Boards›Gameplay

Patch 6.9: Beyond the MYMU and the Objective Changes

ProfDrDeath··31 votes·4,098 views
Surrender at 20

Patch 6.9 is going to contain a metric ton of changes, so it is quite easy to overlook the smaller things that are coming up.

In this, I want to point out a few of the smaller, but impactful changes that will influence champions, especially ones not covered by the MYMU.

  1. item 3083 loses 50 HP and gains 10% CdR, as the build path is changed to include a item 3067 in place of a item 3801 . This will be a boon for a lot of champions, especially tanks, Juggernauts and manaless ones. Benefactors of this change include, but are not limited to: Vi Zac Olaf DrMundo Sion

  2. item 3071 loses 5 AD, but gets 400 gold cheaper. A jarring thing about Black Cleaver, which should actually work rather well against moderate tankiness on champions (the anti-Armor effect is stronger than MR/LDR against targets with up to twice their base Armor as bonus Armor), was always its rather painful combine cost. Now, being 400 gold cheaper, it should a more reasonable buy in a match-up where the opponent likes to buy Armor, especially in light of the next change. Benefactors: Olaf Gnar Darius Garen Skarner JarvanIV Quinn Fiora Riven

  3. item 3068 is 200 gold more expensive. item 3751 loses 20 HP. A nerf aimed at the popular damaging tank build, plain and simple. Will definitely knock it down a peg, but probably not take it out of play totally - which is actually good, Sunfire Cape should remain a viable option, just not be an overwhelmingly strong one.

  4. item 2043 now only have 4 HP, but regenerate out of combat. Protecting your pink wards now actually does something.

  5. item 3363 has its cooldown mechanic changed - instead of having a 33% lower cooldown than item 3340 , it now has a 10% higher CD.

  6. item 3124 is somewhat reworked. Now costs 3600 gold total, builds from item 1043 + item 1037 + item 1026 , has 30 AD, 50 AP and 15 magic on-hit, 6 stacks max with 1 stack/auto and 8% AS + 3 AD + 4 AP per stack and Phantom Hit (Sated's doubling of on-hit effects) at max stacks. From playing around with it on the PBE, it is a bit underwhelming currently, due to losing the AS on completion. I can see it being changed towards 25% AS upfront and 4% AS/stack in the future. Phantom Hit is far less bullshitty when it is gated behind a higher cost and a stacking mechanic and not combined with a powerful on-hit effect on the same item. Also, the emphasis on the AP component of the item makes it far less suitable for champions without AP ratios. Benefactors: Jax Irelia KogMaw XinZhao Kayle Aatrox , with especially Kayle and Kog having the potential to seriously break the item and get Phantom Hit nerfed for ranged champions.

  7. item 3931. No, not Sated Devourer, but the new Enchantment: Bloodrazor. 2625 gold, 40% AS, 3% max HP physical on-hit. No stacking mechanic (f-ing finally), no fancy excuses, no lower price, merely a good AS-based jungling item. Sated's removal will potentially warrant the revert of a few previous changes, but I seriously think that this is not something that should be rushed - especially since Phantom Hit is still in play, just on a different item. Benefactors: Kindred Nocturne Vi (certain builds) Quinn Olaf

  8. item 1409 now scales towards the same damage as item 3068 . Maybe we will see the return of the jungle tank? It will definitely give that style of jungling a notch upwards, which should allow for a wider variety of team compositions - currently, the combined relative strength of top lane tanks and relative weakness of jungle tanks makes toplane the default tank of the team, relegating jungle to be a more damage-focused role. Benefactors: Sejuani RekSai Amumu Zac Skarner Volibear - and indirectly, damage-focused top laners.

  9. item 3800 is now a personal, more powerful speed boost with the AoE slow component (now 75% for 2 seconds instead of 80% for 1 s) at the end. Also, gains Catalyst's damage->mana and mana->HP conversions in a more powerful form. Benefactors: Olaf Volibear Maokai Galio Nautilus Darius Skarner Illaoi

  10. Illaoi : Test of Spirit massively changed - Vessel debuff now 12 seconds max, but increased tentacle spawn rate and no longer removed by killing a number of tentacles.

