There are champions that basically represent the major issues with LoL.

Melledoneus··39 votes·14,118 views

##Let's go over them: Ornn Tanks need absurb damage and innately higher stats to be relevant, making them a chore to lane against and just extra damage counts during hectic fights. Khazix Assassins' existence is dependent on "how fast can I pump out 2.5k damage and will it kill my target," sucking the interactivity and fun out of the game. KogMaw An AD carry is a win condition. If you don't have a source of strong, sustained basic attack damage, you will be outpushed and outdamaged. Nothing lives under their fire, and nothing lives without one behind it. Nasus Late game champions are now being forced to have absurdly early powerspikes, undermining the entire existence of a "late game monster" when the late game has been pushed towards the 15 minute mark. AurelionSol Mages are determined to be useful by how hard they push a wave and how much damage they can pump out in a team fight. Utility is optional and is completely useless unless it is hard CC or amps up a hypercarry's path of destruction. Bard Utility in bot lane is far outclassed by the ability to deal damage. Healing and shielding is cool, and other neat tricks like making tunnels through terrain help, but umless you can burst the enemy laner down or lock them down you're at best a B-tier support. Zoe Champions are forced to either break the game in their favor when it comes to their unique qualities or they will be obsolete and forgotten for a while. Akali Champions with mobility and disengage tools can choose when to interact with their laner with precision, making laning against them very one-sided in their favor.


However, some champions' designs already have good solutions in them. For example:

Shen Tanks should build and have to utilize their kit to access their durability in creative ways. Leave the stat-checking for juggernauts. Ekko (I know he's not an assassin, bear with me) Require assassins to have some prior setup to their assassinations so that the more they plan, the smoother it goes. Make them work for a kill, not just dive-bomb for it. Jhin AD carries should be a class that have to choose their targets. Attack, move, be creative, use their skills fluidly in a fight and make your auto attacks count. Being a turret is not an expression of skill, and if anyone had a choice I doubt many who play that kind of playstyle would not. Viktor Late game champions should gradually grow stronger. Snowballing should not be a natural occurence. It must come with good play and good choices. Lissandra Damage shouldn't be up front. Each ability must have an impact that can be seen. A slow, a root, a stun. Having a mage who can add to a team without having to be a damage hose is refreshing design. Zilean Though he can deal some hefty damage, Zilean showcases that powerful utility can be annoying to face. And you can manipulate speed, create stun zones, and even cheat death. That is potentially great utility design that does not focus on just damage. Volibear Although this champion is awful to face, his speed boost displays good aggressive design. If mobility that can be used as disengage but rewards ballsy plays is used, champions can choose their fights but not by being a coward. They use the old noggin to pick their time to shine.

##What other design failures or potential solutions do you see in LoL? Please share and discuss.

94 Comments

saltran19 votes

A: Champs that I don't like

B: Champs that I like

Give me upvotes please.

Nevrankroaton2 votes

I am absolutely amazed that Melledoneus then goes and put "Shen" in list B...

It is like Malicious Metal coming, saying "Which champs are TRULY good and cool for the game" and the first place is "Mordekaiser". Or me putting Urgot as "Best design ever made forever".

Totally not biased and not an agenda.

Melledoneus3 votes

I mean, I only listed one good aspect of Shen, but if you'd like I can go over the bad.

-Cheap gimmicks that give too much power so they have to be kept short and clunky

-Global ultimate that should be used defensively is almost always used offensively as a free engage whenever Shen is in the meta. It gives him too much power without having to do much other than watch the map.

-Laning phase is extremely polarized: you either stomp your enemy or your enemy denies you the ability to even farm, regardless of skill.

-Oppressive against immobile champions, oppressed by mobile champions.

-Damage is too high for empowered Q autos, you can shred someone to 40% HP at level 1 with one full round of it.

-Is classified as a tank but is rewarded for building items like Titanic Hydra and playing like a bruiser/diver.

