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We've been wrong all this time.

Zero Shingetsu··30 votes·12,663 views

For years, I've heard people preach that the community is toxic. The game is hard to play because of all these insufferable gits saying this or that when you're trying to just enjoy the game. That if we could just fix the toxic community, most of our woes would be solved.

I have discovered in my sampling of games since full muting both chats that we were wrong.

For the past 50 games, I've maintained a record of my general mood at the end of the game. In all these games, both team and all chat were muted. Emotes were muted. Pings were volume muted. I gave myself the fewest stressers possible. What I discovered was that irrespective of wins or losses, I found myself in a negative mood after a full 82% of the games I played. A further 21.9% of those left me feeling what I classified as "extremely negative", such that I actually had to stop playing and do something else entirely. Interestingly enough, I feel that I enjoyed the game more when I listened to toxic players, because at least in that case you had something to laugh at.

Why was I upset? Well, in 32 of the 41 games in which I came away feeling negative (a full 78%!), the primary annoyance I cited was displeasure with a specific champion that was in the game. This was usually contained to the same dozen or so culprits I've had problems with for the past three seasons, incidentally. It wasn't the way the champion was played that bothered me. I had a specific citation set aside for "opponent or teammate's skill" (which I only ticked two times in 41 unhappy games). What this particular citation meant was that I was displeased with the way a champion's kit allowed them to control the game with little effort and minimal counterplay opportunities. Interestingly enough, every single "extremely negative" game was attached to this citation.

In short... As it turns out, it's not the community that's toxic. It's the game. My theory is that the game spurs toxicity, leading the a volatile community. The game is toxic, and that is not a good sign.

60 Comments

DalekZec10 votes

I've always theorized that toxic champions create toxic players and a toxic environment.

Player frustration is a major concern riot has to consider but I don't think they are even doing so given how champs are these days.

FioraWillCarry9 votes

I never gave a shit about toxic people. If you're 18-2 hard carrying my team, I don't give a fuck what you say as long as we win. But if you're the nicest guy in the world while going 0-12, I'm gonna report the fuck out of you and I will probably get a 14 day ban as well for telling you what a piece of shit I think you are. Feeders upset me more than anything else in this game.

MkLBR5 votes

I don't give a shit about toxic people either, but his point is all these whackass unbalanced to hell champions make the toxicity rate go way up because they're not fun to play against or with. Pyke Yasuo Zoe Fiora to name a few.

GritsNGravey1 votes

I will disagree with your picks as they all can be locked down. The only issues i see in this game are 3 Aatrox Akali MasterYi . I say these 3 because there not at all easy to lock Down and Fizz is up there as well these guys when ahead can not be shut down like at all they will stay on top even if you kill them 15 times.

Illabethe1 votes

Generally the OP is talking more about champs like Garen Xerath Zed Katarina Jax Hecarim ..... who can all generally do their job so well, even when unskilled, that team decisions ALWAYS revolve around them.

If you get a Pyke..... he's just a background annoyance (imo) that makes you have to be conscious of your HP.

When you get a Jax..... you generally have to think: If I trade him, is there ANY scenario where I can win without 1v5ing and him killing 1-2 of us in the process? Well ..... No..... he's got enough HP and Mag resist that my Mages can't eliminate him in a combo.... Well ..... No..... he counters my skirmisher and almost one shots after absorbing all my auto attacks..... Well ..... No..... he's got really low cooldowns and even lower now that he has item 3161 Well ..... No..... My Tank can't escape him, and my Armor/Resist are too low to actually mitigate most of his damage. Well ..... No..... If Jax split pushes my turret, he's going to kill it in 1/3 the time most champs take due to his passive.

GritsNGravey1 votes

I get what your putting down on note of Jax I find if you avoid his Stun its GG for him however issue there is you either lose the kill as he will leap away sense he can leap on wards for some stupid reason. Or he simply outruns you because even if your speed matches his or you are 20 more then him he still runs faster then you. seriously i was shaco and had full on Boots and this Jax had no boots and still out ran me. I had a speed boost from crab in river and still couldn't catch him then he leaped over a wall and i passed on it because of his bot lane was mia while mine chilled and farmed there lane no lie they even took a warded drake while i was sitting at the back wall pinging mid and bot to close in. Love this game sometimes.