  11. EDIT: item 3302 now heals for less (20 instead of 40), but gets more charges (every 40 s instead of every 60 s). item 3097's heal reduced from 50 to 40. item 3092 and item 3098 will have 75% increased Mp5, down from 100%. This should lower the amount of regeneration in bot lane, hopefully making sustain a bit more of a dedicated investment instead of an afterthought.

So, what do you think of these?

106 Comments

Chaos Milk Tea13 votes

I think the warmog's buff (yes, I consider a buff overall) is going to have a huge impact on the builds and even viability of many tanks. Partiuclarly the truly tanky tanks who stack HP and just stand around laying down CC. It has become such a high value item that is much easier to fit into your build, rather than asking yourself if you want warmog's passive or Spirit Visage. Nautilus and Sion are a couple of favorites who will greatly enjoy it.

Hell, I'd give it a shot on the new Vladimir .

TotalJerk6 votes

Calling it now: item 3083 item 1413 item 3748. The health meta is back.

EvilRabbitt9 votes

Can you imagine how terrifying Volibear's bite will be?

Galere24 votes

THEY'RE ONTO US.

Jungle Lux God3 votes

The damage his bite will deal will be unbearable, but it won't be as terrifying as his E on minions.

TotalJerk1 votes

{quoted}

un**bear**able

[slayer-jinx-unamused]

Chatillon1 votes

Can you imagine how terrifying it already is?

Asyde1 votes

{quoted}

Can you imagine how terrifying Volibear's bite will be?

Actually, slightly less terrifying than it currently is. Warmogs lost 50hp. So his damage actually goes down. (but CDR goes up)

Hyrum Graff1 votes

{quoted}

Calling it now: item 3083 item 1413 item 3748. The health meta is back.

Sion summoner 11 summoner 12 item 3748 item 3083 item 1401 item 3078 item 3053 item 3026 u wot m8

Frius1 votes

Vayne oh ,400 basic ,1200 true dmg

Chaotic Reks2 votes

ugh, Garen is gonna be a nightmare with CDR...

Critmaster Garen2 votes

[{quoted}](name=NyX Reks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U0Tjlwdk,comment-id=00020003,timestamp=2016-04-26T13:00:11.061+0000)

ugh, Garen is gonna be a nightmare with CDR...

garen builds cdr anyways. its just slightly easier to hit the cap now.

Chaotic Reks2 votes

ugh

Jeddy0175 votes

Black Cleaver + Spirit Visage + Warmogs = Max CD Garen on a more regular basis (sorry,I don't build ghostblade on Garen) = Beyblade time!

ProfDrDeath5 votes

I shudder at the thought...

Also, you need to outright kill that Garen, or he'll back with a vengeance 15 seconds later.

Jeddy01712 votes

Vengeance?No.......

http://i.imgur.com/W0wVY4c.gif?Noredirect

Abyssphere5 votes

There are some other changes you forgot too, primarily the changes to bot lane items. item 3098 item 3092 item 3028 item 3174 item 3222 item 3302 item 3097 have all seen changes. The Relic Shield line is getting less sustain until it hits its final upgrade, the Spellthief's line is getting less mana regen after its first component, Chalice is losing Mana Font and gaining a more general sustain passive, Mikael's is increasing its mana regen all the way up to 150% (which is insane), and Grail is gaining a new identity as a mage support item. There's lots of room for the bot lane meta to shift with that.

ProfDrDeath6 votes

True, true - although I kind-of put Chalice/Grail/Crucible with the MYMU, which is why I did not mention them here.

Still, no excuse for Relic Shield/Targon's and Frost Fang/FQC. Adding that to the post.

Abyssphere1 votes

{quoted}

True, true - although I kind-of put Chalice/Grail/Crucible with the MYMU, which is why I did not mention them here.

Still, no excuse for Relic Shield/Targon's and Frost Fang/FQC. Adding that to the post.