-W is too strong when utilized correctly, but very hard to utilize outside of 1v1s.

-Spirit Sword Mechanic is clunky and lazy. There is only one non-ultimate way to move it and it means your only real combo without pre-placement is always going to be the same.

-Shen isn't encouraged too heavily to combo or keep fighting by his kit. So he has to play a hit-and-run fighting style like a skirmisher to be effective, but fixing this issue would mean Shen has a constant uptime on his skills.

-Non-existent AP scalings mean Shen is fated to either build tank or attack speed bruiser. There is no AP Shen.

That's a few off the top of my head.

Cowgirl Ed2 votes

Revert Shen already

Jerry SeinfeId12 votes

Akali is really only a problem as a toplaner. If a mage can't interact with akali idk wtf they've been popping but that's some crazy mellow out shit.

Bard DMG is good, Utility is good. Imagine having both.

Shen good thing his durability only works vs auto's now. Champ got punched to the ground, kicked and then spit on. BRING BACK SHEN.

Jhin Stop, this shit is getting boring. "jhin is the best designed adc" but also "ADC shouldn't do so much dmg in one auto", literally the hardest hitting adc, who kites easier then frickin ezreal, has jinx passive on crit and hits harder than draven. but he's the best design cuz of his ammo system? please that's bs.

now for my personal take on bad design.

Vladimir do i even need to say anything? Builds full ap + item 3065 and tanks longer than most tanks/juggs/offtanks while still doing mage lvls of dmg. Oh and then there's his pool, and you thought fizz was annoying.

Azir High dmg from untargetable minions, yeh seems great. atleast i can kill heimer turrets to get past them, this dude hides behind a bunch of untargetable Damage puppets. Feels horrible to play against.

Camille you know when you can dash from lane to red buff and aren't using your ult for it(Warwick) something's fucking wrong.

Melledoneus5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TzPEop4K,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-07-03T12:19:06.880+0000)

Akali is really only a problem as a toplaner. If a mage can't interact with akali idk wtf they've been popping but that's some crazy mellow out shit.

If a champion has to be uninteractive to lane you can't say that's healthy design.

Shen good thing his durability only works vs auto's now. Champ got punched to the ground, kicked and then spit on. BRING BACK SHEN.

I am resisting my most primal urges here to rant. But I will resist.

now for my personal take on bad design.

Vladimir do i even need to say anything? Builds full ap + item 3065 and tanks longer than most tanks/juggs/offtanks while still doing mage lvls of dmg. Oh and then there's his pool, and you thought fizz was annoying.

Vlad used to be one of my favorite champions when I started the game, but now this new crit mechanic on his Q only makes him a burst mage with bulk and sustain. He used to take longer to kill people unless you built full AP, in which case you built for it, so I guess. But now he can build like a bruiser and still get that damage off. Hats off for identifying this one, I don't know how I missed it.

Azir High dmg from untargetable minions, yeh seems great. atleast i can kill heimer turrets to get past them, this dude hides behind a bunch of untargetable Damage puppets. Feels horrible to play against.

Azir's design will always be an issue. A mage-ADC will never be fun to lane against or play against.

Camille you know when you can dash from lane to red buff and aren't using your ult for it(Warwick) something's fucking wrong.

Camille is a mess of a champion, and she needs some serious tweaks if she can have that many crazy tools in her inventory. As for Warwick... I don't even want to go with how difficult it is to even avoid that ultimate without flash. Oftentimes it pulls a Blitz hook and latches, other times it clips right through the target. It needs serious tweaks, like many skillshots in the game.

Acheron162 votes

Azir wouldn't be a problem if his Q had a decent cooldown, meaning that if mispositioned he would be punished.

But 2 second Q cooldown with CDR (that he gets anyway) means he not only bursts when using Q, but can easily cover his mistakes.

