Ashe Rework (PROTIP)

Elite4Runner··1 votes·506 views

Okay, okay, I'm not a pro, but the following are my thoughts on how Critical Strike Damage Marks would impact the reworked Ashe. I was originally going to reply to a comment on an initial thread but feel like it didn't get any attention and I believe this one has some additional information that may be helpful. .. also, I was bored so I did a bit more at the end.

Ashe's critical strikes naturally deal LESS damage than the standard critical strike however, ALL of her basic attacks deal 'her' critical damage to every champion who is slowed by one of her auto attacks or abilities. Her critical strike damage deals (110 + her critical strike chance)% AD. One of the more obvious stats to utilize with this would be to build AD and critical strike chance (maybe even some attack speed) like any other carry. My question is really to identify how critical strike damage % applies to this passive.

With a full set of critical strike chance Marks, a champion gains 8.37% chance to critically strike. With a full set of critical strike damage Marks, a champion gains 20.07% of the total attack damage added to each critical strike damage.

Firstly, I am wondering if critical strike damage runes even applies to every 'crit' for Ashe, because they are not true crits in the way that other champions crit. I'm going to attempt to do some math myself, assuming that this does work. I'm also assuming in my math that no other critical chance or critical damage increases are applied to calculations.

With the critical strike chance marks Ashe's critical strikes would deal 110% + 8.37%, or just 118.37% of her total attack damage. A normal champion would deal 200% of their total attack damage, but would have an 8.37% chance of critically striking.

Ashe with critical damage marks would deal 110% + 20.07%, or 130.07% total attack damage. A normal champion would deal 220% of their total attack damage and would have to rely on champion abilities or purchased items to grant critical strike chance.

At this point, the answer to my question seems kind of obvious. Some people may have already known this, but it took this process for me to fully understand it. Ashe's passive essentially converts critical strike chance into critical strike damage. As it turns out, critical strike damage Marks cost 820 IP each, compared to the 410 IP critical strike chance Marks (200% the cost). However, the damage output with Ashe's passive makes the critical strike damage marks almost 240% more effective.

Again, this is all dependent on if the critical strike damage runes even applies to Ashe in the way I am describing. I posted this thread before the Ashe rework was made live, so it was my theory that this would be a more effective rune set to go with, but I didn't sit down and do the math until now. I do plan on purchasing these runes and trying this out, but I was hoping someone else would have done this already.

Just for fun, I wanted to go one step further. I'm going to show what Ashe's critical strike damage would be with a few different items at level 6 and assuming that she hasn't attained any other damage increasing masteries, items, or buffs. Ashe at level 6 has 62 AD

item 3031 80 damage, 20% critical strike chance, Passive: +50% critical strike damage 62 + 80 = 142(110(passive) + 20.07(Marks) + 20(IE Stat) + 50(IE passive)) 142(190.07) = 272.73 AD WOW, that's damage! Why build anything else, right? .. well lets see ..

item 3046 50% Attack speed, 35% Critical strike chance, 5% Movement speed 62(110(passive) + 20.07(Marks) + 35(PD Stat)) 62(155.07) = 96.14 AD That's decent damage without even buying a damage item. Movement speed and the passive is always great for an ADC. Plus tied with the third highest attack speed item available in the game, along side the 50% attack speed injection from your Q would make this a very useful item.

item 3087 40% Attack speed, 20% Critical strike chance, 6% Movement speed 62(110(passive) + 20.07(Marks) + 20(SS Stat)) 62(140.07) = 86.84 AD Decent little brother of Phantom Dancer for the Ashe on a budget, and the passive makes for a great pushing item.

item 3142 30 Attack damage, 15% Critical strike chance, 10% CDR 62 + 30 = 92(110(passive) + 20.07(Marks) + 15(YG Stat)) 92(135.07) = 124.26 AD Good amount of damage, armor pen, and CDR would be very useful, you'll really need to get a good engage, activate your passive and Q, get the kill, and get out. then you're fairly useless until your Ghostblade and Q are up again.

item 3078 30 Attack damage, 30 Ability Power, 30% attack speed, 10% Critical strike chance, 250 Health, 200 Mana, 8% Movement Speed 62 + 30 = 92(110(passive) + 20.07(Marks) + 10(TF Stat)) 92(130.07) = 119.66 AD Slightly less damage than Ghostblade but has more reliable attack speed and mobility. None of the other items grant any health or mana sustainability. TF also grants ability power which adds 100% damage to her Ultimate.

