Tank Junglers and AP Mids Cannot Coexist

The Yetii Rider··1 votes·675 views

Don't get me wrong, I'm ALL about some jungle diversity. I love playing tanks and you can't play very many of them top because they are immobile, poor duelists, and their mana costs are kept exorbitantly high in order to keep them in the jungle.

Since the mana regen nerf, AP Mids have been getting less popular, especially high mana cost Mids like Ziggs, Anivia and Swain. They are more dependent on blue than ever, at all stages of the game.

Tanks are expected to build mana as part of their build. That's why their costs are high and it's why their items give large chunks of mana. This keeps tanks somewhat relevant in the late game, but also ensures that even if they become unkillable they can't stay in a team fight for more than 10 seconds or risk going oom.

So there is no elegant solution here. The obvious solution of "both mid and jungle adapt with itemization or learn to manage their mana more carefully" doesn't work in practice, when Lee Sin, Zed, Katarina, and other mana less Mids/jungles remain strong players will simply choose these champions over a double blue-using team any time.

Does anyone have an idea for maybe some new items that may make it easier for tanks to give up blue?

4 Comments

The Paulrus2 votes

The problem isn't the mana gating, it's that the manaless champs don't have the same gating. They need to increase the CDs to provide better gating in that department. If you're manaless, you're going to have fairly spammable abilities. Those abilities shouldn't also be incredibly strong.

The Yetii Rider1 votes

Well you can't request nerfs to these mechanics and the entire pool of champions that use energy or no resource. I'd prefer that they just buff mana users itemization to make mana less of a problem mid-late

Sinister Snail1 votes

Velkoz item 3174

It's a champ-specific solution I like, not going to claim it solves the issue for everyone. His base damages and passive means you can afford to build CDR and mana early.

Espy Psyche1 votes

It's called either "build item 3003 as AP mid" or "tell the tank mana using jungler to build a item 3027 ".

Tanky mana-using junglers like Amumu and Sejuani love Rod of Ages. It gives them health, which makes them live longer, enough mana that they don't need blue, some sustain from the Catalyst, and AP that fuels their ability to deal damage. And pretty much anyone in the jungle that uses mana and doesn't like Rod of Ages probably likes either Frozen Heart or Iceborn Gauntlet.

As an AP mid, AP is critical to you. It's the source of everything you do. So why not build Archangel's Staff? The item provides a lot for a mage. It gives effectively infinite mana as well as a shit ton of AP once it's stacked up (plus that shield that nobody ever remembers to use). The existence of RoA just makes Archangel's Staff stronger. You don't have to be Ryze to build it. All sorts of champions sling enough spells to make it worth.

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