balanced because they were given enough time to solve what they thought was OP
Void Nargacuga1 votesThat WAS my top search result. https://i.gyazo.com/b13154398573e058c4a245270b9b95a8.png
And its just an EXPANSION of a game that wasn't even required to PLAY! There where balance changes, exploits that got removed. It was FAR from perfect right out of the box. No game truly is perfect out of the box.
Lioncourt061 voteswhat balance changes did Brood War get? i speak of this one because it was the final expansion, im sure the previous ones got changed, patched but im talking about it's final one, it got 0 balance changes and it became the greates games in eSports because there were so many memorable moments that the PLAYERS made, not Blizzard
Void Nargacuga1 votesIf you want a near PERFECTLY BALANCED game go play this instead: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/30/ChessStartingPosition.jpg
Lioncourt061 voteswould you play chess if it's creator constanly patched plays? what kind of game has value if it's creators keep stepping in and nerfing?
Void Nargacuga1 votesSo do YOU know how to balance a game better then? Because I HIGHLY doubt it.
Lioncourt061 votesi have an idea, hear me out, what i know from Brood War is that when there was a meta, it would dominate for a while, but it would be so exiting, almost orgasmic when a player changes the meta by introducing a new composition, a new build, a new strategy, and so the rest of the players follow it, then the meta shifts, players can balance the game out, but you have to give them time, this is how Brood war was so special, what we perceived something is OP, is actually not, it has it's counter, everything has it's counter and weakness, but you have to let players find out... Riot is patching thinks every 1-2 weeks, that's not fun nor is it healthy
cuddlykitten42 votesCastling didn't exist in Chess originally. That began much later as a rule added in. It's still a legal move in every form of competitive Chess. So yes, yes I would still play Chess if they patched it.
cuddlykitten41 votesLol, an expansion IS a patch........
Void Nargacuga1 votesIts not required to have it to play Starcraft though right? I mean you could just have the base Starcraft 2 game and be happy.
cuddlykitten41 votesCan you have the base game? Yes, yes you can. Can you be happy with it? Apparently not. That's why everyone buys every expansion that comes out. It's also not necessary in WoW either. Yet, people buy it because without the new content you get left behind. Everyone buys all the expansions to every game they truly play as long as they can financially afford it. The difference between this and league? They're expansions (or patches as they are the same thing ultimately) are much more real time, come in smaller blocks for faster installment, are directly relevant to the game at that moment, and are FREE.
Void Nargacuga1 votesYep. So I don't see OP's argument as to how one (Starcraft: Brood Wars) correlates to the other (LoL) at all. Kinda just sounds like a unnecessary argument of comparing Apples to Oranges.
cuddlykitten41 votesYou obviously didn't read the whole thread because I'm responding to the post that the OP made directly above my post comparing the two games. Pick any game you want though. Go ahead. Take your time. FInd an oranges to oranges. Now, if what you picked was not a game made exclusively for consoles predating the last gen consoles then it is a game that gets updated or has an expansion, in several cases both. We aren't comparing apples to oranges. We're talking about fruit. Catch up, then come back.
Void Nargacuga1 votesBut you replied to me though which left me a update... Which I then replied back to...
AscendedxBlade1 votesand look at heros of the storm its starting to beat league i dont think it will but if league goes down this path look it just might
Lioncourt061 votesi think League is slowly going down, let me ask you this: would you like to figure out how to counter-play a champ you think is OP? orrr, have Riot nerf that champ when people cry enough? how healthy is it to continuously nerf/buff champions?
cuddlykitten41 votesLet me ask you this? How many times are you going to reword the same questions in one thread? You really are just here to hear yourself talk aren't you?
SuperGlide1 votesBalancing is required to keep the game fresh. Mathematically there will always be a best comp/champ/strat. This is called the meta, after awhile playing the meta gets stale which is why Riot rotates buffs and nerfs. Yeah they could just leave the game be but then there will be some champs that will never be played competitively ever. Take a look at Poppy, last season very few people wanted to play her, now she is one of the top bans. The game stays fresh this way.
Lioncourt061 voteslet me just ask you this: is it healthy for RIot to decide the meta? or should we be allowed the time to counter-play metas? for example, we had a juggernaut meta, but Riot nerfed it, would it be better if WE chose a new meta that counters the juggernaut meta? wouldnt that be great? new champions would arise to counter that meta but Riot never gave us that opportunity, instead they just waved their wand and changed the game, i dont think keeping the game 'fresh' should be done like this...
cuddlykitten41 votesNo, because then people like you would be making the calls. That's the honest truth. You would have no idea what you were doing man. Neither would I. That's why we aren't making the calls.
AscendedxBlade1 voteswhat sickens me is in season 3 we had only 3 or 4 op champs which where hard to fight but can be beaten now we have 8 to 12 op champs that ether need to be banned or your team gets steamrolled its not about when they nerf its how hard the nerf or buff swings
Lioncourt061 votesRiot is making this game unstable with their constant nerf/buff's, they need to give US time to figure out the meta, any champ played has it's counters and can be beat, no single champ can do everything, but Riot insists on disturbing the ecosystem with their constant buff/nerfs it's making the game seriously unstable
ZT Xperimentor1 votesProbably because riot struggles to have it's own design teams communicate with the community; let alone eachother to get a clear idea of what they should be doing. They have the clear problem of 'right hand is unaware of what left hand is doing', leading to them repeatedly coming across as hypocritical; both in comments and in coding, making them appear both inept & schizophrenic basically.
Lioncourt061 votesit's a cycle that's killing league, every 1-2 weeks there is a new patch that makes or breaks the meta, this is unhealthy, unfun, and wrong for a game as big as LOL
ZT Xperimentor1 votesWeird this is; they've always patched it every 2 weeks since it was beta only. But their first couple seasons were also before they got greedy with their eports, and actually tried to balance the game. Season 2 - 4 were basically the best, but as they've focused more on esports and fragmented their workforce to deal with their publicity; despite the obvious need to tend to the vastly growing community playing the game, they've ignored it. And as you said, it's been driving the game into the ground.
