Shaco Is Not Balanced

SirPurrr·May 9, 2018·19 votes·7,435 views

Shaco Counter Picks, Builds & Stats | Patch 8.9 | Diamond+

He's not the only champion with a lot of mains yet he's the only champion that literally goes even or beats EVERY SINGLE JUNGLER in the game at nearly all stages. Even his late game is bonkers. Because of his mobility and stealth, he basically can't die unless he screws up really hard. He becomes a split-push god and also a menace in teamfights with his crazy damage, CC from boxes, disruption etc. He has the highest winrate of any JG late game at 56%+.

I am annoyed by a lot of champs that I think are borderline OP, such as Udyr. However, Shaco is the only one that feels truly unfair to play versus. He has no true weak point and I've even seen some build a bit tanky and be effective.

33 Comments

Trash MammaIMay 9, 20187 votes

His early game is awful ever since the nerfs...he went from easily invading to easily being invaded. His late game is also awful the only reason it seems strong is because dark harvest works well on him and gives him a let game, if you manage to go against one of those shacos who pick eletrocute or lethal tempo he'll fall off massively hard. He's got no reliable CC due to his boxes being cancelled from sweeper and his only escape is his only engage.

I'm not judging you or your playstyle but if shaco is a problem you're likely in low elo, where he's actually good. He's awful against coordinated teams and can't do anything

exigentomicMay 9, 20182 votes

[{quoted}](name=Trash MammaI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U0BiPQJK,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-09T22:11:29.371+0000)

His early game is awful ever since the nerfs...he went from easily invading to easily being invaded. His late game is also awful the only reason it seems strong is because dark harvest works well on him and gives him a let game, if you manage to go against one of those shacos who pick eletrocute or lethal tempo he'll fall off massively hard. He's got no reliable CC due to his boxes being cancelled from sweeper and his only escape is his only engage.

I'm not judging you or your playstyle but if shaco is a problem you're likely in low elo, where he's actually good. He's awful against coordinated teams and can't do anything

His late game is not awful. He has had among the best winrates past 40 minutes for months now. I've even seen Lethal Tempo Bloodrazor tanky Shacos and they're a menace late game especially. Regular Shacos are still a hue slippery annoyance. It's so hard to play against. He disrupts your entire team, nearly 1 shots late while getting out fairly easily and running circles around you and can start sneaky splits that even stop you from grouping against him. I fear no jungler late as much as Shaco because they are much more predictable and easier to counterplay - this includes Yi, Mundo, Jax, Wu (although he's pretty bonkers late too), Udyr, Shyv etc. He just has insane outplay potential while being very hard to pin down and stop if he plays well. Even when he's doing nothin, you have to play in fear that he's hanging around somewhere near. His winrate continues to be fantastic at all stages even in Diamond+ and there are several Shaco one-tricks in Challenger. I agree that he seems most OP at lower ELO and vs uncoordinated teams but I think the only reason he isn't used in competitive is the massive skill investment to make his true power come to light. Moreover, JG has less old especially in lower kill games and handing off buffs etc. so it's harder to get your items in competitive. If they picked Shaco, they'd probably need a more supportive Top/Mid to funnel more gold into Shaco. Basically, the time investment to make Shaco work and the higher risk in using him is not really justifying the pick. Maybe they'd win 5-10% more but they'd have to put in 5x the effort compared to the normal strategies.

I'm not sure if Shaco is truly OP but he sure as hell feels OP whenever you face a good one.

5301May 10, 20182 votes

massive skill investment

This is not it at all. Shaco isn’t difficult to pick up. He’s also definitely near nowhere as hard to master as Azir, who does see play in competitive (when he’s strong of course.) My example isn’t fair at all, but my point is that it’s not about how difficult he is

The above comparison is unfair, but let’s contrast them now anyways: Azir has some versatility, Shaco doesn’t really have that. Actually, he does, but his versatility is unreliable. This would be a good time to compare him with his main competitor Kha’Zix, who does have (slightly) more versatility. Kha’Zix can AOE shred armor with a cleaver, pop squishy targets, kite with a slow, clean up, he even situationally DPSes tanks and quickly maneuvers around fights. Shaco’s utility is more limited

massive skill investment

Everything you said after this seems correct though

FrostQueensPlaneMay 9, 20183 votes

[deleted]

Slice n Dice emMay 10, 20181 votes

he has 55% WR in diamond with PR placing him 5th in diamond with 12k games while highest PR is of graves with 30k games but he is sitting on 52% WR. Yet people try to justify his broken-ness. hurr durr low elo...

LetYourSleepWaneMay 9, 20184 votes

I think his late game is too good for how strong his early to mid game is.