GilxeN1 votes

{quoted}

I never gave a shit about toxic people. If you're 18-2 hard carrying my team, I don't give a fuck what you say as long as we win. But if you're the nicest guy in the world while going 0-12, I'm gonna report the fuck out of you and I will probably get a 14 day ban as well for telling you what a piece of shit I think you are. Feeders upset me more than anything else in this game.

Thats the funniest part 18-2 a guy who tried to carry the game blamed the "nice guy" who is 0-12 because he didnt do a jackshit to win the game, BUT HEY HE WAS A NICE GUY AND SAID "GOGO TEAM WE CAN DO THIS".

Yes yes all will say 18-2 deserves to get 14 days banned instantly, but if that 18-2 guy said firstly nicely, secondly more agressive, and third time with reasonable blame that he is fking useless for the team and ain't listening to the calls?

So what degenerative boards will say at this point?

Serika Zero2 votes

You think the 0/12 guy will magically play better when you start cursing and harassing him (or her) ?? Do you think that will win you the game? You are literally sabotaging your chances to win by flaming someone.

Also, I've played a bunch of games with both chats mutated) actually I had all chat muted for like 5+ seasons.

GilxeN1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U1zX6lbK,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-09-16T14:52:27.094+0000)

You think the 0/12 guy will magically play better when you start cursing and harassing him (or her) ?? Do you think that will win you the game? You are literally sabotaging your chances to win by flaming someone.

Also, I've played a bunch of games with both chats mutated) actually I had all chat muted for like 5+ seasons.

Atleast he will start moving his almost dead brain cells?

Serika Zero1 votes

Ok, let's try a different approach. If someone on the street punched you/spit on you. And orders you to do something.

You are more likely to: A) do what they told you to do B) punch/spit back C) attempt to hurt that person in various eays

Which will be your option?

Illabethe1 votes

Because there's some social equivalent between constructive criticism masked by a potential insult, and a physical altercation with no "space" between the two parties. [zombie-brand-mindblown]

Like it or not, League treats even positive constructive criticism worded in nice ways..... as toxic and reportable. It's about the target's interpretation, not the intent of the chatter.

Serika Zero1 votes

I do not know you, in this game you are matched with strangers. Its not like a mmo where we make parties, get to know each other, keep in touch, etc. We match up, we fight, we break up, we never speak again.

The high amount of toxicity in this game means that after playing this shit for 3+ months, the vast majority of people will take any sort of criticism as an attack. As such, for the vast majority the reaction they will have in game, is the same one as when being attacked. A defensive one, one that marks you as the enemy, want that wants to harm you (his or her team mate) rather than cooperate with you.

Also, a 0/12 player can still help you win the game if you don't tilt them or don't make them intentionally try to lose it. The moment they stop joining team fights OR pushing minion waves, and they spend most of their time stealing farm from either jungle or your other party members (and then running away from team fights if steal farm from other members) is the moment you lose the game. There's one thing playing 4v5. There's another thing playing 4v6.

And that's why, you won't just make them play worse by flaming, you'll make them try their best to make you lose. Which is an even worse outcome for you if all you care about is winning.

Illabethe1 votes

I think it's hilarious you think going around stealing own team's jungle/cs and then running up mid is more constructive than them just quitting. Team could actually use that gold/XP. They can't/won't. And the distraction they offer in exchange for stealing those resources for griefing is...... .5 seconds per death.

News Flash: Most 0/12 act exactly the same to get where they got as they do after you flame them. Some will outright Quit, which may actually benefit you. Maybe 1 in 100 will actually react positively to positive motivation/suggestions. 90 out of 100 will troll just because their PREVIOUS game was shit (and they fed there too)

News Flash 2: Acquaintances are not over when the game is. You will likely play with those same players 20-30 times per year on average just out of chance. You will play with their "friends." Many will try to add you as friends when you carry them.

