"Bard's W costs 100 mana to heal 70 health after 10 seconds."

Theorchero··24 votes·2,774 views

LOL Ok, let's reduce his mana cost on W to 50. Then you'll realize how insane his mana regeneration is from chimes.

His problem IMO is that it takes too many chimes to scale to the point that your passive is useful. It does excellent poke damage but the important bit, the aoe large slow, is hard to come by until really late game. They need to reduce the thresholds of chime requirements and then slightly slow the spawn rate. Improving where they spawn is also ideal. They can often spawn in the enemy jungle at 12 minutes where it's super fucking risky to collect them. I'd like to see the chimes grant a larger MS boost and then decay so that they are useful to collect during an escape.

His ultimate is situational, but his Q range needs to be buffed a little bit.

Apart from passive tweaks and range on Q I find he's in a good spot.

Potential Solutions

  • Increase Chime spawns/safety or reduce requirements for bonuses
  • Increased Q range
  • Make his W more mana efficient by increasing the movement speed bonus over the duration as well

These are just a few solutions I've thought of. I think overall Bard is in a good spot, but his weakness in his mana inefficient W is his biggest problem. It's movement speed doesn't scale, has shit base heal, and takes 10 seconds to heal for a half decent amount. The tradeoff of leaving it somewhere doesn't matter because past super early levels the heal amount is literally irrelevant. The main reason I believe the cost is so high is because otherwise he'd spam it too much because of the insane mana regen his chimes offer. However, they can provide additional incentive to let it charge by increasing the MS over time and buffing the bases a little. I mean really, there's ZERO reason to max it second because it's base and scaling is so shit. Sure the travel time on E is kinda nice but the main reason I max it second is because W is useless to put points into.

Edits:

{quoted}

Riot could also have it charge quicker based on CDR. So if it's a 10 second charge, max CDR will have it charge in 6 seconds.

Just an idea.

{quoted}

They need to change the shrines in general. Come late game, you either

A: Plop them on someone for a speed boost B: Put them down, and hope someone grabs it before the team shifts to a different location

Ain't nobody got 10 seconds late game.

These are both good ideas, I think the full heal should scale down with rank in W. 10 seconds at rank 1, 2 seconds at rank 5.

10/8/6/4/2.

{quoted}

The flat heal on his heal for target casting it should scale better with AP IMO. Right now he's not really incentivised to build ANY stat, so people just go tanky CDR. Also giving the heal a different effect with target casted on an enemy would help him out a lot too.

I've been thinking about this for a while. I think his W should slow and reveal enemies if they run across one. That would make it useful to ward brushes with.

{quoted}

Top suggestions I've come across:

W-give it %max health healing, lower the time to charge.

Passive-lower meep scaling increments to every 4th chime.

I do like these but changing too many things at once is a great way to turn Bard into Yasuo.

I think for now optimizing where chimes spawn (Don't spawn in enemy jungle until later in the game, chimes don't spawn until 1:40 but more of them spawn at once. This prevents chimes spawning top/mid if you donate shrines early in game) and fixing his heal mana inefficiency would go a long way. Give it a decent ap scaling, and reduce charge time either by rank or by CDR.

27 Comments

Zmuecat6 votes

Riot could also have it charge quicker based on CDR. So if it's a 10 second charge, max CDR will have it charge in 6 seconds.

Just an idea.

Teridax681 votes

I agree with this. Adding to that, I think leveling up W should reduce its charge-up time, so that a late-game shrine should only take about 3-4 seconds to fully charge with CDR, perhaps even less. It makes sense for the ability to take some time to get to full strength early on, when Bard can drop a couple under a turret and give allied laners a huge amount of additional safety, but later in the game the ability becomes really sub-par, even with its movement speed boost. Although right now the heal is mostly used later on as an instant-cast ability, I think there could be a lot of gameplay behind withholding the opportunity for a heal for just a few more seconds in order to reap much greater benefits, and the ability needs to be made more interesting as a late-game healing/mobility tool.

SIayton6 votes

The flat heal on his heal for target casting it should scale better with AP IMO. Right now he's not really incentivised to build ANY stat, so people just go tanky CDR. Also giving the heal a different effect with target casted on an enemy would help him out a lot too.

Ghiefelstein2 votes

Yes, it is strange that Bard has no utility scaling. I wonder why.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

"Utility scaling"

Perhaps they're finally done with that bad joke?