TheGreatNinx1 votes

Jhin kites better then ezeral? I mean I sure wish Jhin an ability that he could buffer to get out of hooks, pulls, reposition from a point click stun, etc and have that ability cd redcued by landing a q. All Jhin does is run REALLY fast. His auto Hurts alot but then again he has 4 shots kill ya. which isn't happening if you're hiting a tank. Also he has to get fed(I mean really fed. He's really reliant on items) It's just like any other mage, juggernaut, bruiser, assassin that can 100-0 someone with two abilites if their 5/0 v.s someone 0/0/0, 0/5/0 / 1/1/1. So on and so forth.

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

"Let's forget about jhin's utility and twist your words so it fits my narrative. "

If both are played perfectly ezreal kites really well, especially if you build ibg like some kinda loser.

But jhin runs fast as hell, and depending on what time in the game he isn't gonna stop. And then you can still riot or stun (idk for sure which one it is in this case) your opponent.

Now let's take a closer look at what I actually said:

Who kites easier then frickin ezreal,

I'm sorry but I think the fact that ezreal really has nothing aside from his e that really helps him kite makes it harder. Ezreal has to use a high base CD ability and rely on it 100%. He also needs to q and preferably AA in between his kiting, constantly.

If jhin runs he runs, sure you might miss your stun, you fucked up but you'll just keep running fast as hell anyway. He just has to auto 4 times and if they're not backing off by then you're most likely outta there anyway.

You can say w/e you want but jhin's design isn't some crazy perfect adc type of thing like some People make it out to be. We can keep discussing this but it's pointless, I don't think he's a problem or bad design. He's just not perfect

TheGreatNinx1 votes

Yea no thats not what happen. Him having high movement speed doesn't compare to having a blink. Can never really. Yes this is pointless since I'm talking to a person who can't accept when he is wrong and he is the perfect example of an adc should be.

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

Yea no thats not what happen. Him having high movement speed doesn't compare to having a blink. Can never really. Yes this is pointless since I'm talking to a person who can't accept when he is wrong and he is the perfect example of an adc should be.

You're a perfect example of the jhin circlejerk.

Ezreals blink is incredibly good and makes him one of if not THE safest adc in the game. but there's plenty of champs with ALOT more mobility compared to ezreal.

according to you i'm wrong, very well i might be. Maybe my experience when i play these champs is somehow wrong. Then i have to ask you just one question. Can you tell me why ezreal is EASIER to kite with compared to jhin?

You told me ezreal Kites better than Jhin. I'm not talking about effectiveness but ease of use.

At max lvl ezreal will still have a 9 sec cd on e without cdr while Using Q perfectly on cd and landing it.

The fact that jhin only has to take 4 shots, all ending up at around 1 AS at 18 (i think? wiki is weird on as but i'm pretty sure it's something like that). So to use jhin's kiting at max efficiency you only need to be able to stutterstep once a second. Which is much easier than let's say jinx or kog if they actually manage to hit 2.5 (or higher in jinx' case) who have to stutterstep at a much faster rate. But this is about ezreal. Sure, kiting as ezreal is possible with just your Q and if you have ibg it's the easiest shit ever (and you're a loser for using it unless the enemy team has full ad and assassins). BUT that's not ezreals full potential, at full potential ezreal would be firing his Q, while stutterstepping with his auto's and using his W and E.

Which is why a silver player (like me and you) uses Jhin much better than we most likely use ezreal.

Now i've given you some arguments, all you've done is tell me they're bullshit without giving me a better argument than "Jhin needs to get ahead" as if ezreal doesn't. So if you would be so kind to either Shut up and not attack me instead of debating with me or give a solid argument, i'd really appreciate that.

