If you're going to revert Kog's W rework, revert his ult change too.

L0ve Is Blue·Sep 10, 2016·63 votes·3,022 views

I miss AP kog. thx.

51 Comments

Zero Skill TankSep 10, 201613 votes

Yes pls. AP kog wasn't the best champ in League, but one of the most fun.

Lady HammerlockSep 11, 20162 votes

{quoted}

Yes pls. AP kog wasn't the best champ in League, but one of the most fun.

He is the last true Late Game Poke Mage in the game

doubleguacSep 11, 20161 votes

What about Xerath? He doesn't scale quite as well as old AP kog, but he's still late game. His ratios are all very high.

Lady HammerlockSep 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

What about Xerath? He doesn't scale quite as well as old AP kog, but he's still late game. His ratios are all very high.

Well, not necessarily true late game because he actually needs to pull a full burst combo(and his E isn't quite long range) he does scale late game but Kog maw is a true hyper scale late game poke mage

HaloDragonXSep 11, 20161 votes

Fix Rageblade too while were at it.

hhaavviikkSep 10, 201611 votes

I understand why they wouldn't want to revert the ult changes, facing AP kog`maw harassing you from 1800 range with no counterplay isn't exactly fun

DragonMastaWolfySep 10, 20164 votes

He'll lose a lot of mana quickly if he gets careless though, so that's at least worth something.

KarcistSep 10, 20163 votes

{quoted}

I understand why they wouldn't want to revert the ult changes, facing AP kog`maw harassing you from 1800 range with no counterplay isn't exactly fun

Everything outside of his W is a skillshot and he has 0 mobility. Oddly, his W is the only ability they insist on being relevant.

EpikFeederSep 11, 20161 votes

{quoted}

Everything outside of his W is a skillshot and he has 0 mobility. Oddly, his W is the only ability they insist on being relevant.

Isnt that every champion? Known for a specific ability that makes them unjique? Kass R. Leblanc W. Etc ETc Etc.

L0ve Is BlueSep 10, 20164 votes

harassing you from 1800 range with no counterplay isn't exactly fun

Zed

TotalJerkSep 11, 201611 votes

That's a bullshit comparison on so many levels.

Count ZubatSep 10, 201617 votes

Really? No counterplay? I could see it as annoying, but you know, it has quite a significant delay in which you can move out of it? Or dash away? It's like saying Illaoi has no counterplay be cause if you will stand still, her tentacles will dead you shitloads of damage.

NineTailedMysticSep 11, 20161 votes

Not every mid laner has a dash on a basic ability, not to mention the nuke and huge ass slow on his E when he's AP.

Count ZubatSep 11, 20161 votes

It has 0.6 second delay and 100 units hit radius. With just a bit of reflexes, you can easily avoid it by walking away. I agree that it's huge range can be annoying, but when it comes to counterplay, it's basicly just clicking RMB on the ground at proper time, and time window is quite long for League standards. Btw, don't forget, if he spams his ult too much, he rans oom fast as shit and he can be basically killed by anything that gets near him, well, maybe besides a support.

CuetlachtliSep 11, 20161 votes

Buy a rylais, the slow makes it so there's no way of getting out unless you have a dash or the like

NineTailedMysticSep 11, 20161 votes

.6 is long for League standards? I can understand 1.5-2s+ but .6? If he puts it right on you, likely a mage with 325-330 MS, you'd need a pretty quick reflex even for this games standards. Something like .2 with perfect ping? Later in the game when you have T2 boots and maybe a %MS item, sure, your fault for being hit by it even if its a little harsh on the damage.

If they were to revert his ult changes, which I sincerely hope they do not, they'd have to reduce its range ever to slightly from almost 2000 units or hit its damage.

JariSep 11, 20162 votes

Mentioning, by the time that AP Kog is doing a shittone of damage, you should have your tier 2 boots. So I guess it is their fault. :P

RebonackSep 10, 201610 votes

{quoted}

I understand why they wouldn't want to revert the ult changes, facing AP kog`maw harassing you from 1800 range with no counterplay isn't exactly fun

Heimer has no counter-play, guys. If you stand in the middle of his turret nest you die really fast.