Now, we have 5 great items. ... Lets put them all together. Level 18 Ashe has 100 AD 100 AD(Ashe) + 80 AD(IE) + 30 AD(YG) + 30 AD(TF) = 240 AD 20(IE) + 35(PD) + 20(SS) + 15(YG) + 10(TF) = 90% critical strike chance 240( 110 + 20.07(Runes) + 90(items) + 50(IE passive)) 240(270.07%) = 648.17 AD On top of that ungodly amount of damage, a constant 140% attack speed, not counting your Q and Ghostblade's nitrous injections. You will have a good amount of movement speed boost so you almost don't really need boots, but you would do so much damage, anyone who sees you is going to run for their life. Get item 3282 and go hunting.

As I said before, I was not taking into consideration any other stats, so this math is far from perfect. I challenge someone to actually complete this build and please please please share the video with me.

3 Comments

Shahamut1 votes

I did some actual testing on this very topic. Someone put a formula up somewhere (check the lol wiki page) and it confirmed my suspicion. Here is the long and short of it:

Your critical damage runes only affect the bonus critical damage granted by building critical strike chance. Same for the bonus 50% crit damage from Infinity edge.

EX: If your only item is infinity edge, and you have no crit chance/crit dmg runes, your crit damage would be 140%. [110 base, plus (20 x 1.5)]

If you use critical chance runes for reds and quints(+14% chance), your crit damage becomes 161% [110 base, plus (34 x 1.5)]

With critical damage runes for reds and quints(+33% dmg), your critical damage becomes 147% [110 base, plus (20 x 1.83)]

Now, that of course is just with Infinity Edge and no other items. So here is a summary:

AD Runes: Best early game damage. Falls off after about 2 items complete.

Crit CHANCE Runes: Best mid game damage. Falls off after your 3rd item.

Crit DAMAGE Runes: Best late game. You will need to complete at least 3 items for this set up to best the other 2.

I can be more detailed if desired, I hope this helps you :)

Elite4Runner1 votes

I can be more detailed if desired, I hope this helps you :)

I'm definitely not saying that your incorrect, because you probably aren't. That said, I kinda wish that you were lol. I see how this could lead to some stronger late game damage, but I'm still curious of what it would mean for the early game.

At level 6 Ashe with a single item, crit chance marks and quints, then crit damage marks and quints, taking no other damage altering runes, masteries, buffs, abilities. .. etc..

item 3031 [62 + 80] x 161% [110+ (34 x 1.5)] = 228.62 [62 + 80] x 147% [110 + (20 x 1.83)] = 208.74

item 3046 62 x 159% [110 + 49] = 98.58 62 x 146.55% [110 + (35 x 1.33)] = 90.86

item 3087 62 x 144% [110 + 34] = 89.28 62 x 136.6% [110 + (20 x 1.33)] = 84.69

item 3142 [62 + 30] x 139% [110 + 29] = 127.88 [62 + 30] x 119.95% [110 + (15 x 1.33)] = 110.35

item 3078 [62 + 30] x 134% [110 + 24] = 123.28 [62 + 30] x 113.3% [110 + (10 x 1.33)] = 104.24

Now the Full game build 240 x 266% [110 + (104 x 1.5)] = 638.4 240 x 274.7% [110 + (90 x 1.83)] = 659.28

Well, .. At this point I am thinking that the word 'stronger', while by definition is true, leaves a lot to be desired. We're talking about a difference of 3690 IP for the Marks, fortunately the Quints are the same price, but a late game difference of roughly 20 damage isn't worth it. I guess it's possible that the other damage calculations that I didn't include could cause a bigger difference, but it's very unlikely that it will be significant enough to justify making this purchase.

I made a mistake in my logic before, so I guess it's possible I made one this time too. You tell me. Is this calculation an exception for the Ashe rework or is this how crit damage runes work for everyone?

Shahamut1 votes

My typical full game build: item 3031 , item 3046, item 3087, item 3072, item 3153 (Ruined king is sometimes hurricane if fed, or zephyr if I need tenacity) and boots.

So our AD is 100(base)+80(IE)+80(BT)+25(BorK)+14(masteries)= 299(x1.05)= 314 AD

Our items give us a total crit dmg for Ashe of (110+75(x1.5))=223%

So, AD Runes: (+15*1.05= roughly 16)----- 330x 2.23= 736

Crit chance runes: 314x 2.44= 766

Crit Damage Runes 314x 2.47= 776

So, as you have deduced, the damage difference is not that significant, so purchasing new runes at those prices is probably not worth it. AD will still be your best overall fit (with my build) since it will give you the strongest early game and the late game dmg difference is only about 40 dmg. Just for fun, though, lets do the same thing, but use trinity forceitem 3078 instead of bork. (5 more AD, 10% more crit)

AD runes: 335x 2.38= 797

Crit Chance: 319x 2.59= 826

Crit Damage: 319x 2.65= 845

The difference jumps from exactly 40 to almost 50 dmg. I guess its up to you to decide how valuable 40-50 dmg is. Again, that is with my build. But yeah, thats how it works.

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