TheGreatNinx1 votes

Ezeral doesn't need to be ahead to kite. Jhin does. Atleast for what your bitching about atleast. Q ezeral isn't hard to land lol. It's hit box is quite big. I actually play ezeral better the Jhin but I don' t like bot lane no more due to the constant state of chaos it's in. Your great example of the circle jerk hate on Jhin don't want there to be a "perfect adc". All because you don't like what is Jhin doesn't make you right ;0

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

I never said i dislike playing jhin, In fact i think he is quite fun. i never said ezreal q is hard to land.

Your great example of the circle jerk hate on Jhin don't want there to be a "perfect adc".

This doesn't make sense, i'm talking about the circlejerk that jhin is the perfect adc. And as much as you might want it there is never gonna be a perfect adc, or bruiser, or mage, ...

and once again you start talking about me and not my actual arguments, or well you did kinda i guess "Q ezeral isn't hard to land lol" which is besides the point.

All because you don't like what is Jhin doesn't make you right ;0

Good thing you aren't biased right? That makes YOU right because jhin is clearly perfect. not your arguments, not you debasing mine, just the fact that you like jhin and i clearly hate the champ so much and not just people who might aswel be jerking him off.

Glad we figured that out.

Eons31 votes

{quoted}

Jhin kites better then ezeral? I mean I sure wish Jhin an ability that he could buffer to get out of hooks, pulls, reposition from a point click stun, etc and have that ability cd redcued by landing a q. All Jhin does is run REALLY fast. His auto Hurts alot but then again he has 4 shots kill ya. which isn't happening if you're hiting a tank. Also he has to get fed(I mean really fed. He's really reliant on items) It's just like any other mage, juggernaut, bruiser, assassin that can 100-0 someone with two abilites if their 5/0 v.s someone 0/0/0, 0/5/0 / 1/1/1. So on and so forth.

Mate....Play ezreal against cho gath, eat the silence with rylais into the q then flash R watch yourself die. Now play jhin into cho gath. Eat the rylais as you auto cho, run from one side of the cho q to the other fire another attack off then run back through the q and watch it explode behind you. Jhin is a god at dodging any and all skillshots. Jhin with swifties kills chogath in lane, when chogath is playing the most defensive possible, simply by never taking damage from anything other htan cho's w Jhin with stormrazor..... broken. Jhin is a bad design not for the 4 bulletes, but because the 4 bullets have to be equally as strong as 35 from kogmaw or master yi, for him to not be underpowered.

D357R0Y3R6 votes

Jhin AD carries should be a class that have to choose their targets.

which is what any AD carry does

Attack, move

see above, and with Jhin it's so easy due to his low attack speed

be creative

non sense

use their skills fluidly in a fight

see above

and make your auto attacks count.

? which AD carry doesn't do that?

you know why i'm talking about jhin because he's fucking aids but the boards is biased towards him

in lane he does nothing but spams Q and you can't approach him when he has hit 4th shot but also can't make use of his weakness because of his bonus movement speed on crit his low attack speed makes him so braindead because anyone including non adc mains can orbwalk with him while having the same outcome than anyone that mastered the art of orbwalking because of how his AAs hit hard even with a low attack speed

Fuck Jhin

saltran4 votes

{quoted}

which is what any AD carries do

see above, and with Jhin it's so easy due to his low attack speed

non sense

see above

? which AD carry doesn't do that?

you know why i'm talking about jhin because he's fucking aids but the boards is biased towards him

in lane he does nothing but spam Q and you can't approach him when he has hit 4th shot but also can't make use of his weakness because of his bonus movement speed on crit his low attack speed makes him so braindead because anyone including non adc main can orbwalk with him while having the same outcome than anyone that mastered the art of orbwalking because of how his AAs hit hard even with a low attack speed

Fuck Jhin

The loving Jhin ciclejerk is absurd to the point is funny now.

Jerry SeinfeId4 votes

It's the only reason i can't stand the champ. He's fun to play and his lore is ok but fuck his fanbase.

Melledoneus4 votes

He's the only ADC that isn't "right-click to win" right now, unfortunately. I wish I had a better example, but...

Graves is the closest other thing I could find but his design is awful.