News Flash 3: The debate on interpreting everything as an attack has gone too FAR in society. If everything is considered an attack, you literally have no incentive left to "improve or learn." Socratic criticism is a core of Western Society and the philosophy behind every pillar of learning. You're literally defending a mindset that says, "we no longer need to learn and you need to butt out of our business of nonlearning." Part of society is knowing what is criticism that is constructive and knowing what criticism is false, threatening, and unfounded. What a world you must live in, to think that everything being false, threatening, and unfounded is a healthy way to interpret everything.

Serika Zero1 votes

its not more constructive, quite the opposite. Its DESTRUCTIVE, generally, when you attack someone, they will attempt to hurt you back. So, going around stealing own's team jungle cs or lane cs and xp after getting flamed is usually a normal behavior.

Instead of just having that guy or gal 1v1 and dying and continue feeding, they will often go and try to intentionally lose the game. There's not 1 in 100 that will react positively. 50 in 100 will react negatively, 30 in 100 will actively try to make you lose the game, around 30 in 100 will also rage quit. And the other half will just ignore you.

Actively flaming, blaming or harassing your team will more often lead to a worse result than if you were just to keep your mouth shut. And no, not everything is being interpreted as an attack overall. But in "toxic mediums" such as but not limited to LoL, tweeter, etc. Yes, most things are interpreted as an attack. Thus, they will cause a negative reaction.

ps, as far as i'm concerned, in the past 4 years, I have added a total of 0% of the people meet ingame as friends or played with them. And I ain't the only one in this situation.

Illabethe1 votes

And I'm saying...... they DO IT ANYWAYS. They are 0/12 for a reason, and even if you say nothing, they troll you the entire game anyways.

You have far fewer games under your belt.

Illabethe1 votes

The problem with your logic is that the 0/12 player is already at his play "floor." You're already hard carrying him in a 4v5 for all intents and purposes. If they are 0/12, they have no economy, no damage, are behind on levels, don't group, and even if you try to be encouraging...... they are still all of that.

I've played over 11000 games since I downloaded LoL. I've actually tried the "be encouraging" route. Maybe 1 in 60 turn out not to be dead weight among feeders who aren't just hypercountered (I never complain to hypercountered players; I understand why THEY are 0/12).

Most will just afk split push until dead the rest of the game, even if you say NOTHING.

It's fine to wonder about "playing better when getting harassed," but it should be fine to also realize: They aren't going to do better if they aren't harassed either.

I really love it when I'm support, and my adc just "loves" to walk down lane and int 10+ times. This specific scenario didn't just affect their ability to contribute. It affected MINE. By doing that, in many cases, they effectively made the game 3v5.

Or when you are adc, and your Rakan never once E's you, but as soon as he gets to lane, he goes in and ints to a Kai Sa and a Lux.... even diving them under their turret, not letting YOU the adc...... farm..... and padding the economy of a 1 shot adc who has a semi global Marking system?

Neither of these situations are the same as just "one guy feeding."

-They are snowballing an unstoppable force -They are sabotaging their own duo laner. -They are making it impossible for their team to reasonably make decisions in any meaningful way to stop said snowball. -They are losing their team every drake for the entire game.

Illabethe1 votes

Kind of where I'm at. I can be playing perfectly, hitting every skill, setting up pick after pick...... but my team ignores 90% of them, goes off and feeds in between the potential picks, to the tune of a 20+ kill deficit (had a game last night where my team literally put up a 32/56 score at some point, simply by continually seeking out and feeding a Kai Sa/Lux/Xerath).

It's literally like they are either doing it on purpose, or they think..... "Well..... the last 3 kills **** got are now takedown gold. If I can just kill her this time......" over and over again..... never once stopping to farm or defend.

Just put down 5 wards over the course of a game and chase fight after fight.......