Chalice and Grail do affect the mage update because their removal from mid effectively means the death of regen for mana-intensive mages, but the impact they can have on bot lane is a separate topic that's worth discussing. Crucible in particular is important here because it's never not been a support item. Anyway, I'll give my thoughts to contribute to the thread here as this is what I'm most educated on:

Most of what I think about the support meta after this update is down to theory-crafting though there's some experience in there too. Frostfang and FQC both feel noticeably weaker in terms of mana sustain even though they only lost 25% MP5. Chalice feels very strong in the laning phase but is difficult to purchase early enough to abuse (because of the essential Frostfang/Medallion & Sightstone rush which is often followed by FQC/Talisman completion). Grail is honestly very good I think - it made Sona feel like Soraka to me. That said, 20% CDR on a support item is a very real waste of gold.

Not seen Relic Shield or Targon's nerfs in action because nobody is playing tank supports on the PBE, but I can at least imagine them being very impactful. Early game in particular Spellthief vs Relic matchups are going to shift somewhat heavily in the favour of Spellthief users and I think that's well-needed. Riot seem to finally be taking a look into the ubiquity of tank supports in the competitive game which is good, players have been waiting on that for a while now.

Partholonian2 votes

{quoted}

Chalice and Grail do affect the mage update because their removal from mid effectively means the death of regen for mana-intensive mages

I don't think they're removed from mid lane, they're just less rush friendly. I can still see someone like Lulu Lux Orianna Karma getting one as a second or third item to have more consistent usefulness if they're not personally fed going into midgame.

Mana-intensive mages being forced to back more often is a definite concern though, unless there are targeted mana cost changes.

Most of what I think about the support meta after this update is down to theory-crafting though there's some experience in there too. Frostfang and FQC both feel noticeably weaker in terms of mana sustain even though they only lost 25% MP5.

Good, IMO. They're not supposed to solve mana problems by themselves. It'll also make the mana regen on things like item 3504 item 3222 seem less wasted on champions that are already building mana regen on their support item.

Chalice feels very strong in the laning phase but is difficult to purchase early enough to abuse (because of the essential Frostfang/Medallion & Sightstone rush which is often followed by FQC/Talisman completion).

Then don't go for FQC/Talisman; go for Watchers/Oasis (the whole point of eyestones is to free you up to pursue more regular items sooner) or just sit on the components until later. Even the tier 2 support item upgrade can be delayed if what you're getting instead is important enough.

Preferring a first back chalice over first back sightstone might even be possible depending on how much action you expect your lane to see (and how much benefit you get from it, Soraka especially). I'm also interested in the possibility of first back catalyst into ROA -- once you get it built, being a support won't delay you from stacking it.

Grail is honestly very good I think - it made Sona feel like Soraka to me. That said, 20% CDR on a support item is a very real waste of gold.

I'm concerned about this too. It seems likely to push out other caster supportish items like item 3504 item 3060 item 3222 item 3050 -- not to mention item 3157 for those supports who want it like Morgana, since it will have CDR too. Maybe they could consider taking Grail down to 10% and giving it other stats and/or reduced cost in exchange?

I think when Riot designs some of these support items they think "if we put too much straight AP mages will poach it; hey, supports want mana regen and CDR to use their spells more, let's put some on", which is fine for your first item that isn't one of the support families, but if a support wants to build multiple supportive items, well, one of those stats hard caps and the other diminishes pretty significantly. Censer seems like "if you want this cool effect you need to build more of the stats you probably already have plenty of" already, Mikael's too, and now Grail looks to be joining that club.

Censer Grail Sona does seem pretty nuts on paper though, if you don't just get instagibbed.

Abyssphere1 votes

I don't think they're removed from mid lane, they're just less rush friendly. I can still see someone like Lulu Lux Orianna Karma getting one as a second or third item to have more consistent usefulness if they're not personally fed going into midgame.

I mean if a Lux/Lulu/Ori/Karma mid are doing horrendously then sure, they'll consider buying it, but that's an extremely niche use case. Even if it'll show up once in every 200 mid lane builds, it's still been removed as a generic mage item which is very impactful.

Good, IMO. They're not supposed to solve mana problems by themselves. It'll also make the mana regen on things like item 3504 item 3222 seem less wasted on champions that are already building mana regen on their support item.