Jerry SeinfeId7 votes

WHAT? he still relies on auto attacks for most of his damage. Idk why people think he plays so much different. if anyone the only not "right click to win" maksman is ezreal. and people still hate him.

Melledoneus3 votes

Yes, Jhin relies on his autos, but he doesn't pump out auto attacks at lightspeed while basically standing still and melting people, only moving to mow down the next person.

His damage is more sustained burst and he has actual damage downtimes where he has to reload, as opposed to Kog'maw or Lucian who almost constantly can melt people down no matter what time of day it is.

Jerry SeinfeId4 votes

Yes, Jhin relies on his autos, but he doesn't pump out auto attacks at lightspeed while basically standing still and melting people, only moving to mow down the next person.

no he doesn't, which is why he's easier to kite with to me atleast. When i'm playing jinx i can choose t keep running or turn around and deal dmg but lose some distance on the enemy who's running forward. and unless i can kill them before they get there, YIKES. When i play jhin i know that if i crit i'mma run around at the speed of sound. got places to go, gotta follow my rainbow.

His damage is more sustained burst and he has actual damage downtimes where he has to reload, as opposed to Kog'maw or Lucian who almost constantly can melt people down no matter what time of day it is.

Koggers is a special case because his shred gets so dumb he's basically bursting you down. Lucian is bad design imo, can't stand the champ, the passive combined with his dash are imo what gives him so much burst.

Other than that the only adc who comes close in burst is tristana, who's secondary role has always been assassin. The grenade allows for burst but even though it resets her jump (which imo is the only thing that makes her real stupid when she's good) it's got a pretty long cd. which is when she relies on being a crit adc.

######oh and 30 minutes dark harvest, sudden impact,Gathering storm, duskblade, statik shyv twitch.... yeh that's some nice burst but then you're building for it and it's quite a horrible early game and far from his optimal build. it's fun tho, real fun...

But in the end, jinx is only gonna auto as much as i can stutterstep. At 2.5 AS i most likely can't keep up with her anymore, ofc it will still make it easier for me i won't deny that. But the only time i actually just go for the statcheck is 1v1 against another adc or yi. On jhin i don't really have to worry about that as he attacks fairly slow but makes up for it by pretty much dealing double dmg per auto, giving me much more time to think about where i wanna be after my next shot. The ms really helps for that too.

I wanna make this clear: I don't think He's an issue to the game, i dont think his design is bad and i do think he's a fun champ who brings some unique mechanics. But i really don't think he's that great of a design compared to other adc. The only time i think he's been broken was the lethality adc meta. It's mainly the goddamn circlejerk that bother me.

Melledoneus1 votes

Then I guess I have to ask: which ADC doesn't rely on simply melting people down with minimal skill?

What's the best example of that we have?

Jerry SeinfeId1 votes

if by minimal skill you mean being auto attack based and by adc you mean marksmen then: Ezreal "it's all skill" Everything he does that REALLY gonna hurt you is a skillshot you can dodge. but the community still calls him a braindead Q spam champ so i guess not.

Imo the hardest ADC is Draven . And i'm talking about triple axe type of stuff here, not "i got 2 kills fed to me and now i'm hitting half ur hp cuz i cashed in". His skillcap is pretty high.

As much as i think her kit is bs (though i do really enjoy playing her) Vayne has a pretty high Skillcap too.

And i guess Kalista , but that's a champ i'd rather not talk about, especially not in a positive way.

Thing is, NONE of the champs in this game are extremely hard to play (not master). Saying what adc do is minimal skill is unfair. Especially when your example of a good adc is jhin, who honestly is far from the hardest. 4 auto's and 1 of them is one of the safest things in the game (incredible zoning as well as no punishment because of the ms that's on it), a click on and 2 straight skillshots. if that's all it takes to be more mechanically intensive then there's really only one answer to your question:

It's all Skill baby.[sg-ezreal]

######my most played marksmen are jinx, teemo, twitch, ezreal, kaisa in that order to be transparent.