KalokasIsMyDaddy8 votes

I had both chats muted for like 5 games. In those games I found myself to be WAY more focused on the game rather than on the chat. For me, it's a combination of the game and the community. If somebody is toxic, I usually laugh, but it's the feeders that I hate the most.

chipndip15 votes

It's 2019 and we still blame the game for people being complete assholes.

Changing which champ is or isn't popular won't change the fact that you have a shit mentality. Whether it's Yasuo dashing all over the place or Cho'Gath true damage nuking someone so the game's a constant 4v5, you're gonna be mad about SOMETHING. Change your perspective and stop blaming the very game you're playing for your shit mental. If it's that bad, uninstall.

The Kombinator1 votes

{quoted}

It's 2019 and we still blame the game for people being complete assholes.

Changing which champ is or isn't popular won't change the fact that you have a shit mentality. Whether it's Yasuo dashing all over the place or Cho'Gath true damage nuking someone so the game's a constant 4v5, you're gonna be mad about SOMETHING. Change your perspective and stop blaming the very game you're playing for your shit mental. If it's that bad, uninstall.

You might try it out yourself. Disabling all chat, and emotes. Leave only pings since it's a prime source of information, but even mute that if someone abuses it.

Still certain champions become HELLISH to play against.

ModAcademy Kayn5 votes

You can't really base a conclusion off yourself, and try to make it true for the entirety of the game and playerbase, because what happens if you're just an extremely negative minded person. I'm not saying you are, but there are dozens of reasons as to why you might not be representative of the playerbase.

Also, no, stop trying to excuse people's shitty behavior on the game. I've had hundreds of games where people don't flame despite someone on the other team being fed, or there was an annoying champion. Everyone is responsible for their own behavior, and if the game is getting to you that much, than you should take a break and do something else.

Magnesium141 votes

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U1zX6lbK,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-09-15T21:32:15.383+0000)

You can't really base a conclusion off yourself, and try to make it true for the entirety of the game and playerbase, because what happens if you're just an extremely negative minded person. I'm not saying you are, but there are dozens of reasons as to why you might not be representative of the playerbase.

Also, no, stop trying to excuse people's shitty behavior on the game. I've had hundreds of games where people don't flame despite someone on the other team being fed, or there was an annoying champion. Everyone is responsible for their own behavior, and if the game is getting to you that much, than you should take a break and do something else.

I second this person and I know quite a lot of people that would agree with him/her.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

I mean, that's fine, but that's still like, what 10 people? 100? For what it's trying to prove, that's not a substantial number to accurately relate towards a much bigger population of players, let alone from a varied enough source.

The Kombinator1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U1zX6lbK,comment-id=000900010000,timestamp=2019-09-17T03:07:56.707+0000)

I mean, that's fine, but that's still like, what 10 people? 100? For what it's trying to prove, that's not a substantial number to accurately relate towards a much bigger population of players, let alone from a varied enough source.

By this logic we can close the forums since nobody has enough play to form opinion about anything. Each player. Even the most hardcore all day players are less than 1%.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

I mean, not really. You're allowed to have an opinion, just don't try to act like the majority of the game is also fully in agreement with you. Cause, there's no way to prove that.

The Kombinator1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Academy Kayn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U1zX6lbK,comment-id=00090001000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-18T02:33:17.061+0000)

I mean, not really. You're allowed to have an opinion, just don't try to act like the majority of the game is also fully in agreement with you. Cause, there's no way to prove that.

Pools exist for that. Though this OP didn't made one. Still from the number of posts i'm pretty sure, that lots of players are getting tired of the everyone is mobile as hell with no cd style.

Another thing is upvotes. And this thread got some already.

Illabethe1 votes

Except..... it follows generally the opinion and consensus on every single thread about behavior on forums except those threads about perma ban appeals.....

Behavior follows lack of control over aspects of the game which you cannot control. Behavior does not LEAD to the lack of control.