I agree I guess, Frostfang in particular I think simply had too much regen on it for an 850g item. Frost Queen's on the other hand I think is being treated a bit harshly - 150% was too much but 100% felt like a completely acceptable fit. Perhaps cutting it to 75% was Riot's attempt at ensuring that it didn't show up in the mid lane but I don't think that was necessary. In any case if FQC was gonna take a mana regen nerf then Eye of the Watchers probably should have too. Otherwise nerfing FQC because of a philosophy that it shouldn't solve mana regen by itself or so that other items with mana regen would become more attractive is pointless - if people just build Eye of the Watchers then they still have a one-item solution to mana problems and Ardent/Mikael's remain unattractive.

Then don't go for FQC/Talisman; go for Watchers/Oasis (the whole point of eyestones is to free you up to pursue more regular items sooner) or just sit on the components until later. Even the tier 2 support item upgrade can be delayed if what you're getting instead is important enough. Preferring a first back chalice over first back sightstone might even be possible depending on how much action you expect your lane to see (and how much benefit you get from it, Soraka especially). I'm also interested in the possibility of first back catalyst into ROA -- once you get it built, being a support won't delay you from stacking it.

You're entirely correct that you can do that - point here is that there's a trade-off, though. Sacrificing Frostfang/Medallion gold income for the sustain off Chalice is painful, as is sacrificing the active on their tier 3 items or the power of vision from Sightstone. I think the main situation I'd purchase Chalice very early in is if I was a Spellthief's user and was heavily losing lane (so upgrading to Frostfang for the increased gold would be impractical). However, Sightstone would have to be considered in that situation too. Don't think I can see supports rushing ROA though - the Catalyst sustain looks good on paper but is soooooooo weak in reality. If supports are gonna be buying any 2500g+ item I'm pretty sure it'll be Protobelt, which has a lot of flexibility on a lot of supports and builds from Revolver which is cool-ish for early trading.

I'm concerned about this too. It seems likely to push out other caster supportish items like item 3504 item 3060 item 3222 item 3050 -- not to mention item 3157 for those supports who want it like Morgana, since it will have CDR too. Maybe they could consider taking Grail down to 10% and giving it other stats and/or reduced cost in exchange?

I'm less worried about Grail crowding out other options and more worried about the necessity of other options crowding out Grail. Realistically your team isn't gonna be OK with you skipping out on stuff like Locket or Mikael's if the game requirements and that means Grail, which is a luxury item, will be the one being ignored. That would be a massive pity because it's a really interesting and powerful support item, and I want it to be a success so enchanters can finally have a decent item system backing them up. You're totally right that Riot massively overdoes it with mana and CDR on support items. With a build of Watchers/Crucible/Ardent alone you're gonna have 550% mana regen going pretty much constantly (including your base 100%), which is just... unnecessary.

Penguin Eclipse1 votes

{quoted}

There are some other changes you forgot too, primarily the changes to bot lane items. item 3098 item 3092 item 3028 item 3174 item 3222 item 3302 item 3097 have all seen changes. The Relic Shield line is getting less sustain until it hits its final upgrade, the Spellthief's line is getting less mana regen after its first component, Chalice is losing Mana Font and gaining a more general sustain passive, Mikael's is increasing its mana regen all the way up to 150% (which is insane), and Grail is gaining a new identity as a mage support item. There's lots of room for the bot lane meta to shift with that.

Compared to the current passive I wouldn't say the crucible changes are all that insane. Nami and Sona can already burn through the mana regen provided by the Crucible and Frost Queen combined.

Earthlord Jazz4 votes

Overall, I'm pretty happy about these changes. The nerf to item 3025 and item 3068, as well as the reduced MR on item 3065 will hopefully give tanks less incentive to adopt the "metagolem". Looking forward to this aspect of the mid-year update

WoonStruck2 votes

List skarner as a benefactor from the cleaver changes.

Its actually a very significant item on him combined with warriors->tank.

ProfDrDeath1 votes

Good point. Although it should have said somewhere that the list of benefactors was not supposed to be exhaustive.

WoonStruck3 votes

Oh, I was just saying because it's actually a significant buff to Skarner. Not just because he could make use of the item.

Skarner has two main 'cores', so-to-speak.

Aggressive: item 1400 item 3071

Tank: item 1401 item 3025

Big Lincoln2 votes

holy hell, I didn't even see the tank item changes. item 1413 item 3083 are going to be amazing for Sejuani.