Acheron163 votes

Every single ADC needs to position and reposition themselves well otherwise they will be obliterated, unless they are massively ahead or fighting a solo tank (and even then...)

Teridax685 votes

Aatrox In a game with a near-infinity of potential playstyles and identities, champions are being designed in a manner that overlaps far too heavily with preexisting kits.

Yasuo In a bid to make champions individually successful, many of them have been given a design that cannibalizes the agency of others to add to their own, making themselves fun at everyone else's expense.


Bard Proof that champions can be original, fun to play, and still really fun to play against.

Warwick Proof that even champions that seem unworkably bad can be made good, with the right amount of design adjustments, so long as those changes aim to preserve their identity.

TempName548464 votes

i'm not surprised that a moderator made a post that accurately reflects their ladder ranking :^)

Mages are determined to be useful by how hard they push a wave and how much damage they can pump out in a team fight.

all of the mages on top of the win ratios are utility mages, funny how you would use a champion with a perma slow, aoe stun and an aoe knockback as an example for utility doesn't matter though.

nasus was never a late game champion, bard is damage focused? literally every ability in his kit provides utility lmao. ekko, shen, zilean and liss being "good design" is a top meme though.

HalcyonDweller8 votes

{quoted}

i'm not surprised that a moderator made a post that accurately reflects their ladder ranking :^)

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/173/576/Wat8.jpg

Your attitude stinks. What's your beef with the mods?

TempName548462 votes

what do you mean? its an high quality well informed post by a high ranking member of this community.

nah but i just find it ironic how out of touch the mods of GAMEPLAY board are with the actual gameplay, of course the main qualifier for mods is their sjw and white knight power level so that's why its not surprising.

HalcyonDweller4 votes

Are you just here to show off your opinion? Or do you want to have an actual discussion?

You can sass others or you can be persuasive, pick one. You can't have both.

TempName548462 votes

i'm here to preach the truth, do with it what you will.

HalcyonDweller3 votes

That's not an answer. Try again.

TempName548462 votes

it is an answer, it means that i'm not here to show off my opinion, have an discussion or be persuasive.

HalcyonDweller2 votes

I asked what your motive was. "To preach," is not a real motive, it's a method.

What is your personal motivation for coming here and saying that stuff?

TempName548462 votes

i'm here to enlighten the children so they aren't baited by the misinformation spread by the devil

HalcyonDweller3 votes

"Personal motivation"

Do you know what a personal motive is?

Ranmaru4 votes

{quoted}

"Personal motivation"

Do you know what a personal motive is?

Okay just stop its an waste of your time replying to his posts hes obviously trolling hopefully

HalcyonDweller4 votes

No hopefully about it. That's exactly what's going on. Thanks for pointing it out, I can ignore it now.

I still don't understand how/why they feel the need to do that. Like what happens in somebody's life to make them feel the need to be so difficult? Whatever it was, it can't have been good for him, the poor sap.

Melledoneus5 votes

{quoted}

i'm not surprised that a moderator made a post that accurately reflects their ladder ranking :^)

https://media.makeameme.org/created/Touche-cggwx0.jpg

Unstoppable Monk3 votes

Yasuo Lux FizzGaren Teemo Zed Talon Literally everything wrong with the game in ranked matchmaking since season 3.

TekkenPlayer5 votes

[{quoted}](name=Unstoppable Monk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TzPEop4K,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-03T06:43:36.084+0000)

Yasuo Lux FizzGaren Teemo Zed Talon Literally everything wrong with the game in ranked matchmaking since season 3.

How is Lux or Talon a problem?

Lux's kit has several ways to counter against and has weaknesses Talon's burst pattern is extremely straightforward but can be avoided with good laning mechanics. The only issue is item 3147

Amoc2 votes

[{quoted}](name=AÏnz Ooal Gown,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TzPEop4K,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-07-03T07:54:00.171+0000)

How is Lux or Talon a problem?