ModAcademy Kayn1 votes

That's a whole lot of anecdotal evidence, from a place that's known for people being upset and wanting to vent. Asking people here for their opinion on the state of the game is like asking people's opinion of beer at a bar. You're going to get a result, but you need to acknowledge that you're going to get similar thinking people at the same place, which isn't going to be an accurate reflection of the community as a whole.

Illabethe1 votes

Whose the one who used "anecdotal" 10 out of 100? The truth is; if you're looking for concrete evidence of a culprit, you're not going to find any, because no actual study involving the community as a whole has been done on THAT subject yet.

All we (you or I) have is anecdotal.

As to the subject of what makes people feel bad when playing this Game: I generally disagree that a holistic view of these forums and peoples' complaints is "gathering people with similar thinking."

We fight all the time, and we disagree with who is at fault, and we disagree what is at fault. The only two things these people have in common is : -They had the notion to come to forums as a place to vent. -They generally had some negative experience.

Imo, that's not enough in common to suggest it's a polluted statistic, once all the emotion and bias is removed and the results distilled.

All I'm trying to claim: Some aspect with game control/moderation generally leads to player behavior/dissatisfaction. Not the other way around. THAT, is consistent and has been consistent in the forums for the 7 years I have been here.

MkLBR4 votes

In short... As it turns out, it's not the community that's toxic. It's the game. My theory is that the game spurs toxicity, leading the a volatile community. The game is toxic, and that is not a good sign.

Yeah that's pretty much it. Riot just needs to fucking balance the game properly and nerf all these outliers.

OtterlyLost4 votes

The game is very toxic and it isn't just attributed necessarily to specific champions being toxic either. I have found myself more frustrated and angry with the game for the last two seasons than my entire history with League. There are just games that feel pointless, for one. For two, I find that even after partially reverting changes to the class I love, they are still unfun and generally eclipsed by things. I enjoyed seasons 5 though 7. 8 and 9 have been stressful, awful, depressing states of affairs, however. The mismanagement by the company in regards to this game isnt even surprising anymore. Its just exhaustive.

Sire Hippington3 votes

Definitly agree on that. I never had much issues with toxicity, but i still found my self enjoying the game alot less over the last 3-4 years. There are plenty things playing together for that, the most notable are:

  • Snowballiness
  • Damagecreep/powercreep
  • a design philosphie that overloads kits and doesn't give any fucks about the 'play against' part
  • they disrespekt veteran players over and over. A masterie system that doesn't take into account the 4k+ hours i spent on the game befor they were implemented, still hardly any ip blue essence sinks, dumping all over mains when it comes to reworks, which most of the time are remove/replace missions, removal of old game modes...they just don't give a damn about the original player base that made the game big.
Freaktory1 votes

I have been playing sinse season 3, back before they mangled soraka... I was here when she used to give mana as her E. I will admit I was hooked back then. and I have always been the "big picture" objective type of player. I initially enjoyed the game because of the strategy, the sense of actual counterplay. The fact that people were focused on WINNING. Now you have champions that can blink you out before you say "oops" a community so hung up on "look at me and how OP I AM" they will watch someone get 4v1 ambushed and a) not lift a finger to help, B) tell that person how "trash" they are and then C) go into /all chat to call for reports on the player as punishment for being stomped.

The community is at the point where they only care about "having fun" and apparently now wanting to win is "tryharding"....something to be ashamed of. How DARE you actually want to take towers and win. When mid lane wants to spend 20 minutes seeing if she can farm 75 kills in 30 minutes. Oh. You want to take towers and win? Well too bad. "its just norms" or "its just a game" Now you have to lose the match because she decided playing "endless mode" in normal draft is more important than helping the team win.