Not to mention Righteous Glory getting buffed. As loathe as I am to see Maokai getting even stronger, this is great just for most of the melees I love playing.

can't wait for the midseason

Only Play Darius2 votes

RIP Illaoi

DorkunedAuras9 votes

I'm not calling her OP or anything, but getting vesseled was just too rough of a punishment. Now you have to really dodge a bit of a bullet hell, but it's 12 seconds.

Vs 60 seconds of not being allowed to play.

Supreme Senpai692 votes

You had to destroy a tentacle and start backing within the same second or a new one would spawn and hit you, interrupting your back. :[

DorkunedAuras2 votes

I think it's even tighter than that, as if you take too long getting the two hits in, you still might get smashed. You essentially need an AA reset like Jax or Darius to cleanly do it.

doombotMECHA1 votes

or about 10 secs of you actually playing the minigame instead of whining about it on the boards (+getting 15 gold)

DorkunedAuras5 votes

it's a lot more than 10 seconds, especially when you get bad spawns that you can't get near because illaoi will jump on you.

Only Play Darius1 votes

I love jump-ulting people 100-0 because they felt they could take down tentacle close to me lol

Scoroct2 votes

Just a quick note, the tentacles spawn/attack more often during the vessel time making it more dangerous AND (this is kinda interesting) tentacles spawned from the vessel debuff can be closer to tentacles already on the wall. This means if she keeps landing E's the lane can quickly get more crowded with tentacles than currently possible.

Venedictos9 votes

What do you mean RIP? She's finally getting tentacles for when she needs them and there's no gimmicky mechanics to f*ck around with anymore. This change only makes her more fair to play against and more consistent to play as, in my eyes...

lightdragoon882 votes

I would add Aatrox XinZhao to the Bloodrazor, even though you have them under rageblade.

Also wouldn't Volibear benefit from it? Sure he won't have cinderhulk, but bloodrazor could be his only "attack" item with full tank after and the passive and the attack speed would make his W bite hurt a lot more against tanks.

Aakesh2 votes

Warmogs gives cdr the thing DrMundo and Garen like to build on top of item 3065

LankPants2 votes
  1. item 3124 is somewhat reworked. Now costs 3600 gold total, builds from item 1043 + item 1037 + item 1026 , has 30 AD, 50 AP and 15 magic on-hit, 6 stacks max with 1 stack/auto and 8% AS + 3 AD + 4 AP per stack and Phantom Hit (Sated's doubling of on-hit effects) at max stacks. From playing around with it on the PBE, it is a bit underwhelming currently, due to losing the AS on completion. I can see it being changed towards 25% AS upfront and 4% AS/stack in the future. Phantom Hit is far less bullshitty when it is gated behind a higher cost and a stacking mechanic and not combined with a powerful on-hit effect on the same item. Also, the emphasis on the AP component of the item makes it far less suitable for champions without AP ratios. Benefactors: Jax Irelia KogMaw XinZhao Kayle Aatrox , with especially Kayle and Kog having the potential to seriously break the item and get Phantom Hit nerfed for ranged champions.

You're overestimating this item. It requires 8 auto attacks before you get 1 proc. Melee champs like Irelia and Jax just aren't going to be able to use this item, they rarely auto attack enough to justify it. It pretty much looks like a Kog item, it will be broken on him and pretty worthless on everyone else.

Bodkins Odds4 votes

They lowered the stacks to 6. Since melee getting stacks twice as quickly was too good, while ranged having to attack eight times was a bit too much.

TotalJerk1 votes

That relic shield change is a gold income buff to tank supports.Also, why the fuck would they put CDR on Warmog?

World Ender3 votes

Very few CDR items for full tanks? Outside of spirit visage and the glacial shroud items there are no true tank items with CDR.

TotalJerk1 votes

item 3025 item 3110 item 3065 item 3056

If you're a support you've also got item 3401 and item 3190

Critmaster Garen1 votes

i generally like the changes to cleaver and warmogs. but the amount of hp reductions on items this season is getting excessive.

since preseason, riot has massively reduced health on multiple items and on masteries. including.

