Kalista's ADC win rate is lower than Urgot's ADC win rate.

Toastersaot··37 votes·6,202 views
Champion.gg - Kalista ADC Stats, Builds, Runes, Masteries and Counters

I know win rates aren't a huge thing, but come on, really?

I've played against Kalista a few times, and to me it feels like she has everything, mobility, engage with Ult, objective control, free vision, a save for her support, but then she starts auto attacking me, and she does 0 damage. She's currently lacking the most important part of being an ADC. Damage.

So, Riot, any plans for her? Or is she going to stay at garbage tier forever?

Edit: So one idea I've seen for a possible rework/tweak is to limit her hops with a new resource bar called Stamina, where hops consume stamina, and she gets resets on stamina when she gets kills. So like 100 stamina and she uses either 10 or 20 stamina per hop, and gets resets on champion kills.

Second Edit: Yeah, we know she's a mistake, just like how mistakes made at the wheel end lives and mistakes made in the backseat start ones, but having a champion at garbage tier is sad. Still, she's awful to play against when she's good, so we won't remember Kalista Mori.

P.S. Her play rate is pretty damn bad too, sitting at 1.75%, only higher than Quinn ADC and Urgot.

90 Comments

The Bearded Bard28 votes

Kalista is an example of horrible design. With her kit, there's very little you can do against her when she's strong, and very little you can do with her when she's weak.

So yes, she will most likely stay garbage tier until someone thinks up a way to make her less difficult to play against when she's powerful.

MrWasjig5 votes

That'll probably be the time someone can work up the courage to tell CertainlyT his design sucked and needs drastic changes...that should come around by the time apes have retaken the Earth "Planet of the Apes" style.

agbudar11 votes

rework kalista

/thread

no seriously the way kalista was released, no champion can/should be allowed to be that broken. her kit is INFURIATING.

go ahead and play Olaf against her for example.. you might as wel feed her support while your at it and become worthless gold wise. cuz thats what you become free gold.

Only Play Darius7 votes

I remember when release Kalista could kite a powerballed Rammus. Also playing Tryndamere against her is horrible as she always faces you so landing the slow is impossible.

Only Play Darius10 votes

Good riddance. She's a mistake of a champion release and should have been killed at the drawing board. Riot sending her to the gutter is one of the few things they did right this season.

The Yetii Rider9 votes

One of the things that hurt Kalista most is that she was nerfed for stacking AD and then all of the AD items were nerfed.

IE gives less AD. BT is disgustingly expensive. Hurricane, her main item, has half the AS.

Kalista is the only champion in the game whose auto attacks don't deal 1.0 AD. And then the best AD items were all weakened.

Why wouldn't she be shit?

AMYS GRAVE2 votes

Graves has weird AD scaling on autos as well.

YJRBqwXJcS7 votes

hell no, keep her that way.

Jaygo417 votes

Yes! Keep her that way! You need to understand that Kalista is one of the HIGHEST frustration factor champions to play against SIMPLY by virtue of her kit. There's no fixing that. Good riddance, Kalista

A little Peepo6 votes

See that's her problem for an adc she has way too much into her, utility and CC plus mobility. On ashe it balances out since she has no mobility nor escapes what so ever but u can't say the same for kaslista.

Chances are she will remain trash tier like twitch was until a new build or meta plays in her favor. I think her issue is her ult, too much power on an adc that doesn't tend to make sense why she has meh damage just so she can have an initiate in general.

Crowe Stalker6 votes

I mean, we all know Riot could have just given her the MF Treatment (pretty much 40-ish Base AD and like 1 per level scaling) but nooo, she has to deal 90% of auto attack damage...

On a champion that's designed to build attack speed and not critical strike chance which would be her only hope of counteracting it.

Only Play Darius1 votes

I never understood why they give MF such low base AD. I suppose it was to make her fair since her old ability gave her on hit magic damage but that was removed and playing around her love tap is annoying.

morris13 votes
  • One of the lowest base attack damage at level 1 and 18
  • One of the best lane bully ADCs that also scales very well in the late game

That pretty much says it all. In lane MF uses Q to deal massive damage coupled with a guaranteed Love Tap. If it first kills a unit, you can definitely forget she has 60 AD with a whole setup since she'll still do over 200 damage to you.

EDIT: Also forgot to mention that late game she is pretty much an ult bot. Despite having 63 AD at level 18, the ult can still do massive damage over a full channel (hence Korean MF being viable over crit MF)

Mhihnj6 votes

I am not complaining. She was the one thing that tilted me more than Zed. She needs rework if you ask me

IceKingChernobog5 votes

Honestly i hope she never comes back into meta with that disgusting kit of hers. Riot pretty much poppied/olafed her, they know her kit is absolutely broken and frustrating to deal with that's why they nerfed her numbers and made her deal only 90% of her aa damage(i honestly found the 90%aa damage dealt nerf stupid, it felt like they aren't addressing her real problems which is her kit in general). Kalista is a prime example of "How not to make an adc"(of course CertainlyTrash have to make things broken to be relevant) her and ekko(who suffers from a disgusting kit as well) should have never been ideas in the first place. Before she ever comes back into the meta she really needs a kit rework.

TacoTheKitten5 votes

[deleted]

TurquoiseYoshi2 votes

He has good ideas, like the majority of Yasuo or Kalista's passive, but he then loads other stuff onto the champions that make no sense and add tons of power, like Wind Wall or Kalista's ult/W.

warpenguin5552 votes

ikr. just non of it tends to be balanced or remotely healthy for the game

Keevalroy2 votes

CertainlyT tries hard to create cool and unique ideas but doesn't think before he implements them.

Fixed.