Yeah I have gotten to the point where I am moving on to thier competitors. Giving my money to games like SMITE. even made a troll account, I mean what do I care....Riot stopped caring about thier game a long time ago. Yeah, They dont care about the veterans now that they have the E$ports money. But the funny thing is, thier game is being destroyed inside and out. Good luck trying to get $$ when no one is left to actually play your game who actually wants to WIN. They just want to treat it like a TDM. Why do you think they added TFT. Because the community is dumbed down to the point where TFT is the equivelant of "Rattling your car keys infront of an infant"

I tried it once and was disgusted. Felt insulted, intellectually degraded...The game was just pandering. I miss when the game used to have the complexity of chess. Now people are only interested in beating each other over the head for not playing "meta" or "what the pros play" And they dont want to win, just fight over who has more kills than who in some KDA Dick-measuring contest (My kda is bigger, Huuuuurrrrr. I got more kills than u!) I now see why people make troll accounts. These people have become so full of themselves, so self rightous that THEY get to dictate who thier team plays, what they build, etc. They dont want a team...They want a cheerleader section.

Again, Season 3 veteran...Turned troll. yeah I am making troll accounts, about the most entertainment I am gonna get out of league these days. I dont like it...but the community has no interest in winning matches anyways. so this is me "having fun"...and according to the community, having fun is more important than taking objectives, taking nexus, trying to win. Thanks League community. You cranked out another one. :)

preternatural2 votes

lol i like how folks just don't want their games getting griefed.

anatasjhsh012 votes

{quoted}

lol i like how folks just don't want their games getting griefed.

Of course do you like your games griefed?

preternatural2 votes

{quoted}

Of course do you like your games griefed?

what is considered griefing? nubrac get's a pass and he's actually griefing.

anatasjhsh013 votes

{quoted}

what is considered griefing? nubrac get's a pass and he's actually griefing.

For me griefing is feeding on purpose troll picking and what ever way to ruin the game for others.

I never stood with nubrac I don't want him on my team but I also don't agree with NB3

Illabethe1 votes

Except he's not, and his record proves it.

His account he made over his "Vacation" is already Diamond IV and is 56% Win rate on Teemo. His main account's Teemo standings have been slightly increasing in win rate too (the 47% comes from non support Teemo play before he started doing his roaming Teemo).

The only thing griefing in Nubrac games are his toxic teammates, who refuse to adjust/adapt.

preternatural1 votes

{quoted}

Except he's not, and his record proves it.

His account he made over his "Vacation" is already Diamond IV and is 56% Win rate on Teemo. His main account's Teemo standings have been slightly increasing in win rate too (the 47% comes from non support Teemo play before he started doing his roaming Teemo).

The only thing griefing in Nubrac games are his toxic teammates, who refuse to adjust/adapt.

he's a master tier player, everything below that is smurfing.

Illabethe1 votes

Cry more when the difference between Diamond and Master is a .1 second reaction time and a marginal 2% more general responsiveness.

Trying to claim that the difference is Vast is an utter joke.

Masters win marginally more than Diamonds. That doesn't mean Diamond play is "smurfing." If anything it suggests you know nothing about high tier play; Most Challenger/Masters/Grandmaster games have a combination of Diamond, Challenger, Master, and Grandmasters in them, because the player pool is so small.

P.S. Nubrac's MAIN account was Diamond III to Diamond I for all but the month of June this year, where he briefly got into Masters and then was demoted via the 2 week ban.

P.P.S Nubrac is one tricking TEEMO, and perfoming at these rates. Do you even realize how laughable that is at Diamond/Masters to try to imply that "he's smurfing?"

0 Skill expression champ that usually ends up being a heavy end feeder with more vulnerabilities than almost any champion in the game........ and he's pulling astounding win rates, even with people outright trolling him.

Don't talk to me about "Smurfing."

preternatural1 votes

{quoted}

Cry more when the difference between Diamond and Master is a .1 second reaction time and a marginal 2% more general responsiveness.

Trying to claim that the difference is Vast is an utter joke.

Masters win marginally more than Diamonds. That doesn't mean Diamond play is "smurfing." If anything it suggests you know nothing about high tier play; Most Challenger/Masters/Grandmaster games have a combination of Diamond, Challenger, Master, and Grandmasters in them, because the player pool is so small.

P.S. Nubrac's MAIN account was Diamond III to Diamond I for all but the month of June this year, where he briefly got into Masters and then was demoted via the 2 week ban.