  • veteran scars lost 100 to 120 hp for health stackers
  • item 3071 lost 100 hp in favour of more ad (which is now partially removed)
  • item 3742 lost 100 hp
  • item 3053 lost 100 hp
  • item 3083 is going to lose 50 hp
  • item 3102 (though nieche item) loses 200 hp
  • item 3068 now loses 20 hp

meanwhile item 3143 gained 50 hp

if you look at those items individually, its not a loss of a lot of hp. but since this shit is going on all over the defensive itemization of bruisers and tanks, it stacks up to an incredible nerf.

if you built multiple of those items youre going to have 300 to 400 hp less than at the start of the season. even more when you took veteran scars. especially with a lot of champions who buy these items geared around max health scaling, and including item 3053 in their build which additionally lost 100 shield value as a result.

i think its time for compensation buffs to certain champions directly, if they keep removing hp from their items.

that line of thought of "health stackers wont notice 100 hp less on one of their items" doesnt hold up anymore, if you nerf almost every item by 100 hp across the board.

infact, theyll notice the loss of 400 health more than an assassin or adc, who buys a single defensive item and loses out on a 100.

ProfDrDeath3 votes

Sunfire loses no HP - only Bami's does.

While I generally would be inclined to agree with you, you also forget a few changes in HP that happened since the start of preseason:

  • item 3083 only lost the 50 HP it gained with the preseason changes, while gaining 10% CdR - imo, a worthy tradeoff (although sometimes I wish the stackable 1370 HP 'mog's from S2 back...those were the days...)
  • item 3065 gained 100 HP and 15 MR, and now only loses the 15 MR.
  • item 3071 had +15 AD in preseason. After these changes, it will still sit at +10. +10 AD, -100 HP, +100 cost is still a net gain.

What is also important to note in this context is the fact that item 3153 got a nerf in the preseason, when its passive was lowered to 6% current HP from 8%.

JerulEon1 votes

What made them want to increase CD of item 3363 ?

Besides that, all the changes actually look SO good. I'm excited cuz I like playing the champions that use Cinderhulk, Warmogs, and Black Cleaver. BC was so annoying to build.

ProfDrDeath2 votes

Probably the fact that everyone and their mother spammed the item, resulting in too much vision.

Yeah, me too. Top/ADC main myself, so not too terribly involved with the AP item changes (although I can see me purchase Vlad, now that he is less stupid).

Saixos1 votes

Irelia doesn't actually benefit from the rageblade changes, the price increase makes her get it later and makes getting both rageblade and triforce significantly more painful, and late game she would prefer a bork over rageblade.

Quinn doesn't benefit from bloodrazor either, she doesn't scale with as nor is she a good jungler anymore.

Venedictos2 votes

Phantom Hit will cause her W to double proc. That means she's getting double the true damage and double the healing. If you couple this change with Spirit Visage's one where they increased the healing amp it might be decent. As a first item rush it might be really bad to be honest, since you get no AS, but in theory, it should work great.

LankPants2 votes

You have to hit someone 8 times before your first double hit goes off, by this point you could have got an extra 2 AAs in if you just built BotRK, and that item's already outclassed by Triforce. Rageblade on the PBE isn't a good item for Irelia in any way, shape or form.

More from Gameplay

3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay764 comments
7,167
votes
3 Refunds per season, upvote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay156 comments
3,510
votes
UPVOTE FOR URF
Gameplay606 comments
2,440
votes
Yes plz.
Gameplay456 comments
1,721
votes
3 Refunds per season, up vote if you want 3 refunds per season.
Gameplay114 comments
1,716
votes
When is ANYONE at riot going to address the awful new player experience?
Gameplay634 comments
1,383
votes

More by ProfDrDeath

Boot Pouches - A Boot Enchantment
Gameplay43 comments
116
votes
Three things for Eggnivia
Gameplay96 comments
78
votes
Can we make Iceborn Gauntlet Melee only?
Gameplay112 comments
65
votes
[Season 6] Less obvious, but impactful changes
Gameplay64 comments
62
votes
New Classes/Subclasses List
Gameplay266 comments
57
votes
Riven is the Chuck Norris of League
Memes & Games78 comments
57
votes