Sasogwa5 votes

I've played against Kalista a few times, and to me it feels like she has everything, mobility, engage with Ult, objective control, free vision, a save for her support

You've said it, she has everything. And this is a huge kit problem, having no freaking weaknesses (ty CertainlyT). A champion that is so insanely versatile can not be strong, else it's completely crushing the metagame and pick or ban everytime. Oh well we see the same problem all the time. Azir Gragas etc.

Slack King4 votes

Isnt she one of the toughest ADC's mechanically?

My Waifu Vanilla2 votes

It doesn't matter how mechanically good at a champion you are when they by design do less than the entire roster. Doesn't build Crit and autos do inherently less than everyone else's.

Miraweave2 votes

[{quoted}](name=My Waifu Chocola,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U2FG4dIb,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-07-06T03:23:40.343+0000)

It doesn't matter how mechanically good at a champion you are when they by design do less than the entire roster. Doesn't build Crit and autos do inherently less than everyone else's.

That's what you get for being the most mobile champion in the game.

Remove her passive, then she can actually get power back.

Keevalroy1 votes

Rush hurricane and shift click the ground. So mechanical. So skillful.

Only Play Darius1 votes

I never understood what shift-click does. This game needs a manual

Athenes Lulu4 votes

She's high skillfloor/high skillcap, feast/famine, and very OP if numbers are a bit too high and kinda shit if numbers are too low all combined.

No, she's far from garbage. It's just her design that encourages the extremities of everything.

The DrBonjigollo3 votes

I got her to mastery lvl 5 a long time ago, never played her since. I miss playing Kalista, riot needs to give her some Zed or Azir love.

Akali is SO HOT3 votes

It still amazes me that she got through the design phase and into the game with that kit.

MoarCowbell983 votes

even with 125 games + on kalista those people have sub 45% win rate.

honestly though how can you balance her without gutting her? she is literally the best adc if you make her viable. there is no reason to pick anyone else. her passive is that broken.

CoolKnightST3 votes

I think we need to make her resourceless. Most parts of her kit are on a decent cooldown. It's just strange for ballancing her out arround a resourcebar while champions like yasuo are resourceless without any reason. I think kalista would fit these conditions verry well.

I find it strange but I have the feeling it would solve some of kalista's problems without buffing her with some random damage numbers.

warpenguin5553 votes

Good. keep her that way. Poorly designed champions like her need relaunches

It Hertz When IP3 votes

Just remove her hopping mechanic. I don't care if that's her signature THING, it's been pretty well established that such a passive is toxic as fuck and near-impossible to balance around. No one needs a hyper-mobile ADC, no one WANTS to deal with a hyper-mobile ADC.

Nik Nikerson2 votes

Better nerf Urgot.

Photos of Ghosts2 votes

Or maybe, just maybe, cap her E on monsters and take away her W active. Then undo the damage nerf.

manbearswine2 votes

I know win rates aren't a huge thing, but come on, really?

See it's a common mistake made by people who are not insane and are not used to the boards.

Winrates are literally god here.

TacoTheKitten2 votes

[deleted]

TurquoiseYoshi2 votes

To be fair, that's the core of her kit. If you remove the passive and the E, you don't get anything that meaningful. You've basically removed what made Kalista unique. But if you cut off some of the excess, like her ult, her W active, and her infinite E stacking (for free Baron/Dragon secures), her focus is as a mobile ADC instead of a utility ADC who also has mobility.

LatetotheRace2 votes

It looks like riot really can't balance gimmick champions. They always end up either brokenly op or just broken.

Audiomancy2 votes

Kalista is to ADCs what Ryze is to mages.

Extremely overwhelming when the meta favors her and just plain obnoxious even when it doesn't. I imagine they'll keep her in garbage-tier until she gets a proper rework.

Draw My Fursona2 votes

"Kalista is a garbage ADC" gud keep that bitch down

LadyRenly2 votes

good ,she can stay garbage tier for all I care. she's a dumb champion that needs a rework.

Urgot can be frustrating, but at least he has to hit a grenade first before doing anything

BluePolarizer1 votes

I dunno, my team fed a Kalista 8 kills in 8 minutes once and she was destroying everybody.

Toastersaot7 votes

{quoted}

I dunno, my team fed a Kalista 8 kills in 8 minutes once and she was destroying everybody.

Anybody could destroy anybody with eight kills. Still, I understand, but when she has zero kills she tickles me.

Caítlyn1 votes

Riot doesnt care about ADCs. They like to dump ADCs in the trash and leave them there.

RIP Jinx RIPKalista RIPKindred

A little Peepo11 votes

{quoted}

Riot doesnt care about ADCs. They like to dump ADCs in the trash and leave them there.

RIP Jinx RIPKalista RIPKindred

Jinx is still really strong in the right comps. So I wouldn't say RIP

XPL Turdong5 votes

{quoted}

Jinx is still really strong in the right comps. So I wouldn't say RIP

A champion that can do nothing without an entire team playing to make them succeed is not strong, don't get me wrong some champions are better in certain team comps and excel with teams helping them, what I am saying is Jinx is absolutely nothing without a team, she can do nothing by herself. Champions like Kog'Maw or Vayne and maybe something like Yasuo, they are amazing with a team backing them up and playing to help them. But they can also hold their own to a moderate level if the team leaves them to their own devices.

DrCyanide3 votes

Second highest win rate ADC at 53.27%, 16% play rate, exactly why do people think Jinx is suffering right now?

Just don't go split-pushing with Jinx, stick with a buddy and you're fine. There's a reason that you've got a Support in lane with you.

zlumpy3 votes

I don't get why Jhin has a longer, faster skill shot with a snare while jinx gets an uber telegraphed zap that is super easy to dodge.

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