P.P.S Nubrac is one tricking TEEMO, and perfoming at these rates. Do you even realize how laughable that is at Diamond/Masters to try to imply that "he's smurfing?"

0 Skill expression champ that usually ends up being a heavy end feeder with more vulnerabilities than almost any champion in the game........ and he's pulling astounding win rates, even with people outright trolling him.

Don't talk to me about "Smurfing."

that's a pretty big difference when skillshot travel times are tenths of a second lol. all the details of the game matter when you get into the top 1%, no matter how small you might think them. there isn't all that much difference between how f1 drivers drive a circuit, but the differences that do exist make a big difference at the end of the day.

Illabethe1 votes

All details matter. I know. BUT, you're pretending like Diamonds don't sometimes pull off Master tier play and that sometimes Masters/Challengers don't play like Diamond. THEY DO.

And, most Master tier players are multi champ players. They are not ONE TRICKS. Being able to perform as one as a one trick is SIGNIFICANT.

preternatural1 votes

{quoted}

All details matter. I know. BUT, you're pretending like Diamonds don't sometimes pull off Master tier play and that sometimes Masters/Challengers don't play like Diamond. THEY DO.

And, most Master tier players are multi champ players. They are not ONE TRICKS. Being able to perform as one as a one trick is SIGNIFICANT.

they pull off those plays according to your eyes looking up from below. when you're challenger and you're looking at diamond plays they look terrible. so says literally every challenger streamer the game has seen.

Illabethe1 votes

Says the ones who are in the viewpoint of "finding the problems with 1-2 people out of 10, and then creating a bias that somehow is justified by their egos, that that is the entirety of the elo.

I have seen Faker play worse than a Platinum player at times. I have seen Sneaky play Sona so weak that he fed. Hard.

You can look at ANY player from an above view, and come to the conclusion they suck, Irony being.... the people making those judgements aren't perfect either, and very often do throw up horrible performances as well. They often just have been lucky enough to win 1 in 100 games more than the people 4-5 elos below them.

preternatural1 votes

{quoted}

Says the ones who are in the viewpoint of "finding the problems with 1-2 people out of 10, and then creating a bias that somehow is justified by their egos, that that is the entirety of the elo.

I have seen Faker play worse than a Platinum player at times. I have seen Sneaky play Sona so weak that he fed. Hard.

You can look at ANY player from an above view, and come to the conclusion they suck, Irony being.... the people making those judgements aren't perfect either, and very often do throw up horrible performances as well. They often just have been lucky enough to win 1 in 100 games more than the people 4-5 elos below them.

this has nothing to do with high elo players looking down at whatever they consider low elo, it's all relative lol. suddenly I should say faker is platinum because he was tilted one game? makes no sense at all

Illabethe1 votes

No. You should realize that trying to hold people who win 1 more per 100 games on a pedestal is a fallacious argument/assumption. That is literally the difference between High Diamond and Challenger: 1 game per 100 that they do better than people lower than them. That's one game less "tilted/trolled"

Do you even understand who much luck plays a role in that?

Not only that, every season, high elos START high elo. They have no real climb, other than among their already existing peers, who guess what? They often win trade with to maintain numbers, because a lot of them are friends.

I do generally agree there is a vast difference in skill Diamond IV and lower; Higher than that is generally an illusion driven by specific champions controlling the game, and luck, and win trading.

Diamond III to Challenger are VERY close in skill. So close it comes down to winning 1 more game per 100.

RtClick1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U1zX6lbK,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-15T10:16:59.614+0000)

For years, I've heard people preach that the community is toxic. The game is hard to play because of all these insufferable gits saying this or that when you're trying to just enjoy the game. That if we could just fix the toxic community, most of our woes would be solved.

I have discovered in my sampling of games since full muting both chats that we were wrong.