5301May 10, 20184 votes

His early is overrated by people who don’t actually play Shaco. I’m not saying that it’s awful like a lot of Shaco players do, but his E does less damage than his autos for the first 8 minutes of the game and his Q duration isn’t very reliable anymore. ~~There are also plenty of times where I have thought “if I was x I would’ve killed him” since once in a while Shaco’s damage early feels underwhelming~~

Jésus ToastMay 9, 20184 votes

As a Shaco main, a good one may seem very strong but the champ has MANY weaknesses. Many champions can delete him in 2-3 seconds level 1-5... Udyr, Shyvana, Graves...etc. You can easily grab a sweeper and throw it on the buff he starts and totally screw his early game as well. Want to stop Shaco? Have a tanky comp, if you're too tanky to get one shotted then Shaco is not very useful.

GrReaper96May 10, 20182 votes

This. Shaco has almost no continuous dmg or escape besides his R, which is pretty easy to guess. If he cant kil you in the first few seconds hes pretty much dead

CommanderKauMay 10, 20184 votes

'Shaco is the only one that feels truly unfair to play versus' - let me guess, you're a D5 ADC who instead of trying to improve at the game, complains to Riot because you can't be bothered learning to play against Shaco. I'm a Challenger Shaco, and you can ask others who play him in high elo, it's hard to do well in that elo because players have an understanding of how to play against Shaco and the meta isn't favourable. Ninja Tabis are still a massive cuck (Riot nrefed them btw), and most team comps are a massive cuck. Also, the fact you look at win rates for a champion sums it up. Please don't offer an opinion again when you have no idea about the champion, and when you're D5, cheers.

AzadetheMay 10, 20183 votes

Meh. I think D5 has some room to throw an opinion. He may not be able to argue on a scientific level, but if D5 is having a problem with Shaco, so is 97% of the community...... that are lower than D5.

Personally at a high elo and low elo meta, Katarina Yasuo MasterYi are getting more toxic, because of either having one of the most insidious assassin kits, or from changes to item 3124 and soon Essence Reaver, or how item 3072 synergizes with Yasuo 's shield to create vicious cycles of shield after shield on a champ that can spam kill.

I mean...... why did Riot add that little (but HUGE) change to Guinsoo's where after 3 stacks, Melees get full charged on it? Yi is almost not even on the ground to target anymore and soon, he's going to have less than a 1 sec cooldown on Q with the new Essence Reaver.

Yasuo building 3-4 Shields is just stupidly OP as well.

Shaco.... you just have to know his Camo duration, and have vision on him when he enters it.

Slice n Dice emMay 10, 20183 votes

don't believe some one about his rank when the person comments ABOUT RANK from a level 30 account un-ranked account. It might be just OTP bronze silver gold plat sheeter trying to justify the brokenness of a champion.

AzadetheMay 10, 20181 votes

I took the D5 from CommanderKau's response tbh. Didn't check OP rank. Just took the response's word for it.

But yeah.... Lolalytics is usually a reliable site, and he's using it for his argument. Shaco is annoying when played right.... I had one literally split push the entire game without actually engaging players..... he was amazing. The only reason I stopped him regularly, was because his path went through my wards occasionally. He got like 7 Turrets, because my team was pushing the team he was trying to carry, and by the time I saw him, I still had to burn ~ 20 seconds just to find him, and he'd get in 5-6 hits before my arrival.

The reason that game stood out to me was because of how well he avoided dying. The only times he died was when I collapsed on him while he was already attacking a turret/inhib. One time, he literally behaved like he was going to suicide on our fountain, and the very PIXEL before he got to our nexus turrets, he Decieved, and ran through 4 of my teammates who were all spread out, chasing him. Never once shimmered. Was outside the outer Base turret line by the time he appeared.

He had 336 CS almost completely unseen. Hyper carrying his loser team.

Imo, that kind of play is far more talented than just yolo assassinating.

GayFluffyUnicornMay 10, 20183 votes

Don't worry you'll be diamond once shaco gets nerfed.

144p alien p0rnMay 9, 20182 votes

Dark harvest

SirPurrrMay 9, 20186 votes

[{quoted}](name=144p alien p0rn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U0BiPQJK,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-09T20:57:04.888+0000)

Dark harvest

Dark Harvest is garbage on almost anyone who isn't Shaco though...

Chembaron YamadaMay 9, 20182 votes

His survivability is just insane. Blink with stealth + fearing traps + clone, it is nearly impossible to kill a Shaco who knows what he is doing.