"We're going to nerf CC, buffs, and damage across the board; but only move speed modifiers will actually gain scaling."

Zmuecat2 votes

"And then we'll nerf supports more because they were taken to solo lanes so they could take advantage of their AP ratios."

Don't get me wrong, I can understand why you wouldn't want traditional supports in solo lanes ALL the time. Most of them will prevent or erase anything the enemy does if they get even a little ahead, while discouraging any melee (and sometimes ranged) from even attempting to CS, especially old Soraka. But come on.

Ariel the Cruel2 votes

Most of them will prevent or erase anything the enemy does if they get even a little ahead

Akali I don't prevent or erase anything when I get ahead.

Katarina Except the survival of you and your team.

Fiora But that's perfectly acceptable.

TheEloGoblin3 votes

Healing? Sona

Audiomancy2 votes

What even is mana efficiency?

Theorchero2 votes

b

Stark60002 votes

they hate healing, period

Br4ndon1 votes

{quoted}

they hate healing, period

They used to hate healing. If they still did they wouldnt have let sorakas rework go through.

I remember reading Morellos blog about how healing creates a none interactive play style, but i guess they changed their minds. When i play soraka my ADC can get really aggressive and trade very often, so in my experience its only made more interaction.

Anidan1 votes

Wasn't that more true when it was more common to have supports who could heal on both sides, rather than something like Soraka, Sona or Nami v. Thresh, Blitz, Leona, Nautilus, Lulu and so on?

Back when seeing Soraka v Taric was more common, fights were pretty rare in bot lane because any damage done was just negated while Soraka and Taric had a vision war to last the ages as the ADCs just idly farmed, knowing any poke would be made moot after that vision war calmed briefly.

That said, I've observed the same lately: If you have sustain as a support, you and your ADC tend to be able to be more aggressive to the enemy team, and if they have sustain as well it tends to seesaw. It's interesting, if still a little dull.

qetzel1 votes

They changed Soraka specifically so she would have interaction. To keep healing she needs to pay health. To regain health she needs to hit enemies with a skillshot that is fairly easy to dodge at high ranges.

Add to that her low ranged heal and the enemy can actually respond.

Champion's like Sona and Nami are not allowed very strong heals for this reason - they could otherwise heal a large proportion of damage dealt, effectively invalidating the enemies work, with a cost that doesn't let the enemy respond.

Tis a nice day1 votes

They hate free healing. Since Soraka "heals" are more like health exchanges, they let that one through.

Partholonian1 votes

The only free heal is Nasus autoattacks. All the support heals cost mana. Usually a LOT of mana.

Ariel the Cruel1 votes

Nidalee :D

Partholonian1 votes

Her heal costs mana, it's only the cat form spells that don't.

stuartk111 votes

They actually buffed the range of his Q by 50 and increased its missile speed by the same amount, but they reverted it. Did they think that this would have made him OP?

Theorchero1 votes

{quoted}

They actually buffed the range of his Q by 50 and increased its missile speed by the same amount, but they reverted it. Did they think that this would have made him OP?

Idk why the reverted it.

{quoted}

Riot could also have it charge quicker based on CDR. So if it's a 10 second charge, max CDR will have it charge in 6 seconds.

Just an idea.

I like it tbh.

Nahara1 votes

I believe there was a change coming in that would make it so that Bard's chimes wouldn't start spawning in the enemy jungle until later in the game.

Not sure whatever happened to that, though.

Unedible1 votes

They need to change the shrines in general. Come late game, you either

A: Plop them on someone for a speed boost B: Put them down, and hope someone grabs it before the team shifts to a different location

Ain't nobody got 10 seconds late game.

FourVsFive1 votes

Just have it scale, 60,75,90,105,120 mana

NorthernDruid1 votes

Top suggestions I've come across:

W-give it %max health healing, lower the time to charge.

Passive-lower meep scaling increments to every 4th chime.

MrRazzleDazzle1 votes

What if bard could charge his shrine like Varus's R? He presses and holds W and when he releases it, he places the shrine down at full charge. (This would also help with his lackluster tickle heals late game)

Theorchero1 votes

{quoted}

What if bard could charge his shrine like Varus's R? He presses and holds W and when he releases it, he places the shrine down at full charge. (This would also help with his lackluster tickle heals late game)

Except sitting there doing nothing for 10 seconds is ridiculous.

The charge time should reduce based off rank in W.

Theorchero1 votes

Added edits to original post.

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