For the past 50 games, I've maintained a record of my general mood at the end of the game. In all these games, both team and all chat were muted. Emotes were muted. Pings were volume muted. I gave myself the fewest stressers possible. What I discovered was that irrespective of wins or losses, I found myself in a negative mood after a full 82% of the games I played. A further 21.9% of those left me feeling what I classified as "extremely negative", such that I actually had to stop playing and do something else entirely. Interestingly enough, I feel that I enjoyed the game more when I listened to toxic players, because at least in that case you had something to laugh at.

Why was I upset? Well, in 32 of the 41 games in which I came away feeling negative (a full 78%!), the primary annoyance I cited was displeasure with a specific champion that was in the game. This was usually contained to the same dozen or so culprits I've had problems with for the past three seasons, incidentally. It wasn't the way the champion was played that bothered me. I had a specific citation set aside for "opponent or teammate's skill" (which I only ticked two times in 41 unhappy games). What this particular citation meant was that I was displeased with the way a champion's kit allowed them to control the game with little effort and minimal counterplay opportunities. Interestingly enough, every single "extremely negative" game was attached to this citation.

In short... As it turns out, it's not the community that's toxic. It's the game. My theory is that the game spurs toxicity, leading the a volatile community. The game is toxic, and that is not a good sign.

As a Garen top laner I 100% agree. It's impossible to ban All the cancer matchups for your specific champ. God forbid you have to first pick. For me it's Illaoi, Kennen, Gnar, Teemo, Neeko, Quinn, Vayne, Yasuo, Gang Plank, Jayce. And there's always some asshole that's gonna pick it and spam ping his mastery as if they are good for exploiting a bad matchup. At this point I just dodge if someone picks that bullshit.

Caesíum1 votes

{quoted}

As a Garen top laner I 100% agree. It's impossible to ban All the cancer matchups for your specific champ. God forbid you have to first pick. For me it's Illaoi, Kennen, Gnar, Teemo, Neeko, Quinn, Vayne, Yasuo, Gang Plank, Jayce. And there's always some asshole that's gonna pick it and spam ping his mastery as if they are good for exploiting a bad matchup. At this point I just dodge if someone picks that bullshit.

This is your own fault for being a one trick. You are not supposed to only play one champion.

As for the main article, I agree with some of it. Really annoying to see someone go 0/7 but then still one shot the support and be back in the game straight away.

Newer champions kits are overloaded and stupid, but Pyke is just ridiculous. A true damage execute with an indicator for when you can kill someone with it that ignores shields and shares gold with teammates? That's literally so overpowered in itself, but he has way too much sustain (maybe if his grey health was consumed like Tahm Kench it would be better), has camo, way too fast out of combat movespeed a hook which you can channel for too long and a dash stun to boot. Not saying he's impossible to play against, in my elo I just counter with poppy support and turn the no brain monkeys that play him into mincemeat. But even if he gets smashed in lane he can always turn up at the end of the Teamfight and wipe the no sums enemy with his R key aaaand suddenly he's in front. Unnecessary.

True Garen1 votes

{quoted}

As a Garen top laner I 100% agree. It's impossible to ban All the cancer matchups for your specific champ. God forbid you have to first pick. For me it's Illaoi, Kennen, Gnar, Teemo, Neeko, Quinn, Vayne, Yasuo, Gang Plank, Jayce. And there's always some asshole that's gonna pick it and spam ping his mastery as if they are good for exploiting a bad matchup. At this point I just dodge if someone picks that bullshit.

I don't think that you can support OP thesis with Garen's particular condition. Garen isn't an early game champion and that's how he's been designed for a long time now. In the same way that Garen play is macro-dependant, you have to ban for the game, and not for the lane. It's unlikely that Garen will win lane against anybody (but he won't die, either).

The flip-side is, that these boards are full of complaints from players who think that it's grossly unfair that they dominated Garen in lane and even though he was obviously behind, he was still able to one-shot them from %40 HP (or more).

(Besides, because Garen has no good top-lane matchups, Garen has widely moved out of top. Into Mid, and now into the ADC spot.)

Hunkmenlordy1 votes

I think both toxic.

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