Lux's kit has several ways to counter against and has weaknesses Talon's burst pattern is extremely straightforward but can be avoided with good laning mechanics. The only issue is item 3147

Talon's a low-skill point and click champion. Duskblade makes it worse, definitely, but electrocute is just as bad. Talon's combo is impossible-to-fail and he has numerous safe ways of escaping.

Lux is just an obnoxious champ. Her cooldowns are way too low, but at least everything she does is a skillshot. The problem is that when your cooldowns are that low, you can just fish with them and spam indiscriminately. By mid game, all she needs to do is land either a Q or an E and follow up with a 40s cd ult for a kill against anything squishy. Even bruisers lose half their health to that combo...

Did I mention how short the cooldown is on her ult?

Misses Old Talon1 votes

[{quoted}](name=Unstoppable Monk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TzPEop4K,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-03T06:43:36.084+0000)

Yasuo Lux FizzGaren Teemo Zed Talon Literally everything wrong with the game in ranked matchmaking since season 3.

Since season 3? Old Talon was one of the most balanced assassin's in the game after they removed his silence, and new Talon's early to mid game rely on an enemy actually giving him both hits of rake (so a bronzie.) The only issue right now is the fact that Duskblade just gives too much upfront burst. If dusk wasnt in the game, you'd never see new Talon outside of the pro scene due to his massive roaming potential and ability to disrupt others via pressence alone.

Unstoppable Monk1 votes

[{quoted}](name=ShoutCaster Yi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TzPEop4K,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-07-04T05:53:37.599+0000)

Since season 3? Old Talon was one of the most balanced assassin's in the game after they removed his silence, and new Talon's early to mid game rely on an enemy actually giving him both hits of rake (so a bronzie.) The only issue right now is the fact that Duskblade just gives too much upfront burst. If dusk wasnt in the game, you'd never see new Talon outside of the pro scene due to his massive roaming potential and ability to disrupt others via pressence alone.

I'm not going to explain myself to a bunch of downvoting plebs that are mostly wrong, but talon was a little tacked on as I should have said season 4 so you were the only one with a point.

Stars Shaper3 votes

Honestly, if I had to make Aurelion Sol the portray of an ingame issue I'd say: The need of constant roaming (especially to botlane).

Teamfight damage is exactly what mages should be good at since most of them are based on AoE damage.

OurLestrade3 votes

I like how Shen taps into the newer % health damage on tanks craze whilst still giving it a mechanical edge, since he needs to land a Q skill shot and then auto attack to get his damage off which gives enemies several avenues to evade him. He doesn't just press a button then do max health damage.

nelogis2 votes

What other design failures or potential solutions do you see in LoL? Please share and discuss.

At this point the right question is if anyone sees a good design choice, if you ask the other way around then half the people here will give you a 30 page essay.

EDIT: I included a TL:DR at the end since this became a huge wall of text.

But if I had to chose then I would say the rune rework was a massive failure. The general idea of making them free and easier to understand was good but the problem is that they mashed 2 system into 1 and didn't realize that the old runes system wasn't actually doing anything.

What I mean is that almost everyone ran the same rune pages. So almost everyone had +XY AD/AP +9 Armor +12MR. So if everyone is doing X damage more but is Y more tanky then in a mathematical sense everybody is still at 0, so the runes equaled themselfes out between everyone in the game.

The difference were the masteries. Those gave power relative to the champion. If a champion was able to use those masteries better than the other than the masteries gave that champion more power than to the other. The good thing was that the mastiers weren't that impactful (well after the nerfs to TLD / CoC / WLB) in the early game.

So theoretically seen you only had the mastery system to fiddle around with most of the time (of course some champs ran different rune pages and what not but everyone had some damage and some resistances slapped onto it in the general sense).