FrostQueensPlaneMay 9, 20182 votes

[deleted]

wobajiMay 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

riot still hasn't nerfed khazix they can't even nerf something that overpowered you really think they know what's happening in the game they don't play

I'd much rather face Kha than Shaco. Shaco is much harder for me to kill and stop. Kha scales nowhere near as well either. The counterplay is way more obvious when facing Kha. Don't be isolated, group, etc. Shaco... nope. He still heavily disrupts fights and you can't see him a lot because he has stealth on a basic ability. If he really can't get work done, he'll just split-push very effectively and be uncatchable if you try to collapse. Yes, Shaco is much weaker early than Kha but I think if Shaco plays around his weaknesses very early, he's still going to be more useful quite fast. It's also more viable on Shaco to build tankier at times. I've seen Sunfire Shaco's with Bloodrazor still be annoying as hell.

5301May 10, 20182 votes

Lee Sin beats him pre 6 from my experience if you can manage to catch him in his jungle, land your Q and smite a box. Applies post 6 too if the Shaco doesn’t dodge Q and/or doesn’t dodge ult with his ult. During mid game, he can also peel effectively, tank a lot of his damage and match his burst

Nunu is Shaco’s worst matchup. He pretty much dictates early game and part of mid game and has the tools to make him useless in mid and late game. His ult makes it very difficult for Shaco to make a play on a squishy. I think Nunu also wins 2v2s and 3v3s if he is the one counterganking the Shaco

Shaco can’t compete with Rek’Sai if the Rek’Sai player can track Shaco and countergank. Rek’Sai also one shots pretty much everyone pre 6, not just Shaco. Post 6, Rek’Sai still has tremor sense if all else fails. But if Rek’Sai has a lead, Shaco shouldn’t be able to recover at all. Rek’sai’s early game is by far stronger than Shaco’s anyways

Graves outduels Shaco pre 6 if Graves isn’t low and isn’t forced to E before Shaco uses Q. Shaco also doesn’t get backstabs if Graves has a red buff and is forced to tank all 3 shots if he doesn’t leave immediately (or fight, but that doesn’t really work)

TLDR: try early game. That is where he is weakest

Zeppelins circusMay 10, 20181 votes

And to think a character which has a name "chaos" in anagrams is meant to be balanced orderly.

PeachsPropertyMay 10, 20181 votes

i took a 2yr break..but didnt they mention ages ago abotu a rework for him BECAUE he was too strong at splitpushing?

UpDownLeftRightABMay 10, 20181 votes

Removal of pink wards and oracles was a mistake.

Aliied champion1May 10, 20181 votes

I still remeber that time when I was ashe, did well early, but late game, shaco intrude through my team and insta kill me with static Shiv, IE, Dustblade, Hydra, Jg item, and boots

The PlaneswalkerMay 10, 20181 votes

So after early game ended Shaco magically gained 6 items and killed you?

Pika FoxMay 10, 20181 votes

If you think shaco beats any jungler at any stage of the game.... you dont know shaco or how the jungle works. Shaco does not want to interact with the enemy jungler at all unless he sets up some kind of cheese before hand. Jungle teemo walking into shaco can and will set him behind for the entire game. He is a very weak jungler with a very risky playstyle who requires a specific early game setup to function. If he gets invaded properly twice before he kills any jungle camps, he will never recover.

wobajiMay 10, 20181 votes

[{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U0BiPQJK,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-05-10T04:26:48.675+0000)

If you think shaco beats any jungler at any stage of the game.... you dont know shaco or how the jungle works. Shaco does not want to interact with the enemy jungler at all unless he sets up some kind of cheese before hand. Jungle teemo walking into shaco can and will set him behind for the entire game. He is a very weak jungler with a very risky playstyle who requires a specific early game setup to function. If he gets invaded properly twice before he kills any jungle camps, he will never recover.

Every jungler is useless in that situation...

Pika FoxMay 10, 20181 votes

Not true. Other junglers can at least clear the jungle. Shaco is notoriously terrible at clearing his own jungle, and relies heavily on ganks for gold to stay relevent. He has to set up boxes just to kill a single camp at lower levels, meaning if you stop his setup twice, either his team needs to hard leash for him, or he will still be level 1 while everyone else is level 4+.

Total EclipseMay 10, 20181 votes

lowkey facts tho. Shaco is one of the sleeper op champs atm.

BestPudgeNAMay 10, 20181 votes

{quoted}

lowkey facts tho. Shaco is one of the sleeper op champs atm.

Bro he anit sleeper OP he has been well know OP since the new rune system came out.

Suicidal ManiacMay 10, 20181 votes

I'm not quite sure why you think he's broken, he's very easy to invade, and loses quite a lot of 1v1 skirmishes early. He's very item related with his power spikes, and require you to position badly to do anything. A tip for you to make fighting him post 6 easier, if you ping onto shaco before he ults, the ping will stay on the real shaco, so it makes it easy to ignore the clone.