L0ve Is BlueSep 10, 20164 votes

And if you are out of his tower nest he is useless as hell. Play someone who outranges him like Lux or someone who can clear his towers or play around them like Syndra Anivia and he is pretty much done.

WestwardZephyrSep 10, 20162 votes

I think that Rebonack was being sarcastic :)

RebonackSep 11, 20167 votes

{quoted}

I think that Rebonack was being sarcastic :)

This man is wise beyond reckoning.

AATTRROOXXSep 11, 20161 votes

The joke------> . . . . . . . your head

Troll for TrumpSep 11, 20161 votes

Xerath ?

NineTailedMysticSep 11, 20161 votes

Harsher mana costs until Kog ult ramps enough, much more telegraphed.

ZettoSep 11, 20169 votes

They won't. And I'll be thankful. Cause getting repeatedly Ulted from over not one but two walls for 60% of my health is not fun.

MiraweaveSep 11, 20167 votes

No. As much as I liked playing AP Kog, that shit wasn't in any way healthy.

KarcistSep 10, 20164 votes

It was such a letdown to hear they weren't reverting his ult too.

L0ve Is BlueSep 10, 20161 votes

When I heard they reverted him I thought it was all his kit and I got super hyped to play him again as hybrid/ap kog then I was like oh... K...

ABSINTHEgedSep 11, 20164 votes

AP Kog is exactly why they reworked him in the first place.

I miss him so.

Count ZubatSep 11, 20161 votes

No, they wanted to see if they can solidify his hyper carry that needs protection niche even more. As we can see, transforming Kog'Maw into gattling gun didn't do any good for neither a player playing Kog'Maw (making him less interactive than Warwick: seriously, Warwick at least needs to click 3 buttons before right clicking, with the "new" Kog, you just hit W) nor player opposing Kog'Maw (I hate playing against it, his W is just bullshit right now, so glad they're reverting it).

40glassSep 11, 20161 votes

[{quoted}](name=Lord of Iwul,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UEATh9Zg,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2016-09-11T12:58:30.690+0000)

No, they wanted to see if they can solidify his hyper carry that needs protection niche even more. As we can see, transforming Kog'Maw into gattling gun didn't do any good for neither a player playing Kog'Maw (making him less interactive than Warwick: seriously, Warwick at least needs to click 3 buttons before right clicking, with the "new" Kog, you just hit W) nor player opposing Kog'Maw (I hate playing against it, his W is just bullshit right now, so glad they're reverting it).

Riot specifically said that corki and kogmaw rework's shouldn't interfere with their AP play style. that was their intention, however, they have failed spectacularly.

ABSINTHEgedSep 11, 20161 votes

They did say that. I'm still convinced that the smoking gun here is the changes to his ult. If they weren't concerned about AP kog they wouldn't have gutted the ult the way they did.

I'm convinced the only reason he got reworked is because AP Kog started seeing professional play.

Count ZubatSep 11, 20161 votes

If they didn't like how AP Kog got popular at LCS, that could have just gutted his AP ratios instead of reworking his W the way they did (which btw, was just stupid).

Sire HippingtonSep 11, 20164 votes

Depends on how you define AP kog. I always played and still do play kog with an ap/onhit built, still getting solid burst out of Q+E+R, Great poke and waveclear but quite huge dps from W aswell. The nashor'S builts work aswell as ever.

If you refer to Ult-bot kog, then i have to say i'm really happy to never face that again. It's like faceing an URF Jhin in normal games, you constantly need to dodge poke from way out of sight range, and once rylais is completed, the first hit means you're screwed if you don't have an escape tool.

If you want to buff AP Kogmaw, useing actually his entire kit, then buff the ap ratio on his Q back to 0,7 and evt add an effec like on Lissandras Q: It applies the armor/mr debuff to the first target hit but aditionally deals it's damage in a cone behind the target aswell. This would play to his poke pattern, but he atleast would need to get into sightrange for it. Though there is one potential ultbuff i'd agree with: Let the manacost-debuff on his ult interact with cdr.

DogshítPlayerSep 11, 20161 votes

ap kog used to be more about his ult if your mixing in on hit... then its not what it was before.