So the new rune system has the strength of 2 systems in it, the problem being that offensive/defensive isn't being equaled out.

Sorcery + Dominion is the equivalent of packing AD runes in every singe rune slot and going 12/18/0 on the masteries. What lunatic would ever want to do that. But it gets even worse, the base stat buffs that went along with the rune update are 50% of the time totally worthless. So you got +9 base armor... nice let's see how that works out against Fizz, will for sure turn out great!

So not only do you HAVE to go full balls to the walls damage (since let's say your champion can not use the Tank tree that well) you also take MORE damage 50% of the time since you can't change the +9 Armor to MR or something like that.

What does that lead into? Pretty simple, in the late game you won't feel anything since you always got nuked in the late game when you were a squishy, the difference lies in the early game. Thats the time where you truly see the damage increase. Which in return leads to people getting blown up left and right, which leads to faster/more snowbally games, which leads to shorter games which then ties to a point of yours.

Now you also asked for a solution and of course I have one.

I think the right solution would be to first revert the base stat buffs done to every champ. Then decrease the power of the runes to the power of the old mastery system and remove the additional base stats the rune trees give. Then revert the penetration stat buffs to the items that came along with the rune update. Then add another system to fiddle around with base stats.

The new system could look something like this:

You can use a total of 3 points

Defensive:

  • Increase base HP by 70
  • Increase base Armor by 9
  • Increase base MR by 12

Offensive:

  • Increase base AD or AP (adaptive) by 8AD or 11AP
  • Increase base penetration by 8 magic pen or 11 armor pen (adaptive)
  • Increase attack speed by 15%

Utility:

  • Increase base CDR by 10%
  • Increase base mana by 100 (or energy by 20)
  • Increase base movementspeed by 4.5%

So you can chose 3 buffs to slap onto your champion before every game. What this does it basically kind of reverts the rune change without actually reverting the whole thing. Of course this only works if the runes get reduced in power by a lot.

You can also make a "derp" tree where the 1% crit rune is in or the +6% experience gained or the -15% death timer. That would be fun.

Now I think you were more asking about champion specific design problems but the rune system is creating a lot of those champion specific design problems (like scaling champs scaling way too fast) that I thought this would fit here.

Edit: #TL:DR I think the increase of rune power (especially in the early game) and the inability to effectively tweak your defensive stats has lead to a lot of champions not working out anymore, which then lead to buffs/nerfs that created design flaws (like scaling champs scaling too fast, prime example here is Nasus) or the abundance of true damage in the game right now.

Ulquiorra01231 votes

Or they could just nerf everything's base damage in the game by about 33% in one big patch. That would also get the same thing you are trying to achieve.

saltran1 votes

Bard Utility in bot lane is far outclassed by the ability to deal damage. Healing and shielding is cool, and other neat tricks like making tunnels through terrain help, but umless you can burst the enemy laner down or lock them down you're at best a B-tier support.

Yeah but somehow the most used supps on pro play are catchers like Morgana Rakan or tanks like TahmKench Braum Alistar, and aswell you see more enchanters than mage supps.

And for soloQ the strongest supp is still Nami but OK, lets forget all the time that the enchanters were topping the winrate supps with aswell high playrates just because they were nerfed like 2 patches ago.

ChaddyFantome1 votes

{quoted}

Yeah but somehow the most used supps on pro play are catchers like Morgana Rakan or tanks like TahmKench Braum Alistar, and aswell you see more enchanters than mage supps.

And for soloQ the strongest supp is still Nami but OK, lets forget all the time that the enchanters were topping the winrate supps with aswell high playrates just because they were nerfed like 2 patches ago.

the only enchanter that was topping any charts was Janna and Sona.

saltran2 votes

the only enchanter that was topping any charts was Janna and Sona.

And Nami who had the highest winrate for soloQ supps since the meme" nerfs to Janna W and was top 2 before that.

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