ModAcademy KaynSep 10, 20163 votes

Riot has had a long problem when it comes to Siege champions. Ziggs, Xerath, and Lux are siege champions, but each of their passives encourage getting within Auto Attack Range so their opponents can actually interact with them. Kog didn't have that. His Q, Slow and R were all had more range than his Autos, and AP Kog allowed for long term siege with lots of damage with little interaction. Hell, even his W gave more range to be less interactive, making an already team reliant champ be even more powerful while being even farther away.

WeatheredSep 10, 20162 votes

However, unlike Xerath Ziggs and Lux, Kog has no hard CC. AP Kog also can't make use of his auto enhance. He's pretty vulnerable if you know how to play against him, however many people don't because he was such an off pick.

NineTailedMysticSep 11, 20161 votes

Ziggs hard CC is pathetic on a gigantic CD that he wants off CD for towers.

Kog And BallsSep 11, 20163 votes

It honestly feels like Riot just took 90% of the season to remove AP Kog from the game.

[{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=NZK9A5NP,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-09-08T22:12:45.069+0000)

Given that prior to the update, Kog'Maw was a unique and sustainable design that represented a strong long-term direction for the champion, we are partially reverting his update.

Riot thought pre-work Kog was absolutely fine, but they updated him anyway gutting his ult in the process.

Increased mana cost

Lower base damage

Lower Ap ratio

Reduced vision duration

Increased mana debuff duration

and removing the ability to poke full health targets for any reasonable damage.

Oh but at least they increased that AD ratio OHHHHH BBBABY.

Ultimately this is just Riots way of confining the champion to a single role considering after the reversion goes to live both Jungle Kog and AP Kog will be mediocre at best.

Weiner the PoohSep 11, 20163 votes

Or or or or, AP Kog was unhealthy.

Count ZubatSep 11, 20162 votes

Annoying? To some extend. Unhealthy? Pls, don't be ridiculous. I'd say they don't want to resurrect AP Kog because they just didn't intend for this playstyle to exist. They created Kog as a hyper carry ADC, AP Kog was a coincidence and with the newest trend at Riot that every existing champion should have only one viable playstyle, they can't allow AP Kog to exist (which is bullshit).

Kog And BallsSep 11, 20161 votes

The thing is Kog on release was intended to be a hybrid caster who favored AP, but had long cool downs on his basic abilities and had to rely on hitting his ult for damage which is ironic, because hyper carry ADC Kog was the play style Riot never intended but decided was the direction they wanted the champ to go.

Riot just betraying the original vision they had of Kog because it was "Unhealthy" for the game even though AP Kog's main source of damage was a skill shot with a ramping mana tax. Like what are Kog players even supposed to take away from this Papa Riot doesn't want you hitting your skill shots on people it might give them a case of bad feelings. Like you should feel bad when you get popped by skill shots I don't congratulate myself and give myself a pat on the back when I get hit by Morgana snare.

DengedenSep 11, 20163 votes

Read the post. They won't.

BisaknospSep 11, 20162 votes

[{quoted}](name=L0ve Is Blue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UEATh9Zg,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-09-10T19:20:51.608+0000)

If you're going to revert Kog's W rework, revert Yasuo's release too

BagguetteSep 11, 20162 votes

I MISS AP MF PLEASE BRING THAT BACK ;_;

SpeedphoenixSep 11, 20162 votes

dude really? ap kog is better than before (in my opinion) did you even try him? you one shot anyone (even tanks) once they get under 25% hp

HigeSep 11, 20161 votes

I'd be more inclined to ask for AD scaling on Q and W

Papa SlothySep 11, 20161 votes

this

CyberRageSep 11, 20161 votes

I'd rather they just balance him and add back the AP ratios ...

I don't understand why Riot is always trying to force champions into a single role.

They are seriously going to revert one of the actually good reworks that made the champion more fun ( except removing AP ratios for no reason ), viable in more roles and much more played. He is around 51 - 52% win ratio which in no way indicates an actually broken kit the way for example Yasuo is horribly designed and sitting at a 55% - 56% win ratio. Kog has clear counter-play, Yasuo doesn't. Why do Riot completely destroy a champion like Kog without even attempting to balance him while trying to do whatever it takes to keep Yasuo broken with his wall, infinite mobility and thousands of gold in free stats at 20 minute mark?

Count ZubatSep 11, 20161 votes